Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by 104chocks

    • ""The death has occurred of an overseas tourist whilst on a TIF. (If I were a coroner that would be raising a few question marks for a start)
    • The school involved ADVERTISED "Scenic TIFs". (The plot thickens)
    • A coroner WILL get involved.
    • I'm willing to bet someone will get sued.""




    All good points - this double fatal gyrocopter accident is of interest outside of Australia - I understand the passenger was from Singapore - the Singapore embassy will have an eye on the progress of the investigation and any subsequent liability issues. CASA will be under some scrutiny from home and abroad and will likely be leaning on ASRA to raise standards.



  1. ""No more speculating needed as to the cause, onboard gopro with last 10 mins of flite, confirmed findings.""


    Sounds like its a done deal.


    Have you had the results of the other areas of the investigation - could these have some bearing on this gyro accident as well , for example - toxicology, autopsy, metallurgy, etc etc.


    The Coroner's report will bring these and other lines of thought into consideration too.


    Here is a link to a recent Coroners report ( PDF ) for a fatal gyrocoptr accident - 33 pages with input from CASA, ATSB, State Police, ASRA and Health n Safety - it's an interesting read and raises some concern over which agency was the lead investigator too.









  2. The gyro was designed by Advanced Kinetics.


    Their website has gone, out of business.


    The gyro appears to incorporate a trike hull.


    By using The Way Back Machine we can see website as it was




    Facts can be hard to come by - how many were ever built, completed and registered ?


    I know of two ( G-511 and G-611 ) but have heard suggestions of maybe half a dozen or so.


    The Coroners report may cover some of this background.



  3. The Queensland Coroner published a report in December 2013 into a fatal gyrocopter ground accident that took place in March 2011.


    The report is comprehensive and well worth a read as it covers numerous safety issues.



    The report raises concerns relating to training, documentation, flight instruction, mustering operations and the relationship between CASA, ASRA, ATSB, local Police and Health and Safety officers and who was going to investigate this accident.


    A PDF of the Coroners report can be accessed via







    • Informative 4
  4. ""Any additional info................


    We had a recent gyro incident here in the North ( not sure if RAA rego)....... From what I've heard the two seat Magni type with two on board (914) failed to maintain altitude in a mountainous area due to possible severe down air, and ended up in the trees, with the pilot breaking a leg. Required rescue by authorities. Machine written off, pilot experienced""


    If registered it will be with ASRA, but some bypass this and operate unregistered.


    Gyro accident data only makes it into the public domain via news reports, these can be very brief and less than accurate.


    ASRA prefer to publish no public summary info.


    If any one can basic details for the incident mentioned above, ie date and location or provide a news link then I'll add it to the Blog




    The Blog listing is certainly less than complete.







  5. Hi Jim,


    Your comments were at the start of my post as this was the part of this thread I was replying to.


    You ask about shortcomings of this aircraft - the major one being it was not airworthy


    3.3 There were no records that would indicate a test flight program had been properly


    performed or completed. As a consequence the gyrocopter could not be


    considered airworthy......................


    An aircraft that could not be considered airworthy should remain on the ground, it is by definition not fit to fly.


    Few UFO's have been built but several have had fatal accidents.







  6. ""The report doesn't attribute blame to the aircraft.""


    The report identifies shortcomings with the gyro, not airworthy, the licence of the PIC in terms of instructing, and failure to comply with CAA rules


    considered airworthy


    Here are the conclusions from the report


    3. Conclusions


    3.1 The possibility of any pre-existing airframe or engine defect that could have


    contributed to the accident was eliminated as far as practicable by the safety




    3.2 The carriage of a container of sand in the nose of the aircraft invalidated the Flight




    3.3 There were no records that would indicate a test flight program had been properly


    performed or completed. As a consequence the gyrocopter could not be


    considered airworthy and a passenger should not have been carried until 10 hours


    of test flying had been completed and recorded.


    3.4 The pilot in command was type rated on the type of aircraft but not as an


    instructor. The flight therefore, should not have been conducted for the purpose


    of flight instruction.


    3.5 The owner suffered a recent TIA and had a heart-related medical history. This


    history increased the likelihood of the owner suffering an incapacitating medical


    event such as another heart attack or TIA.


    3.6 A handling error by the owner probably resulted in a bunt-over/PPO from which


    the gyrocopter could not be recovered. The handling error could have been


    caused by the owner suffering a medical event.


    3.7 The bunt-over/PPO would have resulted in the gyrocopter’s rotor disc being


    subjected to zero or negative G, directly contributing to departure from controlled




    3.8 The aircraft’s impact with the ground was not survivable.


    3.9 It is considered that if Civil Aviation Rules had been complied with, the accident


    would not have occurred.





  7. Hi Brent - Bentrotor,


    ""This report had some details that you should not have made public.""


    ASRA published that report on their forum, in a public part of their forum. ASRA uploaded it and ASRA published it. A Google search for "Kruza" found it.


    I provided a link to this ASRA published report - that's it.


    I've since been told that it was published in public in error by ASRA - you may wish to ask ASRA how this error came about.


    You will notice I request summary reports.


    The key question is why summary report are not placed into the public domain - why not do so - your colleagues in New Zealand do, in the UK do, in the USA do, in South Africa do, in Poland do, in German do, in Spain do - ASRA is way off the pace in this regard.


    Brent you have participated in the UFO thread over on the other forum - the key part of that thread is an informative report published into the public domain by the New Zealand CAA into a fatal UFO accident - the sad part of that thread is that no information has been published into the public domain by ASRA for a fatal UFO accident in Australia. Two countries, two fatals with the same rare type of gyro - two completely different approaches to investigation and publication - bizarre. One open and transparent - the other a dark void.


    Imagine what might be learned if both reports were in the public domain - similarities, overlap, concerns, trends, patterns. With only one report the full possibility to learn is restricted. UFO gyros are not confined to Australia - share what you know, it may help pilots/potential owners elsewhere or those in Australia considering this design.


    The key question here is why can the NZCAA investigate and publish such excellent quality material for a fatal UFO gyro crash when your colleagues in Australia can't - should ASRA raise their game to a higher standard - I'd say "yes" and I encourage them to do so.


    Here is a link to the UFO Helithruster thread - it is an interesting read for sure particularly when ASRA say they have difficulty in locating the report...."......the official report might not be able to be found that easily."









  8. Russ - excellent - all they have to do is "cut n paste" a brief summary ( ie I'm not suggesting publishing a multi page doc - a synopsis - facts and conclusion would be fine ) and post it on the public side of the ASRA forum - it is really not a hard task at all.


    There is no reason it can't be done.


    If they could do that say twice a year ( ie covering the previous six months ) then anybody in Australia, anybody interested in aviation, anybody considering getting into gyros or anybody anywhere in a gyro community around the World could read that data. At the moment it's Member only - ie no public dissemination.


    Accident/incident summary data is shared in other countries, no membership is required for flight safety related data - it's a public service.


    Try this as a template ( from little New Zealand ) - hopefully this is within the capability of ASRA.




    Here's a summary from Australia - take a look - neat brief and concise and published in the public domain for all to read




    The downside is that it was published in 1990 - ATSB published such reports up to 1996/1997 - since then the subject of gyrocopter accident summary reports has travelled back in the information Dark Ages - is this progress - is it fit for the 21st C.


    Similar reports are put into the public domain in the UK, USA, South Africa, Poland, Germany, Canada, Spain, France but oddly not in Australia - be great if you could join in too.







  9. Hi


    New Zealand coroners court sitting today into the 2009 fatal crash of gyrocopter UFO Helithruster ZK-RAZ


    A NZCAA spokesman said ".....inherent instability in the aircraft".


    more here on todays news link below




    You can read the official NZCAA report here ( published earlier )




    Not the most successful gyro type.







  10. ""......let's wait for the facts.""


    Russ I suspect it will be a very very long wait as ASRA have published no incident / accident summary data in the public domain since taking over this aspect from ATSB in 96/97.


    Brief news reports and forum dialogue is about as good as it gets.


    A recent gyro incident summary can be found here




    For Raaus fans a number of recent light /sport / UL / micro incident reports can be found here ( Shadow, CT2, Quik, Jabiru etc )




    Begs the question why no dissemination down under.







  11. Hi Russ


    ""Regrettably there were 2 gyro mishaps within the space of a week or 2, i'm positively sure the FNQ was indeed unlicenced/unreg/untrained, my grapevine source appears to have mistaken that for the incident we are talking about here.


    Hope this helps clear matters............russ""


    Can you add any more brief details of the two incidents you refer too?


    I'm aware of the following but maybe you know of another


    28th June near Dakenba - the incident at the start of this thread - gyro type unknown


    16th June at Gunnedah, NSW - Xenon emergency landing during take off - media reports refer to a "cable malfunction".


    Maybe neither of the above involved an "unlicenced/unreg/untrained" -was there a third incident


    Any clarity or factual or additional information you can add would be welcome - thank you.









  12. Hi Rick_P


    Thanks for the update about the pilot, good to hear he is making progress.


    Interesting to hear about the licence, training and registration - this is at odds with what Graeme the ASRA Board Member suggested in his earlier post


    ""Just out of curiosity, would RAA be required to investigate and report on an ultralight accident if the pilot did not have a licence (therefor not a member of RAA) and the ultralight was unregister and the idiot did not kill himself or injure another person?




    A factual summary report would be good.









  13. Hi Maj


    ATSB do publish reports into accidents/incidents with helicopters - for example two such reports are listed on the recent link below




    ATSB ceased publishing gyrocopter accident reports in 1997 ( pre 1997 reports can still be found on ATSB ) when CASA passed responsibility for gyros to ASRA - in the intervening 17 years ASRA has not put any such summary reports into the public domain - that's a information black out for sure - worrying.







  14. ""so i'm told ( grapevine )..............ASRA folks will be onto it as should be. Any incidences involving gyros they take reeel serious. A number of gyro incidences over the yrs are from unlicensed / unreg / untrained pilots.............this scinareo has to stop.""


    I wish the pilot a speedy recovery. Unfortunately ASRA do not publish any summary of accidents in the public domain, no accident stats / trends/ cuases are public, it's a data void.


    My own listing is here









  15. Hi


    I can point you to two Coroners Reports - both from 2004 ( almost 10 years ago ) - both relate to fatal gyrocopter accidents in Australia.


    One deals with a hub bar failure - this accident led to a significant ATSB report into hub bar failures.


    The second deals with a fatal accident of a brand new gyro being flown home by the customer.


    Both reports contain some strong comments about CASA and ASRA.


    Use the link below and scroll down to 2004 to finds links to the two coroner reports.




    If you know of any other published coroner reports relating to gyros then please let me know and I'll add them to the Blog - thanks





  • Create New...