Floatplane

lets just say after 35 years in the game are we/you/us surprised? nope! typical used car dealer attitude but the trouble I see is those same clowns not doing the right thing for owners who actually "pay commision" for those same guys trying to sell aircraft.

example 1 - I wanted a Citabria and asked a Melbourne Aircraft saleman to keep a look out (normal question one would think), months later after viewing some articles here I found out one owner in fact asked the very same saleman to sell his plane (and yes, it fitted into my price range) but did I hear from this salesman? NO! he really wanted to sell, still is I think!

example 2 - Silly mistake on my part, but I told a Gold Coast saleman how much I was prepared to spend, funny how an aircraft turned up right at the max limit and only after dragging info from him did I find out he suddenly forgot to add GST, engine was out of hours and it needed spars repairs (basically he didn't tell the truth, again surprised? yes this time, but not second time round)

One wonders why they are having a tough time, personally go OS and get it yourself via a professional import company, pay about the same end of day by the time you get export CofA, freight etc and another Oz CofA, but the a/c would be 10 times better.

Sorry but nothing changes much and too those rare honest salesman, sorry.

FP

Hi there,

Thanks anyway but after witnessing yet another sales rip off from a guy in the Gold Coast, I purchased another kit, way safer!

Regards

FP

You'll see trust me, it's unfortunately called "human nature" just a quick glance you'll have damages for "loss of income" from wheel operator, another could be "stress" from the poor soles (patrons) sitting up there for hours wondering!

Sorry, seen all this before unfortunately

FP

No one was killed or injured here FP, so the lawyers would be left with pain and suffering, hard going for them.

Ok, but listed in NAIPS? Interesting but as you said, it's users responsibility which goes without saying really to any aerodrome be it ALA or otherwise.

FP

Isaac, post: 179973"]FP incorrect , read my post #60:

Old Bar is an ALA (Aeroplane Landing Area) which is actually Heritage Listed, no notams are issued. I have used it, it is a great strip, but many pilots land too far in. Leaving a go around till late is problematic.

On any ALA the pilot is responsible to ensure:

He has permission to use the strip

The strip is safe to use

The strip is adequate for the performance of the aircraft he intends to use

The effect of any obstructions in terms of clearance and displaced threshold and the impact of this on his aircrafts ability to meet the performance requirements to use the strip safely.

Down wind is pure speculation. Old Bar is a short grass strip to people used to landing on longer strips. It was a late go around from a baulked landing, that is why he was low. If he had stayed on the centre line he would have missed the Ferris Wheel, and correct FP the PIC is ultimately responsible.

It was a mistake made my many, this is NOT a blame session, this should be a learning session ... make your go around decisions early.

David

My advice is get an aviation lawyer ready, accidents like this bring out law suits. When public are involved unfortunately and this sort of accident will bring $$$$$ chasers out. Flying is fun, but

FP

Until we know the actual details this can only be described as a very unfortunate if spectacular accident. I know Paul and he is a very conscientious and safety orientated pilot. He is a family man and was very upset at the fact that there were children involved. I don't think that speculation as to what he should have done or what he did wrong is helpful. I am sure it will take him some time to get though this trauma and sincerely hope that this does not dampen his love of flying.

I totally agree, and just checked Old Bar NOTAMS and guess what? There are none! So it's either the local councils fault for not notifying CASA or CASA's fault for not informing pilots "but" without stating the obvious not many pilots read them!

Having said that, my guess is he attempted a downwind landing (due to obstacle) and passenger said on TV last night "we were going around after an attempted landing and it wouldn't climb" ---- guys, it's a typical downwind landing mistake and probably created due to that stupid wheel being placed at the end of an ALA. Pilot error? Most probably because end of the day the PIC is totally responsible for making sure a/c and conditions are safe to operate. Unfortunately i hope he doesn't get a letter in the mail from a lawyer!

Sad but blo-dy glad "no one was hurt"

FP

Plane hits Ferris Wheel at end of runway. Does anyone else think that when working out the layout of the Fair you would think to yourself, ferris wheel end of runway bad idea.Anyway hope all are ok...... If you have not seen the pics or news the plane is stuck just near the top of ride as well as people stuck on the ride.

 

Jim

Hi all,

Decided not to proceed for various reasons, instead building another S7 on floats. Would like to thank everyone for their input, was absolutely fantastic getting great advice from the experts.

Regards

FP

Hi and many thanks for your thread. Unfortunately it's not my choice, it's the school who will be operating it "but" if DJP was for sale and similar (no CSU) then I would definitely have my say. I've asked the question, it's not for sale least at my price anyway but thanks for the heads up, very much appreciated.

Rgs

FP

If I were in the market for a Citabria or Decathlon I'd definitely go with a Decathlon. I've got a little bit of time in Citabria's and flown a Decathlon twice (once with DJP in his). Fly them one after another and you won't need any more convincing.If DJP is selling his I can testify it is a very tidy aircraft in fine condition and flew very nicely... having said that we didn't go upside down.

 

[ATTACH=full]15154[/ATTACH]

Many thanks Nev

That's some great info,

The machine I'm seeking is mainly for tailwheel endo's with the odd limited aero. The school really hasn't aero end's in mind 'but' could be available however. Why front seat AD re fuel?

Rgs

FP

Think there is a recommended max speed for "flick" or Snap" rolls. The problem is fuel tank fuel surge loads and there is an AD on the front seat.Make sure that any plane from the USA has been removed from the register there, and you have a record of it.

Check the U/C mount bolts regularly on a rough strip.. I personally found the CS prop on the Decathlon a nuisance as it surged on the one I flew, and I don't view them as a serious inverted performer so question the need for a motor with the inverted oil system. ( depends on your needs).

 

The ailerons are "frieze"design and out of spin aileron is not a good idea for spin entry. (as long as you know).

 

I don't think they are for ham fisted pilots. stressed only slightly above a "utility" plane. and if the drome has debris around check the exposed trim wires around the tailplane regularly.

 

These are just a few thing that come to mind. Having said that I was probably as attached to mine as any plane I have been associated with. Nev

Thanks DJP

I totally agree about export CofA, been there done that before. I really don't mind which a/c as it's for a school and have known operator for over 20 years so not too worried. If I can get the Decathlon same price then I'm easy.

Regards

FP

An Export CofA has nought to do with the condition of an aeroplane. In any case, not required for a Citabria being imported.And, another thing, the Citabria has a limit of 5 g so definitely limited aerobatics. Approved for snap rolls however thats well known to cause structural problems. The Decathlon is a lot beefier with an engine that can run inverted. Not too many fixed pitch Decathlons around although there are 4 at Moorabbin (2 for sale). The 7KCAB is a Citabria from the mid-70s with inverted systems - forerunner of the 8KCAB Decathlon - some in Australia.

No mate, school requested Citabria however I reckon if it hasn't a CSU it'll be fine. Tx for the thought though :-)

Regards

FP

Are you looking at the Decathlon as well? Same plane , bigger engine. nev

Hi Mal,

Thanks mate, I've just sent off email asking for info. I've shipped from the US and Canada before, suspect procedures same. It's the new CofA that concerns me though, because getting an export CofA doesn't always resemble the true condition until checked here.

Any ideas?

Rgs

FP

There's one for sale in NZ. $NZ75,000, so take 20% off that. Only 60 hours since rebuild. Would have to ship it (bit too far to ferry), and import duty would probably applywww.trademe.co.nz/motors/aircraft/aircraft/auction-407446919.htm

 

Mal.

Thanks OMU,

Actually want to purchase one not hire it but appreciate your input buddy

Rgs

FP

Wanting to purchase a Citabria for tailwheel and limited aeros, must be in VGC, all AD's done

PM me

Rgs

FP

Original post is nearly 12 months ago, I think he is in another country and the whole point is he screwed up and lived to tell the story and had the guts to tell it here so others can learn. No one made excuses for his actionsFloatplane Im not sure where you get the idea RAA pilots cant read NOTAMS, or that GA pilots play by the rules more than RA and as for poor radio calls and techniques this is evenly spread accross licence types even RPT.

GA training isnt nearly as "strict" as many in GA profess and currency has far more to do with it. IFR pilots should make less mistakes, theyve done many more hours and most likely more current but they were a low hour punter once too.

 

There are some incredibly stupid things done by pilots from both camps in most instances they live and sometimes realise what they did wrong and relay thier experiences to others.

FP

The RFDS do jobs in Scotland too? I need to donate more money.

Many GA pilots have taken similar dangerous actions it is not confined to Rec Pilots.Alan.

frankmcm, you're right about one thing....It was a stupid thing to do and you should be more careful in future or stay on the ground.

I flew the Air Ambulance (RFDS) around Oz, we operate in & out of strips day & night in all sorts of weather right down to the minim cloud base - we fly into the same airstrips " you do" you were putting "others in serious danger"

Glad you lived through this, be mindful there wasn't a Super Kingair carrying patients needing medical help coming at you! Your playing a very serious game and wonder why Rec Pilots get a bad name!

FP

Good move! Least costs are way cheaper :-)

I'm considering one that's all.

Rgs

FP

My Son-in-law bought the Morgan Sierra which I share the use of, so I sold the Supa Pup.Alan Marriette.

Just asking, but why did you sell it?

Rgs

FP

My Supa Pup 4 is for sale, see the Classified ads under Aircraft. Alan.

Sadly yes,

Just got back from Alaska where there are few amphibs about - because the insurance is around double the float planes I was told. And that's because of the reason you mention....

Yes and no, doubles any water aircraft, especially amphibs! Why? They've had a spate of LDG Gear 'down' issues when water landing - whoops

Rgs

FP

I heard the insurance price doubles for amphibs.

Perhaps speak to Gippsland Airvan folk who are now also working on a variation of the Nomad? Much cheaper than a Caravan and seems a fine machine.MAF at Coldstream have been palying with an Airvan in recent months.

 

kaz

It was ALLIANZ - His premium was $1K more than mine on $70K (same as mine) though.Cheers

Dexter

I'm waiting for quote so we'll see what happens, if need be though I'm getting insurance OS, and yes connected here in OZ :thumb_up: they can't be any worse than Q-- thats for sure!

FP

Totally agree, I've owed 2, on my third and trust me hire if you can because buying for that sort of job will break your budget for sure.

Rgs

FP

If you are looking to hire, Broome aviation would make sense. The C208 Caravan will give 12 seats but you will need a fair bit of water to get off, they are not best performing amphibian when compared to say a single Otter. If you want to purchase, you are talking lots of $$$$$$$$$, turbines are expensive. I don't know of any 8 seat piston amphibs out there in Ozz.

The single turbine Otter is a spectacular performer on floats, they leave the C208 behind in the spray, however, the C208 is a very fine aircraft. I guess the C208 is a lot less $$$ because we don't see many single Otters out here, whereas in Canada the Otters outnumber the C208s significantly.

 

David