KING

5 hours ago, kgwilson said:

It was part of the PPL syllabus when I learned to fly but not climbing stalls other than power and wing drop. The C150 dropped the left wing quite quickly with about 1700rpm & full up elevator.

 

My aircraft won't drop a wing at all & will fly right through the stall and then just descend at idle and up to altitude level rpm. I need to have about 2000rpm with full up elevator & then kick the rudder full over to make it drop a wing which it does quite violently going almost vertically towards terra firma.

Like you Stalling and Spinning were part of the PPL syllabus in the UK [thirty+ years ago], however the problem came when the US statistics showed that more people were dying in spin training than actual accidental spins. Power on stalls in the climb can lead to violent wing drops and therefore [bearing in mind many RAA training types aren't spin rated] it seems it is impossible to do anything but thoroughly brief around scenarios that might lead to stalls in the climb, and what to do if God forbid a low hour/non-aerobatic pilot get themselves into that position.

For what it's worth my advice to new pilots is to go and do an unusual attitudes/upset recovery course after initial training with an instructor who specialises in that. An FI with limited experience in these matters is more likely to cause problems than solve them IMHO.

1 hour ago, F10 said:

Yes! In addition, what is the effect of load factor? In a level 60 deg AoB steep turn, you need to hold 2g. To see the load factor effect, take the square root of your 2g load factor (1.4) and multiply 50 Kts Vref by 1.4, that gives you 70 Kts!! So wanging around in tight orbits…better bump up the safety speed! This is an exponential effect. A 4g turn will double your aircraft’s stall speed.

Totally agree. The question was about approach speed only, and my old rule of thumb works well. However nothing wrong with adding another 10-20% on [as long as you aren't getting near structural limits like Vfe and runway length isn't a problem]. For the avoidance of doubt ANY turns on the glideslope should be gentle, coordinated ones and you are 100% right to bring this up.

On 16/11/2024 at 8:52 PM, BrendAn said:

SPECIFICATIONS:

• Wingspan: 7.92 m (26 ft)
• Length: 6.70 m (22 ft)
• Height (tricycle undercarriage): 2 m (6 ft 6 in)
• Wing area: 10.26 m² (110.5 sq ft)
• Cruising speed at sea level: 241 km/h (150 mph)
• Manoeuvring speed: 167 km/h (106 mph)
• Stalling speed, clean: 56 km/h (35 mph)
• Stalling speed, with flaps: 50 km/h (31 mph)
• Service ceiling: 3,048 m (10,000 ft)
• Rate of climb at sea level: 366 m/min (1,200 ft/min)
• Empty weight: 353 kg (778 lb)
• Loaded weight: 800 kg (1,764 lb.

it has quite a low stall speed and 50knt approach. 

Rule of thumb for a decent approach speed: Stall 35mph * 1.3 = 45.5mph vref + 50% steady state wind value + 50% gust value,

So on an example 10G15kn day approach would be 45.5mph + [5kn]5.75mph + [2.5kn]2.9mph = 54.15mph or 47.05kn - so 50kn seems ok on an average day....

Anyhow to the only people who really know what happened rest in peace, and my thoughts for those poor loved ones left behind in this tragedy [as always].

G1 STOL won in its class at the first big European STOL comp on the beaches in Belgium [Zoute Air Trophy].
 

Had a good look round it - nicely built all metal with good folding wing system  - quite impressive...

I’m sure Amelia Earhart would have attested to the efficacy of a trailing wire for comms when she landed back home in the US if she and Noonan had a serviceable one in her Electra: https://tighar.org/wiki/Removal_of_trailing_antenna

Anyone know of a decent Europa trigear for sale? Hoping I can find one in Aus rather than importing one.

Maybe another possibility is that his harness wasn't tightened enough and when he went inverted, he's lost control or accidentally caused the wrong control input right at that critical moment.

Yes maybe this.... everything looked ok until the inverted position for what was obviously going to be a rolling manoeuvre - can’t think of a logical reason why he’d try to pull back on the stick at that point. Loose straps could result in gripping stick backwards.

Unfortunately yet another example of level aeros not being a bright idea. Far too many over the years.

RIP to this poor fellow. I felt sick for his mate on the video camera...

Just adding a bit here. First off check out the ww2 training films on how to fly the jug - Pretty cool:

On a personal note I used to fly from a DDay era airfield called Headcorn in Kent, UK. While driving around I found a small dedication to a group of about a dozen WW2 pilots who died flying from there. They gave their lives flying Jugs with most of them cut down within a few months of DDay on very dangerous ground attack sorties - cutting Axis communication lines and close in ground support for the Allied coastal bridgeheads.

I checked out each of the pilots names on the internet and became focused on one guy in particular called George Rarey. He was killed in late June 1944 and never met his unborn son. Before the war he was a budding New York newspaper cartoonist and kept a cartoon diary of his wartime experience [he also painted personalised all the nose art for the pilots in his squadron].

His son published his work online and its a bitter sweet experience to read it: George Rarey's World War II Air Force Cartoon Journals

It’s a little off topic but if you’re interested in the P47 there’s some interesting insights here.

Was flying in the UK recently and a big reminder on CO poisoning came with the death of Emilio Sala in a charter crash

CO Poisoning is a very real danger - signs of nausea or headaches are prime symptoms and personality I’d be opening vents and getting on the ground - if I suspected it in any aircraft I’d flown in I wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving the pilot in command or owner completely aware of my concerns. Don’t think I’d be reporting anyone but I’d make sure my concerns were very clearly understood.

I have done a search of the ATSB database for RV aircraft accidents, any serious accident will have been investigated. There are about 500 flying in Australia now so a decent sample size over a long time frame. No serious injury or death that I can see due to the CANOPY, slider or tilt up.

 

The only really safe option is a cessna 172 and keep it in the hangar 24/7.

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You’re right with the C172 in the hangar comment. Reminded me of Max Stanley’s quote: The Piper Cub is the safest airplane in the world; it can just barely kill you :)

I owned a Tipsy Nipper for a while, loved it [best aviation fun:$ ratio I’ve ever had] but nose gear collapse leading to nose over in a forced landing situation was a worry.

I mitigated by really tightening Hooker 5 point straps on landing, always wearing a helmet and having a decent egress tool at hand with me.

The Tipsy Nipper has a funny nickname of the ‘Nipsy Tipper’ because it has been known to nose over so that threat was in my mind with that type but the steps I took probably a good idea with any low wing/bubble canopy combination.

Here's a couple of women who held their own with the best male pilots of their day;

If you want a true hell raising maverick check out the Pancho Barnes' story [read The Happy Bottom Riding Club if you can] - Founder of the US movie pilots union, Barnstormer, an original member of the 99s who broke Amelia's world speed record, and respected as a pilot by people like Bob Hoover, Chuck Yeager and Jimmy Doolittle no less....

Hanna Reitsch - A total Nazi who was with Hitler in the bunker at the end of WW2 - the last pilot to fly out of Berlin. A test pilot who flew one of the first helicopters [indoors btw], and as a very gifted test pilot flew a lot of the Nazi secret projects including the Me163 rocket plane and a piloted version of the V1 pulse jet (recommend 'The Sky Is My Kingdom')

Many many more examples but these two gals come to the front of my mind right now.

Thanks for quick reply :)

I saw Heck Field and thought it looked ideal but apparently no hangar space at the moment?

Looks ideal if it could work.

cheers

Any @400m strips within an hours drive of the Gold Coast that aren’t published on the sectionals that would have room for a STOL aircraft?

Looking to move up that way in the near future and would appreciate some inside info.

Wow there are a lot of nit pickers out there..... This looks like a pretty good job to me - well done to the pilot.

Hi Kingy. Glad to hear of another Rans fan- am going to dust off a mate's S14 tomorrow for a lap - love it!!What engine have you got?

Thanks Frank. Rans make a pretty neat little aeroplane - my one has electric flaps and they generally fly like a much bigger aircraft. Plus the visibility is amazing for an enclosed cockpit (like a chopper).

Not sure if that was quick thinking of the P1 to unlatch the door following the collision (in case the frame bent and jammed the door), or maybe the rapid swing round un popping the latch/flinging an open door outwards. If deliberate then that's pretty quick reactions from the pilot.

Also right rudder into the turn - seems counter intuitive but maybe trying to avoid a stall, the jolt caused P1 to step on the right pedal or deliberately trying to shed the canopy from the wing.

Anyhow great to see both walked away from this. In the end we're all up there for pretty much the same reasons and too often these accidents don't end so well.

Hi there,

I've been a pilot for thirty years and I'm interested in pretty much everything that flies.

I'm currently operating an S-14 out of Somersby on the NSW Central Coast. It's good to be on board at Recreational Flying.

Cheers