Spriteah

I nearly missed my renewal date as they do not appear to send out any reminders.

Make sure the office has upto date details.

Most decisions the board make on behalf of the organisation. There was consultation on the magazine issue but it was a No brainer. The loss of the printed version was dragging members funds out of the bank.

Magazine advertising income did not go to RAAus and we couldn't find a cheaper supplier.

Circulation has increased under the electronic version and that will likely lead to increased membership into the future.

Be the glass half full. Get out flying.

There is a lot of "should" mentioned. I would like to see some hard data.

Yes. But it is secret.

Keithlog into your RAAus account on the RAA.asn.au website, look under governance then reports and you'll see that a six month finance report as at the end of December 2015 was provided. I know its 5 months old and a new one is due shortly....but its not overdue...so don't understand your issues. Not going to repost it here, everyone who is a member has online access to it if they need to

 

Andy

Of course some of the members here cannot do that Andy. And I use the term members in relation to the forums as some are not members of RAAus but they feel they have a voice as to how it should be run.

Jim you just did, when you were treasurer I asked you about the drop in members and you told me that the RAA was travelling ok it was only 100 members lost and there was nothing to worry about.Now you're saying the RAA was coasting along for the last few years waiting for the board to sort itself out and the new members will come rolling in and again I have nothing to worry about.

 

I'm just wondering how this will happen? Is there a specific plan that the board has been sitting on for the last few years?

Isn't that my point though? Expecting the same people to act differently due to a modified structure is the high of self delusion.Having a former board member publicly admitting that the board purposely mismanaged the RAA into difficulties to allow a faction of the board to gain further control doesn't concern you at all.

 

Ok whatever

 

Are you still a financial member Facehunter?

The idea that someone will get back into flying because the RAA is sucking less is an optimistic assumption if ever I heard one. Especially, when you have the most of the same people running the show.But happy days!

And its also not supposed to be about 'its better than we have even though its not what we would/should have'The fact that there will be a 4.1 should in my opinion not in any way allow through in 4.0 new regulation, cost and bureaucracy that is not supported by a risk based assessment.

 

Loath to tie this to the argument that the Constitution as presented is not the best but its better and we need to move forward ... but the comparison might be made.

 

have fun on the briefing ... and FYI your notes from members on areas to explain MIGHT have been a touch more timely and complete IF the draft had been released to members for comment ... just saying

With due respect to all, this debate is getting way off the mark. Linking it to the proposed constitutional changes is really a bridge too far.May I ask everybody to look at the ACTUAL role that CASA imposes on all SASA organisations (the bolding is mine):

 

Australian sport aviation operates under self-administration. This means that CASA sets the regulations and then through its dedicated self-administering sport aviation office (SASAO) works in close cooperation with established recreational aviation administration organisations (RAAOs), to make sure the regulations are applied and enforced. The RAAOs provide CASA with specialist knowledge of, and insight into, the sport aviation industry.

 

 

 

 

 

The Sport Aviation Self Administration Handbook 2010 provides further detail of CASA’s expectations for RAAOs and their board members in ensuring that self-administration is providing a safe environment for sport aviators, as well as for other airspace users and people and property on the ground.

 

 

 

 

 

RAAOs are required to meet performance standards and undergo surveillance events (audits). The organisations must continually assure CASA that they are providing appropriate oversight of their sport aviation activities and managing risks.

 

Anybody who has had to deal with CASA directly, knows that it can be dictatorial, unpredictable and sometimes downright vindictive in the way it approaches the 'industry'. The Forsyth Review highlighted this concern that was - and remains - an endemic problem for everybody under its jurisdiction - which means, anybody who flies anything (including drones flown using your iPhone.. Kites may be excepted). Ask any engineer who has worked under the CAR regime, or now works as a Part 21M engineer, about dealing with CASA.

 

In order to gain more 'freedom' to just fly our aircraft around, blaming RAA (or SAA, HGFA or GFA) is tilting at the wrong windmills. Whilst ever CASA is THE 'authority' with the power, we are stuck with it. If you want change, then get POLITICAL, lobby for exception - rather than exemption - from CASA authority, to be recognised in Federal legislation. Good luck with that. I'll happily join with anybody in pushing for it, but I will not expect to be successful. Once Federal legislation is invoked, removing it is historically almost never successful.

 

If RAA had invested, years ago, an IT-based on-line system for reporting and recording maintenance compliance, these audits would not be required - other than perhaps to prove that the self-reporting was accurate and true. CAR 35 and Part 21M engineers are subject to CASA audits, about every 2 years; it takes weeks to ensure that every piece of paperwork is 100% in order, and sometimes days to undergo the audit. What does it take to photocopy your log books and post that off? A couple of hours?

 

Random audits of many aspects of our lives is a fact of life. Have you ever looked at the powers of the ATO to audit your financial records? It exceeds most Police powers!. If you can't produce every bit of paper for the last 7 years - you can be in deep cacky. Have you never been pulled off the road for an RBT? If you hold a gun licence, you WILL be visited by the Police for an inspection of your storage facilities and the fact that all your guns are securely in that storage facility, with the bolts and ammunition in a separate locked facility, and they don't make appointments. OHS inspectors can descend on your workplace at any time - and I happen to know of one case where this happened and the builder of crew (house-building) was charged for not having provided safe seats for smoko- they were sitting on their eskies - and several were charged with having no record of their passengers travelling in their registered vehicle to the workplace. If you are an owner-builder knocking up a shed - you are not immune to inspections.

 

It is entirely possible - I completely accept that - that these RAA audits are not being handled in the best possible way. I believe that RAA is coming from so far behind the 8-ball in regard to its systems - and that is a legacy of years of ridiculously / scandalously poor administration - that it has to adopt an inefficient methodology to accomplish this. It will take quite a lot of investment in systems development to improve that situation.

 

I would suggest, that these audits are a response BY RAA to keep RAA members protected from worse consequences, should CASA determine - arbitrarily as CASA does - that there is a 'safety' issue they decide to address. CASA is the master of inventing ways to augment its authority and by that, improve its intervention in matter of aviating - thus increasing de facto its powers and staff required to implement its powers.

 

If you are really, really incensed by this action by RAA, then just possibly, you are participating in the wrong sport. Try rock fishing - it has less intervention. You have a statistically greater chance of being killed, but it's your choice.

The RAA registry audit debacle resulted in 300+ being struck off the registry. That's a guess as no one from the RAA has ever told the members how many aircraft where lost

Hope that makes sense. Jim T.

So 'move on' leaving 1 member with an unregistered plane after 20 months is an acceptable outcome in a member organisation?1 member without service doesn't matter so long as the other 9,999 are ok?

I am aware that pissed off customers will never like you ... but if I work thorugh their issues and give them what is acceptable and possible at least I have done the best ... RAAus do not seem to get that part of 'customer' service

I believe this request for compliance is a forerunner to the introduction of the Ops / Tech manual which is rumoured to contain stringent compliance demands backed by disciplinary actions and or fines, suspensions or deregistration for non compliance. We currently have everything you mentioned except fines. I very much doubt RAAus will introduce fines. This document is shrouded in secrecy and a major component to its implementation is the first move to Company Limited Liability status. What secrecy? Tech and Flying instructors across the nation have viewed and commented on the documents. So have the board members, just rubbish. The main reason for putting this in place is the reduced number on the board so that the no votes are done away with. Name one resolution that was blocked by majority of the board in the last three years.It seems the RAA is to become the enforcer. ie to take over CASA's ( Coots Against Small Aeroplanes) role.

It is imperitive that the introduction of this Constitutional change is slowed down so that the full impact of it and the updated Ops / Tech manuals is fully understood by the membership before its put in stone. Well you and you supporters failed in this already as the vote has been and gone with overall support of the members. CASA can stop RAAUS from flying at anytime. It is therefore the duty of the board and CEO to ensure this never happens.

 

I urge every member to vote and in the interests of fairness vote NO to slow down this process so that nothing is done that could be detrimental or costly to members.

 

The RAA is supposed to be a members association whose charter is to represent it's members not the regulator.

 

If this is allowed to continue we are going to need a members association to represent us against our existing RAA association.

 

Somewhere along the way with the changes of CEO's etc the focus on our members rights has shifted to a focus on heavy handed policing of what the members are doing. Name one occasion where there was heavy handed policing handed out by RAAus or its employees.

 

If these changes in total are adopted it is going to be costly to our members. AUF/RAAus was introduced as a low cost, minimum regulation form of recreational flying which it appears may be a thing of the past. AUF originally you could only fly upto 500 ft and not cross a road. Are they the days you long for? If so find a mates paddock or buy one yourself. Get a scout and cut loose. Hopefully the neighbours won't dob you in.

The sky is literally the limit for our great organisation. Your staff and volunteer board, flight schools and many others work tirelessly for you. Stop throwing rocks and join in the fun. If you ever want to help and have a skill set you can offer then make yourself known. Intervene when you see members doing the wrong thing!

I hope you get on board Bill. Apologies if you thought I was attacking you. All those that know me realise I work for the good and future sustainability of the organisation. The past is exactly that. The future is what we, the members make it.

Jim T

I'm excited where our Organisation might now go.

For those that focus on membership numbers declining as a bad thing then I think in the next 18 months you will see a change. RAAUS has intentionally not promoted for membership because of the bad state its office was in. Most systems are now in place to expand. Registrations and membership systems are mostly automated. Rules are being followed. A Professional board to oversee. Things are looking up.

Jim.

Could we say you were at wits end and let give this a go, would that be an appropriate statement to cover the situation?KP.

Or we could do as other organisations do and elect a board to run the business.

OK sorry, my fault, was just skimming; I'm working on a project.

So Don, you don't think that we'll go back to the performance of the old days..Re my registration renewal recently which I referred to in my previous post - RAA failed to notify me that it was due for renewal. If not for me following up with the Office I would have been unregistered and unable to partake in a fly away the next weekend.

I am also due for a Biannual Review in a few days and have not been advised of this either- does any of this seem familiar to the performance of the old days?.

 

I was tied up in the backlog of registrations during the days of the the audits - unregistered for a time.

 

All that nonsense about retrospectively putting extra placards on aircraft that were factory built to the standards required of the day.

 

What about the aircraft that are in limbo over ongoing airworthiness/registration issues?.

 

How about the ongoing Jabiru fiasco and RAA's roll. Owners have been thrown under a bus. (Members Association my ****)

 

What about the accountability of the board when it was found we were running in the red.

 

What about the increase in fees for a Pilot Certificate and for registration - will it never end.

 

Who's happy with the outcome of the magazine issue?

 

What about a CEO who keeps bleeting about how good things are going since he got the job when the rank and file like myself experience a different RAA.

 

Changing the Constitution is purely cosmetic, the problems of the past should have been picked up by those in charge and rectified - that was their job!!

 

And another thing - who said we need a weight increase, all I see is an organisation that wants to take over as many categories of aircraft it can while not catering for those already on the register.

 

For all the good intentions of those in charge and those on the board, all we've ended up with has been a torrid few years of seemingly rudderless rule by an ever demanding master.

 

And the worst problem of all is that it has forsaken it's existing and shrinking membership.

 

Cheers,

 

Have a nice day.

You bitch and sook about what you don't get. Then you bitch and sook when RAAUS tries to give you more!!!!! You are high maintenance.

Daily inspection is recorded on a MR, with no MR requirement there is no requirement to record a daily/ or preflight inspection.Other then for multiple pilot useage/training, I don't see any point in recording useless information.

Ladies and Gents,

I have decided to come out of the woodwork and make a few comments.

Firstly for those of you who don’t know me I am a past board member. I served from 2013 to 2015. I was on the Executive in that time as Treasurer. I witnessed a change of 4 presidents in that short time period. I chose not to re-run and make way for new talent at the last election because I was satisfied the Association was in great hands being guided by Michael Linke, Michael Monck and Tony King. My view has not changed and I am still very comfortable with the current management of RAAus.

I was an advocate for change. The poor governance, pathetic infighting, bullying and systemic self- serving amazed me. Not to mention total disregard for process, leaching money to poor decisions due to incompetence and the reality that you don’t know what you don’t know. The board was being run by a bunch of flight school instructors, many who lacked the skills required to oversee a large organization. Yes they meant well but they were not equipped to manage 3 million dollars turnover and near 10’000 members. The proof of this was the dismal mismanagement of the office which CASA then used to suspend privileges. And the irony is not lost that those from CASA were also part of the problem!

At the heart of the problem is the constitution. We started as a club. Model rules were adapted. We grew and grew. We got to big too quick. Many organizations then collapse. RAAus didn’t but that was due to good luck. We were lucky to get good guidance when we needed it to survive and are now well on the way to being an industry leader. The constitution will cement this good luck into good practices.

We need to continually evolve. The proposed constitution is good and will suit our Association into the future. I urge you to vote yes. Is it perfect, of course not. Ten different people in a room could debate pros and cons forever. But it is a great step forward. It can be altered into the future. I am sure some sections that the majority think are good now might be found to be not so good. They can be altered.

I urge all members to vote. I will vote yes and I encourage others to vote the same as I truly believe this is a great step going forward.

I have encourage some long time board members to get out of the way and let the organization move forward. Regional representation is a joke in this day and age. It costs members money and gives no benefit.

In response to the email circulating from Rod Birrell I personally like Rod and fully acknowledge he has done a lot for the RAAus movement over the years. I am disappointed that a current board member would send out miss-information. I urge all members to consider what motivation the email has been written for? If these are his concerns why were they not adequately raised during the development process? I would suggest there may be a self-serving agenda which has no place in our organization.

Yours in Safe Aviation,

Jim Tatlock.

Yeah wishful thinking, it's been going on for years if people cannot learn from that then so be it. Do you really think that those 3 people had no idea that flying in those conditions has killed a lot of people? and that no one had explained that to them? What is that saying? there are no new ways to kill yourself in a aeroplane.

Jim.

Human factors, education is the ONLY thing that can stop it!

Jim.

Is EHS the aircraft Robbo?

"Pilot dies bravely avoiding crowded restaurant"

That is problematic, since this form of aircraft exists due to an arrangement where RAA is seen to control it by self regulation.I've wrestled with this myself in the past, but it seems that the self regulator will carry the legal responsibility if there is a lawsuit.

That's where a compliance and enforcement section manned by volunteers comes in.

This isn't really the thread for this discussion.

Jim.