Thirsty

Yeah the amsa web site doesn't mention anything about finding the aircraft. Hopefully they'll find them and all will be well.

 

 

In that case tell me how yours goes :) But only if it's good news!

 

 

That's the one I recommended. I've just ordered one so we'll see if it's as good as it seems.

 

 

Please use the term vacated rather than clear. No confusion then. The word clear could be misconstrued as a clearance to do something, a long shot I know but in ga land the word is vacated.

 

 

Liquid motion ego 727. Has wireless, 720p at 60fps, 1080p at 30fps, has an app for smartphones so it can be controlled wirelessly. Can be bought for $150 delivered from USA or $199 locally.

 

 

Yep we do that as well.

 

 

Of course if all you want is to be an instructor in ga you still need to do a commercial license at huge cost. If casa ever change that then maybe more people will do instructing. I have no desire to do anything commercially other than instructing but theres no way I'm going to a commercial rating just for that hence I instruct in ra.

 

 

I guess for instructors to get paid well there needs to be schools around, like yours it seems, that have enough student turnover to pay them. I do it for the love of it because if I didn't, in Adelaide at least, I wouldn't do it at all!

 

I didn't expect your last sentence though, I thought there'd be heaps of instructors around willing to work full time. I wished I lived in Goulburn :)

 

 

Too true however it is written that instructing is the only "commercial" activity allowed hence money can change hands for doing that.

 

I'm of the opinion that a few cfis may well be making a living at this but there will be very few and probably no instructors making a living.

 

 

Thanks mate. I work for a CFI who makes his living out of his school. I was more interested in guys who work for someone though and still make a living at it. I know in GA most instructors are just building hours to get to an airline job but in RA that's not an option so do we all just do it for fun?

 

 

How does everyone else work out when to turn mid downwind after joining mid field xwind? I just fly for an amount of time, don't know how much I just judge it. Curious to hear what others do.

 

And cfi, no hope I'll be in tassie anytime soon, I fly jabs and no way I'll fly one over there! I do love your state though!

 

 

Timed ccts will be close enough unless there is a huge wind blowing and even then I'm only suggesting you need to time the bit after joining midfield xwind so you know when to turn mid downwind. Another tip would be instead of joining mid downwind join further to the opposite threshold end thus giving yourself more time on downwind to get everything sorted out before base.

 

Sorry cfi, just my opinion.

 

 

I agree with the others who say forget about local landmarks and fly a "general" circuit that will work anywhere. I flew to YWOL recently for the first time and landed on 16 with our approach to the airfield over the escarpment from the west and it was pretty easy. I reckon you should time yourself in your own circuit and use those timings at YWOL taking account of the local restrictions as noted in ERSA.

 

You should be turning crosswind at 700ft AGL

Mick, are you saying just at YWOL or all the time? I was taught to turn xwind at 500' AGL and that's what I teach my students. I was taught that in GA in the 80's and RA recently.

 

 

As the title suggest I'm curious if any Instructors or L2's are making a living out of RA work. Not really interested in people that have GA qualifications as well as RA.

 

I'm an instructor and L2 and I do it for the love of it but I was wondering on my way home tonight whether anyone actually does this for a crust. Seems to me from reading this forum that most do it for fun or part time or whatever.

 

 

I wasn't having a go mate just didn't want everyone to think that just because someone is in the military he is not just another person like the rest of us.

 

And as I said I wasn't having a go at SR just making a point, he could be the worlds best President for all I know.

 

 

Ditto if you ever fly up to Murray Bridge (Recreational Pilots Academy). And welcome to the site.

 

 

he is no ordinary person he is well up the military ranks and no one gets there by being a dill

Shirley you can't be serious? If you had ever been in the military you wouldn't have made that statement! I recall many, many dills that were Steve's rank (and above). And BTW, promotion to Squadron Leader (Major equivalent in the RAAF) was basically a seniority thing so long as you didn't make any really serious stuff ups.

 

I don't know SR so I'm not commenting on him in particular just the above statement in general.

 

 

Proxy faxed and thanks Andy for putting all that info in one place.

 

 

It would be so much easier if we could all sit around having a beer and actually talk about the things rather than "write" it down like this. We'd be able to understand each others points of view much easier. At least the net allows us to discuss these things in this form which is better than not discussing at all!

 

 

G'day ray, yes that's for sure, a good plane. It'll be flying again next week.

 

 

Maj, I understand what you're saying but I know this fellow very well and he is a very capable person. I didn't feel the need to monitor him nor did anyone else as he seemed to be on top of things. The two lsa aircraft I refer to are the ones I train students in and I know they both use the same amount of fuel per hour. What happened to the "missing" fuel is a mystery.

 

I think you would be right if the person involved was a different personality. I don't think we can just put a blanket over all low time pilots and treat them the same, I don't do that with students and I don't do it with anyone else either. We're all different.

 

In this case I don't think anyone except the pic did anything wrong it was just one of those things.

 

FYI, I flew with this fellow from Perth to Adelaide in a 160 and he helped me make many decisions on that trip despite the fact he is low time.

 

 

Agreed the major factor here was the different type. The major difference between the j160 he normally flies and the LSA is the fuel capacity. Consumption isn't hugely different but the capacity is. He learnt to fly in the lsa but the last, probably, 30 hours or so were in the 160.

 

I also agree about fuel planning when going places. It's very important but the beauty with the 160 is you've got 135 liters (maybe not legally) so fuel isn't that much of a problem but in the lsa it's very much an issue.

 

 

Yes the other lsa was flown by an instructor with many years experience. It wasn't his first trip away just his first trip with a group hence the peer pressure. I don't think the problem was that he didn't refuel at wentworth before the trip to mungo just that he wasn't 100% sure of how much fuel he had.

 

I don't really agree maj that we should have been looking out for him. He is a novice pilot but he is over 60 with many years of living and he is a cautious and careful pilot so it wouldn't have occurred to any of us to oversee what he was doing. I don't make a habit of checking what everyone else is up to when we go away, I tend to make sure I'm good to go and assume everyone else is doing the same.

 

 

Hi All,

 

Sorry for the late reply on this.

 

Here is what happened:

 

We flew as a group up to Wentworth from Murray Bridge and in that group there were 3 LSA-55's and all were fueled to 60 litres before we left. We flew for around 2 hours and landed in the early afternoon. We then tied down for the night and went to our motels.

 

Next morning we flew to Lake Mungo which was about 35 miles. Prior to flying out one of the LSA's refueled but the other two didn't. I guess it was thought that 36 litres would be sufficient for the flight out and back (no fuel available at Lake Mungo).

 

We got to Lake Mungo with no problems. After departing Mungo Lodge airstrip we did a scenic flight around the Walls of China (a natural feature just out of Mungo Lodge) which added around 20 minutes to our trip time.

 

It was on the way back to Wentworth (about 11 nm short of the field) that the LSA ran out of fuel. Total time flown when he ran out of fuel was about 3.8 or 3.9 which at 12lph and 60 litres should have left a good reserve.

 

As usual there were a few factors that contributed to this accident.

 

1. The pilot was low time and hadn't been away with a group before.

 

2. He usually flies a J160 with lots of fuel capacity.

 

3. The fuel tank in that LSA is fairly opaque and it is quite hard to see the fuel level at times.

 

4. The sister ship to the one that crashed landed back at Wentworth with about 10 litres of fuel remaining so we would have expected the other plane to have about the same -they both burn fuel at around 12 lph.

 

5. The pilot of the crashed LSA didn't realise the pilot of the other LSA had refueled - he was going along with the other guys and not refuelling (he thought).

 

6. You can't lock the fuel tank of the LSA so it is possible fuel was stolen over night from that plane.

 

7. There was a certain amount of peer pressure to get going and keep up with the group.

 

8. The pilot didn't fly high enough or over suitable terrain on the way back from Mungo to enable a safe landing Just In Case.

 

I'm not having a go at the pilot because this sort of thing could happen to any of us if the right circumstances arise. I'm sure he's learned a valuable lesson here and will probably never run out of fuel again. We have no idea why it ran out of fuel when it should have had some left back at Wentworth just like the other LSA.

 

Other lessons we learned from this:

 

Make sure you have an epirb! Pilot didn't take one partially because the plane he usually flies has one mounted all the time. We could talk to the pilot on the ground via mobile and even though he gave us his GPS coordinates we still couldn't find him from the air! He was in a light brown saltpan with the aircraft upside down and covered in dust and mud so it blended in perfectly.

 

For some reason only one plane heard his mayday call. He made it on unicom which we were all monitoring but he probably should have had the area frequency dialled up Just In Case.

 

Anyway, the main thing is they survived and the aircraft will be flying again next week and we all learned lots of lessons.

 

 

For those that haven't seen it yet here is what is being talked about: