Rapture

The 110hp CA510 has no Rotax equivalent. It is fully water cooled, and does not require any air cooling of the heads etc. This explains the different architecture of this model.

For those that didn't make it to AusFly, here is a photo of our 110hp CA510 minutes after we opened the crate which had only arrived in Adelaide a few days before the event and we were that busy that we didn't open the crate until we had arrived at Wentworth. Luckily, it was all there and in excellent condition. The fine specimen of a man watching over it is Milton, owner of the yellow Lightning Bug who by the way is selling that Bug to help fund getting the next Bug flying with a Zonsen engine in it. The boxes that came with the engine contained the accessories that we ordered with it such as mounting rubbers, etc.

It is not certified but it is ASTM compliant and comes with the statement from Zonsen if requested. Under the MARAP framework, we will complete the installation and seek approval under the MARAP framework to maintain it as a S-LSA, allowing continued use in commercial operations, i.e for flying school duties. If other Jab owners want to do the same thing, approvals are on a one-off basis so each installation must go through the same approval process.

Having now spoken with several J160/J230 owners who have retrofitted Rotax engines to their airframes, and also having spoken with several of the individuals/teams that actually undertook the conversions, It is very interesting to note their experiences and also their aircraft’s demonstrated performance with the Rotax installed. I am not going to repeat them here as the information would be second hand, but it is motivating for us to fit and demonstrate some Zonsen engines in Jabiru airframes. To that end, we now have a J160 airframe being prepared to have the 110hp Zonsen CA510 that we took to AusFly installed. Once that combination is flying, we will be able to provide first hand performance figures for the combination. We also intend to take that aircraft on a demonstration tour to allow flying schools and Jab owners to experience the conversion for themselves. This will also build hours on the engine in real life operation that together in conjunction with other Zonsen dealers around the world, we can start building reliable data about the reliability of the engines. It’s a start…. Anyway, here’s a photo of the recipient J160 that is currently undergoing a full restoration with the necessary firewall forward and instrument panel conversion to be undertaken. Standby for further updates.

Thanks Burnie. You have hit the nail on the head with that statement. Zonsen have indicated to me that they consider the Australian market to be an important one. But as you say, consumers in Australia like to see OEM support for their products in Australia and there are certainly ways that such support can be demonstrated.

Burnie, it is not possible to give you what you want because the engine is new enough and not prolific enough to be able to furnish you with the data that you want. You are essentially seeking third party validation of quality and reliability. That data is not yet available and that has been stated already several times on this thread so continuing to ask for it is not going to change the fact that the information that you seek is not yet available. Please ask again in 2 years and we should have the independent validation that you seek. We are aware that sales will likely be slow until such validation is available. I think we probably all agree that an initiative by the manufacturer to incentivize some customers to take the engines, build time on them quickly and get the third party validation of quality, safety, reliability and customer support so that potential customers need not fear that element of the buy decision.

Zonsen have exceptional engine test facilities at their manufacturing and assembly plant in Chongqing. The majority of their engines have gone through the accelerated testing process required to obtain ASTM approval. So they’ve already essentially done your test.

Okay readers, please take a deep breath and stop bashing Zonsen simply because they are a Chinese company and PLEASE can we stay on topic about Zonsen specifically and the Zonsen products. Their factory is amazing! Immaculately clean, extremely ordered, fully automated (robots collect parts off the shelves and deliver to the assembly stations), technicians are uniformed and white coated and skilled, the quality assurance section is extremely well equipped with the technicians being skilled at what they do. On that topic, our first engine was delayed after the Zonsen QA process identified an issue with parts of our engine which were subsequently remanufactured. The QA system worked and the Zonsen desire to only send out engines that meet their stringent quality requirements was met. Their manuals were pleasantly fairly good, with some English language errors evident but feedback that I have given has been immediately addressed and they’ve sent me a new updated manual within days of me providing my feedback. With more feedback, their manuals will improve, but their first cut at them has been pretty good. We all get that hours need to be put on the engines and third party validation of the product is required in order to build a reputation. I’d love to drop 10 engines into the market here and have them fly their backsides off so that we can then point to a demonstrated history of reliability and associated product support. I reckon that is what we need, but as the distributor, I cannot wear that cost or risk. That said, there have been many sales into Europe so we should start getting more data on the success of the engines there, along with reports of first hand experience by unrelated parties. So please, back on topic and let’s stop with the generic China product bashing. Don’t tar Zonsen with that brush until there is evidence to support the tarring… or there is evidence to support a good reputation.

Believe me, I hear you. The aero division of Zonsen have been very good to deal with, but I think they are still coming to grips with Western mentality and mindset. Building a reputation needs to come from the manufacturer and there are clear metrics around what elements of a business and their product will positively enhance a reputation, particularly in the aviation sector. A demonstrated history of a reliable, safe and well supported product is critical, not just on a sample of one, but on a sample of many and over a sustained period. Distributors have the ability to support the initiatives of the manufacturers to raise the level of credibility and trust in a product, but ultimately, responsibility rests with the manufacturer to enhance their own profile.

We raised this issue with Zonsen, particularly as it relates to trying to break into a market with a new and unproven engine, combined with a new manufacturer who has yet to establish a good reputation for product quality and product support. Unfortunately, the cost is what it is. What the manufacturer needs to do is to build the reputation and the brand so that the products and product support are at least equal to or preferably exceed that of Rotax, then the $4000 price differential will be a point of difference in their favour.

The ship with our 110hp CA510 has arrived in Adelaide and we’ve been told to expect to collect our engine late this week or early next week. I’ll post pics when I can but they might be delayed due to my need to travel for a week. We (Rapture) will have a small booth at AusFly with the engine one display. Please swing past and say G’day and check it out. If you want to buy it, you can take it home from the show with you 😜

We are up against the perennial problem of importing goods that are pegged to the USD whereby the fluctuating exchange rate affects engine pricing and shipping costs. At current exchange rates, the 100hp CA500 (Rotax 912ULS equivalent) will retail at around A$31,000 including GST which comparing apples to apples is around $4,000 cheaper than the Rotax, while the 110hp CA510 has a retail of around $35,000 which is around the same price as the 100hp 912ULS, but offers another 10hp. If comparing the 80hp CA300 (Rotax 912UL equivalent) to the Jab2200, the CA300 will have price tag of around $27,500 so around $4,500 more than the Jab, but still cheaper than the Rotax. Rapture Aviation will be at AusFly and we should have our newly imported 110hp CA510 on display (it’s scheduled to arrive in Adelaide on 26 Feb). If anyone wants to take it home with them after the show, we will offer a show deal on it.

Hi Blue, Do you know what model Rotax he has in the J230? It’d probably be a bit lethargic with a 912, so I’m guessing the 914 or 915. If anyone knows the owner of the J230 with Rotax, could you possibly pm me their name or contact details?

Thanks Skippy. I’ll give them a call.

Hi JabWW, Someone on the Zenith forums has done an accurate weigh of a Rotax 912ULS with accessories and fluids and achieved the following figures. The 100hp Zonsen CA500 will be essentially identical. Components Weight, lb Engine mount 12.2 Exhaust, muffler 6.2 Exhaust, pipes 3.8 Radiator 2.4 Heater hose, throttle cable, etc. 4.8 Mounting hardware, oil cooler and tank, water cooling components, air filter, miscellaneous parts 19 Total parts 48.4 Oil Engine 0.8 gal 5.44 Oil tank 0.8 gal 5.44 Oil radiator, hoses 0.3 quarts (assumption) 0.51 Total oil 11.39 Coolant Cylinder heads, water pump, expansion tanks, coolant hose. 1.5 liters / 0.4 gallons as per Rotax installation manual. 3.3 Total coolant 3.3 Engine, dry 131.6 Total fwf, minus cowling 194.69 The prop that we will trial for the J160 conversion is the E-prop with its associated spinner which is likely to save a little weight over the Jabiru prop. The J160c owners that have done the Rotax conversion have needed a new cowl, but the weight would likely be similar to the original Jab cowl. They have all done the necessary W&B calculations that have been resolved with ballast. How much ballast I don’t know at the moment. We will likely use the same team that has already done a Rotax conversion and have the knowledge of what will be involved. An EFIS is not required but an Engine Indication System such as the GRT EIS would be useful to monitor engine parameters.