Kelvin

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix

 

Thanks Ian,

 

While it may appear at this point we should take a look at where thread is going. It would be much easier if we could have a discussion in real time and have some questions and answers flowing until the 'picture' was clear to all. But, in the meantime this forum with it's limitations has given me sufficient incentive to develop three useful tools like "Good Pilot Attributes", "RA Forum Attributes-Correlation Matrix"' and RAFA Customised Beliefs & Values" previously attached in this thread. There is one more step and again I will need plenty of help with and is called "RA Pilot Maturity Grid"

 

[ATTACH]6918.vB[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]6919.vB[/ATTACH]

 

We can develop the five levels ourselves (it only took us a week to raise the 10 "Good Pilot Attributes") that may take us about five weeks, then we can decide where we are at and move onto doing something we think needs to happen to move our 'maturity' up to a higher level. It's just like doing physical exercises to keep fit. For example, based on our posts up until last Monday, HPD suggested we have a look at one of Budd Davisson articles on building a "solid foundation". Thats an exercise we all can do right now. Reading and talking about that article will impact on our culture if enough of us read it. More to the point, we dont need a regulator to tell us where are at with our RA culture (the way we do things as opposed to GA) or what we can do to improve it. If this helps to clarify what I"m "trying to say" I'll get back to Tony's equally thought provoking post that already has potential 'exercises' we may want think more about sometime early in 09.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go).

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

 

Recreational Avaiation MatGrd 08.doc

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

 

Recreational Avaiation MatGrd 08.doc

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

Recreational Avaiation MatGrd 08.doc

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix

 

Thanks Yenn (again)

 

Most common unsafe practices are gradually eliminated by individuals, enforcers and requlators when it is realised the price of risk exposure is too high. What we're looking at is a critical foundational strategy that underscores traditional safety (engineering, education and enforcement). In the case of the Dogmen there were experienced people worried about the newer Dogmen in their first few years yet to learn from incidents and near misses they all tend to go through. Rather than being critical of their inexperience the process captures the proactive energy that is always there for nurturing a culture towards safety excellence.

 

Experience pilots know what the risks are and how to minimize them intuitively. So they share what they know and we all benefit by doing things right as best we know from sharing knowledge throughout our own flying experience. This process that has just started enables us to visualise the ideal flying enviroment in terms of culture within RA. We now have what we think makes up a "Good Pilot", how it stacks up with aquisition values along with our customised beliefs and values as they align with the aquisition values developed through a forum seen by many. It is also a tool to design our own culture.

 

Kelvin. (with a long way to go and wondering how much others see it)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

So what do we have here? Is it a fair attempt to make good use of a proven safety process a little better to understand within RA, using existing beliefs and values from within RA for the short/long term benefits to members of RA?

 

Tony mentioned 7/6/08 the process may put people off and he has made a very important point. On the other hand Shell (and they dont mind me saying so) thought that capturing the 'Attributes of a Dogman' would be going over their heads but in fact it became the opposite and the Dogmen didnt have to asked twice before they were right into it. Together we changed Shell's safety audit form into an interactive document that took into account their own perceptions of 'skills based errors' that none of us expected. They took us beyond the training they'd all been throgh. We were capturing the most valuable asset they could offer through their experience in reducing risk exposure. Some of it were lessons learnt the hard way (priceless absoultly priceless it was). Twelve months later at another project with Boral the same tradesmen asked if I would be doing it (revising an audit document) again. I told them I would but this time with the Scaffolders.

 

:off topic:When it comes to tradesmen or pilots, is there a learning, sharing, ownership difference here? Perhaps not if you consider the amount of interaction we've had with this and similar threads. The offer I'd made on the 2/6/08 in this thread still holds. Like everyone else I need positive rinforcement to put in the effort to move into other stages of the process with RA, above other time consuming enterprises.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go with time retraints like everyone else) .

 

 

MUSTANG a must.

 

Mustang - To see um, to hear um is to love um.

 

Got my fix again at the Lethbridge Air Park (YLED) Flyin Airshow 28/11/08 with compliments of the Geelong Sports Aviators. (see attachment)

 

Kelvin - with a long way to go.

 

Mustang at Lethbridge Air Park 28.11.08.doc

 

Mustang at Lethbridge Air Park 28.11.08.doc

 

Mustang at Lethbridge Air Park 28.11.08.doc

Lethbridge Flyin 29 Nov 08

 

Gents,

 

Yep I'll be there and I expect to wear out a bit of leather as a guest of one of the GFC members who can't stand my walking around. Thinks it's just plain unnatural.

 

Kelvin, with a long way to go.

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Kelvin, I don't quite know what you are trying to achieve here. If it is some sort of survey of a"culture of safety" in RAAus.,I would have to question the validity of your conclusions. I would not be comfortable putting much weight on it at present.

Thanks Neville, I'd agree 'validity' has to be verified.:thumb_up: We only have done a limited survey from this forum. From that survey we have the 10 Good Pilots Attributes (what we think we do best), followed by a Correlation Matrix (verifies where we are with the foundational 10 aquisition values) and Customised Beliefs and Values (enabling us to understand our own beliefs). Ref; post on 6.6.08. Alternatively, we could have got this far with everyone at a one day seminar, so we have done exceptionally well cost wise, by going through this forum.

The next step is compiling an outline for our own customised Safe Recreational Aviation Maturity Grid. With 10 values down the left column and five described levels across the page, that is 50 descriptions I'm going through right now and I'm going to need some help once I have the lowest and highest levels done for comment. Once we have the matrix finished, the real action begins with determining the level we are at for each of our 10 attributes and what we could do to go to a higher level.

 

Above all, we stay in the 'drivers' seat as we find ways to stay safe in the air with what we are most happy to develop and even get some action going.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go before thinking of landing)

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

We never got much or any feedback on this survey. What we did get was notification of the Advanced Pilot’s Award. This was couched in similar expression to what you are using Kelvin and was obviously orientated to ‘overseers’ being satisfied that we were totally competent.

Thanks Tony. :thumb_up: It would be more encouraging if the organisers were up front with guidelines set before their survey responses materalized. In turn we'd have a better idea if it was worthwhile to participate in the first place and hopefully avoid this sort of disappointment.

It should become progressively obvious that this thread 'orintation' goes way beyond pandering up to authorities because we are the direct benefactors of what we've initiated. Should we go onto the previously mentioned "Values-Driven Safety Maturity Grid" and subsequent improvement exercises, we'll definately be in the drivers seat. As I see it, our attributes, our beliefs and values, our matrix, our level/status opinions and our enhansement strategies, should underscore all our previous efforts to fly for fun.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go with a little encouragement)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Tony, :thumb_up: I guess I'd better use the smiles more often.

 

You have put a lot of thought into this post and I need to read it again to get as much out of it as I can. Starting with clarity in the first instance. I realise there are gaps, but by invitation I'd been testing-the-waters. I'll get back to your informative thoughts as soon as.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go in a new discipline)

 

 

"Actual Hero with Guts" acknowledged.

 

So let us please, on these forums, not simply look upon them as a notification of an accident, but also as an expression of our own interest in the same thing not happening to ourselves and wishing to participate in some way of avoiding that happening.

Thanks Tony.:thumb_up:

My GA CFI crashed in a Lancair IV-T back in Dec 2002 and the final ATSB report came out Nov 2003. I concluded with his experience of 6500 hrs and 42 years in the Navy, there was no way was I going to return to flying. I changed my mind later when I found out it was an experimental aircraft. Had we a forum like this back then, someone would have mentioned that critical fact and probably I would not have tried to avoid 'the same thing happening to' me by staying grounded.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and prepared to participate)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

"Safety" has a number of shaded meanings in aviation which our language structure cannot adequately reflect so we can often get our selves into knots while talking about "safety" and we can often be talking about two slightly different concepts and cannot understand why the other person cannot see it our way.

Thanks ROM. I guess the 'knots' have a lot to do with our perceptions being reality to us as individuals. Our beliefs and values are being constantly reinforced or challanged, particularly when someone says "Where have you been the last 10 years?". Undoing the knots is perhaps both desirable and akin to what we have been doing since you posted this quote on 29.5.08. We now have three of our own self assessment or reflection one page docs to help undo the 'knots'. We can reflect on them for further discussion, even modify, print and frame them, if we want to. They are still only half way into a mapped out process to better understand our own culture and design changes, based on our own beliefs and values. Culture changes in aviation is going to happen anyway, it just enables us I think to be a little more proactive.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go, hopefully without getting lost)

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

 

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

 

Attributes of an Aviator-Aviatrix.doc

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

 

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

 

Attributes of an Aviator-Aviatrix.doc

 

Recreational Flying Good Pilot Attributes.doc

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

Attributes of an Aviator-Aviatrix.doc

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Ian,:thumb_up: I take your point about meaningless words and 'blather on' within industrial training. Unfortunately, we have many non-sensical apparitions imposed on us by well meaning practitioners dabbling in psychology all too often beyond their depth. That would be the ingredients to a point where we, being a part of this discussion forum, are caused to stray onto the 'bull phase'. Your previous post (25.5.08) on what makes a good pilot, encourages me to believe there will be little chance of us 'straying' on this thread. Most of us are much more comfortable talking about our own culture as in social science because we know plenty about it through our life experiences, particularly when it comes to flying for fun.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go before 'floating' on cloud nine)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

I cannot gauge the attitude of the people who are joining the ranks of RAAus. The attitudes are very different from the people who trained with me initially. and that probably reflects changes in society generally. We have people from ALL walks of life in our ranks. It can be quite surprising, and I'm not sure how representative the people on this forum are of the other 80 -odd percent of our numbers, either. I make this observation, not with the intention of inhibiting discussion, but pointing out the dangers of drawing conclusions from a group whose input might not be representative of the whole

. Thanks Neville, Given that the thread has been visited over 600 times to see whats going on, if I take the next step based on what has already been posted on thread we can align our current beliefs and values with the universal 10 aquisition values to see how it looks. [ATTACH]5826.vB[/ATTACH][ Please lets know what you think, given there a few steps to go if we want to in the interest of useful discussion.

Kelvin (with a long way to go regardless of effort required)

 

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

 

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

 

Acquisition Values with customised ideal beliefs-values 08..doc

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Macnoz, :thumb_up:

 

I have completed the survey after talking to Kristie and knowing it was more of a GA focus with the summary being forwarded onto CASA. However, she said she'd been aware of our thread and copied it because of its relevance to her interests and research.

 

While we have developed something by way of a more structured approach from our own perceptions of a good pilot, it is still a tool to stimulate discussion and nothing more than that. Thats not to say there are any restrictions from taking it on board should we want to at some time later on. We have our own 10 Attributes that may be further developed through a "Customised Beliefs and Values" document followed by a "Correlation Matrix" in the coming days. We may even end up with a "Values-Driven Safety Maturity Grid" that will enable us to go on expressing views of where we are, at any given time.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and avoiding restrictions where ever possible)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Neville. Second opinions like this, causes us to reflect on what were doing and consider refinements. :thumb_up:

 

Regulators, I believe they are busy about dealing with recidivist and recalcitrant elements within our society after the event and being a deterrent to others before the event. What we could always do better is finding ways to promote a risk resistant culture that will tend to keep us out of the headlines, without putting too fine a point on it. We'll know how we are performing by the duration of enjoying affordable flying. Perhaps that was what's behind the invitation to comment on aviation safety compared to other industry and offer ideas and suggestions. This is what I have come up with.

 

In reviewing the 10 attributes:

 

1. Human Error is Recognised and Controlled (Flyer40 8.5.08).

 

2. Self-imposed flying discipline is a widespread practice (Yenn 25.5.08).

 

3. Double checks occur naturally before deciding on an emergency response (Yenn 25.5.08).

 

4. Learning from others experiences is multitudinous (facthunter 25.5.08).

 

5. Flying enjoyment is tempered by an inherent risk exposure (High Plains Drifter 27.5.08)

 

6. Safety Procedures are never taken lightly (Mazda 27.5.08)

 

7. Courtesy is regarded as a welcomed responsibility (Mazda 27.5.08)

 

8. Effective decisions arise from sound situational awareness (TOSGcentral 28.5.08).

 

9. Pilots operate and fly within their own limits (ROM 28.5.08)

 

10. Pilot performance enhances aviation's reputation (Matt 28.5.08).

 

are there any that would lead directly or inadvertently to increased flying costs:question:

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and hoping to get right the first time).

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

I think I posted something about my little accident way back, but it is lost in time now, so I will repeat it.I was flying at Old Station using 09 - 27 strip. Well away from 06 - 24.

Normal practice was to actually land on the taxiway from the hangar to the strip and that was what I was doing with a heavy passenger. There is a very large double gate between taxiway and strip, always closed, so landing has to be completed before you get to the gate.

 

All went well as usual until I had doubts about stopping before the gate as I had no brakes. Instant decision. Apply power, jump the fence, turn 20 degrees or so and land on 09.

 

The result is I jumped the fence and while gradually turning, reducing power I found a big mound of soil beside the runway in the long grass, with the Stbd wheel. It really spoilt my day, but no injuries except to pride and wallet.

 

What I should have done is go around and do the job properly rather than trying to save having to open and close the gate.

Thanks Ian (Yenn 26.5.08) There are some learning experiences to be gleaned from your 'report' through safety science and cause elements: design, enviroment and behaviour. If I may venture a little with some discussion points like;

DESIGN: Limited landing distance. No braking capability.

 

ENVIRONMENT: Heavy passanger-Higher stall speed. Obscured surface obstruction.

 

BEHAVIOUR: Saving time and effort.

 

I suppose at least that gives us more prevention options and control measurers.

 

Remove anyone of these 6 causes and nothing would have happened.

 

Are there any other causes I may have missed?

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and looking for more learning experiences)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

To me that makes a pilot, in your parlance, a "thrill seeker" but still a very safe pilot as he / she are flying well within their own "safety limitations" and that is why so many of us just keep right on flying.

ROM, This post has just earnt you some 'brownie points', but it was people on the forum that 'extracted' it out of you. :thumb_up: We need this sort of insight from time to time if we are to move forward. Who was it that said, "If your not moving forwards, your are going backwards" in a developmental sense?

It also underscores your attribute, 10. Pilots operate and fly within their own limits (ROM 28.5.08).

 

Kelvin, (with a long way to go, without standing still for a moment)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Kelvin, I don't quite know what you are trying to achieve here. If it is some sort of survey of a"culture of safety" in RAAus.,I would have to question the validity of your conclusions. I would not be comfortable putting much weight on it at present.

Thanks Neville, Yes, it is about surveying the culture then deciding on what we can do to improve it, within our means. The methodology is called Values-Driven Safety (VDS). It is also a social science process deals with the draconian aspects of traditional safety where laws are imposed for the so called "good-of-the-workers" but the workers, more often than not, don't see it that way and balk at being treated like school children. I have used it in the building and construction industry where my peers said it could not be done. Now, some of them have had second thoughts. It's a bit like flying and that quote that goes something like, "Once being up there you will always be looking up". I have been given free access to the intellectual property to use, because the founder said I'd earned it. As we go through the next step or two we decide how much weight we put on it and not someone else on our behalf. Having said that you and others will want to know more before the next steps materalize. Message me your contact datails and I can send you articles or just explain by phone. More than likely I'll bump into you around Bruce's office in the coming weeks.

 

Kelvin (with along way to go, even when it gets a bit bumpy)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Mike, Yep, on reflection your right. It's an attempt to drill-down and find another attribute with your ownership. Your 11 inspirational qualities set last year should still have a place in this social change process. Let's revisit them as this process evolves.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go but not on his own)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Rather than this constant harping on "SAFETY" perhaps a more realistic approach would be to know both youre's and the your flight project's limits and learn to operate with in those personal limits that each and everyone of us have. That "safety" has all sorts of levels for different people and different moods of the same person but it is a flexible safety that allows risks that you are prepared to take within your own personal limits and sometimes, occasionally to your regret, outside of your personal limits.

Thanks ROM, I suppose two people looking at the same issue may have different perceptions and to them it is reality. Perhaps thats why we have arguments, divorces and wars.

On reflection, your quotes above (2) may well be our tenth attribute without doubling up.

 

10. Pilots operate and fly within their own limits (ROM 28.5.08).

 

Unless someone else has an idea for another attribute, we can move onto cross checking these ten attributes against the 10 Safety-Driven Values that should enable us to aquire these Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix, as we see fit to do so.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go having taken the first steps)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

First I object to "airman" let's go back to aviator lest our generally more effective and competent sisters come after us.From a post of mine from April last year:

 

If I had to describe the qualities that I aspire to as a pilot I'd say things like:

 

Conservative in my actions but not timid;

 

Careful but not over-cautious;

 

Alert but not fretful;

 

Decisive but not impulsive;

 

Inquisitive;

 

Observant;

 

Chronically uneasy but not anxious (thanks James Reason);

 

Communicative but not dominating;

 

Attentive to others;

 

Courteous;

 

Adept and current both in stick and rudder and in management of the a/c;

 

....

 

Regards

 

Mike

Thanks Mike, Nothing much has changed between qualities and attributes over the past year or so. What qualities aligns with these attributes raised over the last week?

1. Human Error is Recognised and Controlled (Flyer40) 1. = Careful

 

2. Self-imposed flying discipline is a widespread practice (Yenn). 2. = Inquisitive

 

3. Double checks occur naturally before deciding on an emergency response (Yenn). 3. = Decisive

 

4. Learning from others experiences is multitudinous (facthunter). 4. = Attentive, Observant

 

5. Flying enjoyment is tempered by an inherent risk exposure (High Plains Drifter) 5. = Uneasy

 

6. Safety Procedures are never taken lightly (Mazda) 6. = Alert

 

7. Courtesy is regarded as a welcomed responsibility (Mazda) 7. = Courteous,

 

8. Effective decisions arise from sound situational awareness (TOSGcentral). 8. = Adapt and Current

 

9. Pilot performance enhances aviation's reputation (Matt). 9. = Communicative

 

I suppose this looks like a best-fit analysis. Can enyone convert Mike's qualities into an imperative or attribute that will capture it all without doubling up on the nine we already have?

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go with a little help)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

This might be a bit high level, but I have used in a number of ways with various work groups in the past...easily transferable to aviators and the intent is the same:"In everything that you do, ensure that your performance enhances aviation's reputation"

 

It can mean many things to many people, but the intent is what I think you're trying to achieve - to define the reputation and therefore perception of an aviator by peers, passengers and onlookers...their perception is their reality. We all want to be perceived as safe, competent and in command - I would expect that would be achieved by doing the things discussed in this thread.

Thanks Matt, Well if we are going to align our newly developed attributes later with established values that leads to the acquisitions of these attributes, why not enhance the reputations of both RAA pilots and the organisation in the same process?

 

9. Pilot performance enhances aviation's reputation.

 

It certainally seems to underscore all the other attributes so far.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and acknowledges the encouragement)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Tony, (TOSGcentral) for raising a fundamental aspect of defensive driving/flying and keeping us on-our-toes. Could we make that number 8.

 

8. Effective decisions arise from sound situational awareness (TOSGcentral).

 

Does that cover your example of changing scenarios example?

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and where others have led the way)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator/Aviatrix.

 

Thanks Mazda (27.5.08), you have presented at least two ideas on being a good pilot and we should add them to the Aviator/Aviatrix Attributes below.

 

1. Human Error is Recognised and Controlled (Flyer40)

 

2. Self-imposed flying discipline is a widespread practice (Yenn).

 

3. Double checks occur naturally before deciding on an emergency response (Yenn).

 

4. Learning from others experiences is multitudinous (facthunter).

 

5. Flying enjoyment is tempered by an inherent risk exposure (High Plains Drifter) and now add yours:

 

6. Safety Procedures are never taken lightly (Mazda)

 

7. Courtesy is regarded as a welcomed responsibility (Mazda)

 

That leaves three to go. Lets see what we can glean from this mornings posts without doubling up.

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go and feeling comfortable with the journey)

 

 

Desirable Attributes of an Aviator.

 

Thanks HPD, I believe this new thread title now better reflects what were talking about.:big_grin:

 

As we can build upon the existing Aviator Attributes:

 

1. Human Error is Recognised and Controlled (Flyer40)

 

2. Self-imposed flying discipline is a widespread practice (Yenn).

 

3. Double checks occur naturally before deciding on an emergency response (Yenn).

 

4. Learning from others experiences is multitudinous (facthunter). we can now add yours:

 

5. Flying enjoyment is tempered by an inherent risk exposure (High Plains Drifter)

 

I guess we can start thinking about aligning these attributes with the values that will enable us to aquire these desirable attributes as an organisation. It looks like we have a few more ideas coming in to convert into attributes. Is this starting to make sense?

 

Kelvin (with a long way to go, and enjoying the support)

 

 

Thanks Neville (facthunter), That's a critical attribute I suspect thats easily overlooked.

 

If we build upon:

 

1. Human Error is Recognised and Controlled (Flyer40)

 

2. Self-imposed flying discipline is a widespread practice (Yenn).

 

3. Double checks occur naturally before deciding on an emergency response (Yenn). then add:

 

4. Learning from others experiences is multitudinous (facthunter).

 

Sorry about the long word there but I did not want to use 'widespread' again. Well, thats four down with six to go. It could get a little more difficult now without doubling up. The next step is to compile a correlation matrix to see how it all stacks up against another 10 values-driven safety (VDS) that is designed in our case to aquire desirable attributes for happy flying.

 

Kelvin (with-a-long-way-to-go, but happy to share some of the journey)