Jimmyhuf

A new 582 in Aus was going to be $15k plus.I sent my 618 To Ron davis in Florida for a total cost of $3800AUD and it's absolutely outstanding. Everything has been overhauled.

A friend who flys GA, said he would never get an engine overhauled is aus.It is cheaper to air freight an engine to aero sport power in Canada and return than here in aus.

Cheaper again to buy second hand in USA, ship to Canada for full rebuild and then to aus.

 

Saves 20 to 30 grand easy he recons.....

 

Another friend is expecting his transponder back from the mfg in the USA after repairs. All up cost A $500.

 

Quoted in aus, $1500......

 

I know it's not good sending stuff away from aussie companies, but when you're talking hundreds of percent difference in price....well.

 

30 percent, ok....50 percent....maybe.....but 300 percent?

I sent my 618 To Ron davis in Florida for a total cost of $3800AUD and it's absolutely outstanding. Everything has been overhauled.

And I believe you don't pay gst because it is a returning item?

Hey,

My 618 cost me $580 to get it The with insurance and $450 to get it back.

I went through CheapCouriersCompare and used TNT which is now owned by FedEx.

I shipped the engine on the 6th July and the engine has now already been returned on Monday 24th. Including Rebuild time. Very quick and price better than I thought.

My full parcel weighed in at 57kg because I sent Gearbox and all.

A 503 is a lot lot smaller and lighter! I would estimate $600 return shipping

I have used Rick Davis for 4 rebuils of four 503s. I can't say enough positives about this guy. He will work to give you the lowest possible price, keep you informed throughout the process and back his work 100%. Nothing less than High Praise for Rick!

Thanks for the feedback

We have an after market pet we got from the RSPCA. I guess he gets his from autocorrect.Good luck with the rebuild.

Hi All,

Has anyone from Australia had any dealings with Rotax Rick (Ron Davis) in Naples, Florida?

Looking for any feedback on his mmm and his work.

Need to have my 618 Rotax rebuilt and can't have it done in australia. Apparently he uses after market pets which are great quality.

Got a great response direct from the Ops Manager. Seems like type training will soon be a Recommendation Only.

Quoted Below

Hi James

Thanks for your email and coming to Ops for a response, rather than relying on possibly misleading information or rumour. As Ops wrote the manual, we provide the best response about interpreting it.

The intent behind type training was to assist pilots in recognising the differences in aircraft characteristics, which go beyond whether they are high wing, nose wheel and high or low performance, which it appears you understand.

I am in the process of revising the current Operations Manual Issue 7 to improve the definitions and intent of type training, which was never intended to be onerous or a burden to members, but was based on analysis of accidents, serious and fatal, and noting trends. These trends included a high number of pilots in exactly your situation, relatively low hour pilots having been trained in one type and purchasing a quite different type for personal flying. (I am basing this on your database records, which show you with 33.4 hours at September 2015 when you were issued with your Pilot Certificate, so I apologise if you have more hours than are currently shown).

Below are some excerpts from the proposed draft of Issue 7.1, which will shortly be made available to all members for comment and consultation. Hopefully these revisions will assist you to understand what we are intending when type training is mentioned. As you will see, the definition has been broadened to include differences in systems, like fuel, ancillary controls like flaps or dive brakes and more. Thesuitably experienced pilot is an important addition as it addresses what you appear to have done already, which is become familiar with the aircraft by flying with the previous owner (who certainly should know the aircraft well, although this is not a given).

Aeroplane Type

Aeroplanes of similar undercarriage configuration, design features, wing design and camber, systems including fuel system, ancillary control inputs such as flaps, trim, dive brakes, cowl flaps, differing avionics, cockpit ergonomics, critical operating speeds including flight envelope (e.g. high drag/low drag with consideration of inertia), stall speeds and normal/emergency handling characteristics as noted by the manufacturer or RAAus. (Note. This definition applies to assessment of similar aeroplane types for the purposes of type training).

Suitably Experienced Pilot

is a pilot who holds more than 100 hours PIC time in the type of aircraft operated or more than 400 hours experience in a wide variety of recreational aircraft.

The first definition is intended to assist members understand what aircraft type characteristics are relevant for pilot awareness for safe operations. Two classic examples of this are:

Tecnam types. While the Sierra P2002 has two fuel taps next to each other on the centre console of the aircraft between the pilot and passenger foot wells, which work in an obvious and exactly the same manner for on/off configuration, the Tecnam P92 series has the one fuel tap on each of the door pillars, and the two taps operate in direct opposition to each other for on/off configuration. This has led to at least three accidents we are aware of resulting in precautionary landings and damage to aircraft, as a direct result of the low time pilot (or even the Instructor unfamiliar with the type), turning the wrong tap off, and starving the engine of fuel as a result.

Or, the newly issued Pilot Certificate holder who has trained on aircraft X, gained their Pilot Certificate and then subsequently purchases aircraft Y for personal flight. A number of loss of control accidents on take-off or landing has resulted from this change of type in early hours of the newly issued Pilot Certificate holders flying career.

There are many more examples of this unfamiliarity with types being a factor in an accident or incident, hence the intention to have pilots familiarise themselves with aircraft of a different type.

The suitably experienced pilot definition is in recognition of a point that has been recognised, that a pilot with sufficient experience on a wide variety of types may be able to assist newer pilots to become familiar with a new type, providing this sort of information for other pilots, rather than requiring an Instructor.

The additional text below from the draft Section 2.01 paragraph 13 shows Ops acknowledgement that a sufficiently experienced Instructor or pilot may also self-certify for a new type, although we would expect this flight to occur prior to them carrying passengers in the new type. I have also underlined a critical change, that Type Training is recommendedrather than mandatory.

13. In order to operate a recreational aeroplane as pilot in command it is recommended a Pilot Certificate holder demonstrate competency on the Aeroplane Type. Aeroplane Type Training should be undertaken with a RAAus Examiner orsuitably experienced pilot on the respective aeroplane group and type.

The RAAus Examiner or suitably experienced pilot is to make an entry into the pilot’s logbook detailing confirmation of the successful assessment undertaken in accordance with Section 2.02 of this manual.

For the purposes of flight operations for a first of type or type of aircraft not previously operated before, a suitably experienced pilot, Instructor or higher Approval holder may self-assess their competence to operate the aeroplane on familiarisation with the Pilot Operating Handbook or Flight Manual for the aircraft type.

Note: Logbook entries showing a minimum of 2 hours pilot in command of an aeroplane type recorded prior to Issue 7 of this manual will be accepted as evidence of appropriate type training for that aeroplane.

James, I trust this suitably addresses your concerns, and as it will shortly become a recommendation, rather than the current requirement, and you stated in your email you believe you are sufficiently competent on the aircraft to fly it, ultimately, this is a decision pilots make every day we fly.

Regards,

Jill Bailey

National Operations Manager

Individual aircraft endorsements were not required, in the past . Why would you talk about all the other differences based on "characteristics" if you have to have an every different aircraft endorsement?However it would be unclever to just hop into a different plane and just fly it without some preparation/familiarity.. If you are $#1t hot it should show very quickly. It shouldn't be a money raising thing, but IF I was owner of a plane you hadn't flown, and I just let you go it would appear a bit casual. Familiarisation would be the thing to do. It would appear negligent to not check your currency and skill level. Nev

I have flown with the previous owner for a couple of hours, so I learned quite a bit about the aircraft. Obviously still learning, and keen to find another X Air owner in VIC that has more experience than me

Well I've heard from a number of people suggesting that it does, so I asked my cfi when I did my bfr, [18/12/15] he said as you say that they no longer exist and promptly endorsed me for all the aircraft I've flown in my log book that he has knowledge of but even so I still was not convinced. By chance my bfr and PC became due at the same time and when my email arrived from raa to say all was well and my certificate would be in the mail came which I still have it was minus as you would expect the LP/HP endorsements. Here was an oppurtunity to ring raa and get a final word and put my mind at rest so I did. I was put through to the appropiate people the responce " that's ok it would be on my certificate when it arrived and true to their word there they were all nine of them including HP and LP, hence my comment a fact check is in order.Terry

I presume that if you had gained your LP/HP or any other endorsements PRIOR to them becoming a thing of the past, that they would still leave them on your certificate. But, as written in the latest Ops, they're not a listed endorsement anymore. You can't obtain those endorsements anymore. But there's no point in RAA taking them off of your Cert if you already obtained them years ago. Shows a skill set for you as well. I'm not arguing with you, just simply saying that the endorsement is N/A

HI Jimmy,I asked the same question to Ra-Aus over xmas as I trained in a Foxbat and just finished building a X-Air standard with 582,

I hope my below the dotted line reply clears up your question :)

 

you will only need a 2S endorsing :)

 

Pete

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Pete,

 

If you can send in logbook evidence of aircrafts you have flown which are two stroke we will be able to look into endorsing you with 2s,

 

as for LP we no longer endorse as per the Operations Manual.

 

Thank You,

 

The Membership Team

 

Members Database Administrator

 

E: [email protected]

 

W: www.raa.asn.au

 

T: (02) 6280 4700

 

F: (02) 6280 4775

I understand LP is not an endorsement, but the Ops manual does still talk about type training and does refer to the characteristics of the plane etc. my CFI told me it's not an endorsement but it MUST still be logged and signed off in your log book for different types you wish to fly...... Gee it's confusing

Insure your aircraft for type training for yourself, it shouldn't be much more (if any) if it is already insured. Then ring around for an instructor who has flown that type of aircraft and ask if they will endorse you in your aircraft. Surely someone in Victoria can do this? As you say this will give you the two stroke endorsement. If you read the ops manual you will see that this is what is required. Hopefully the rewrite of the ops manual will make this process easier.

The only real difference between thruster and XAir is the landing config. They're both LP aircraft and really I would have thought Type training is that would cover me for XAir since I already have NW endorsement.

Terryc, have a look at the RAAus web site.https://www.raa.asn.au/forms

There are NO forms for a LP endorsement. 2 stroke yes. This changed a while back. An endorsement is now required for the type.

who said there is no HP /LP endorsement anymore. There might be a need for a facts check

I had a response from Michael Coates today, he is the importer and salesman of X Airs in Australia.

This is a snippet of what he said to me regarding 2stroke.

"a lot of the flying schools were doing it hard several years ago and a few flying school instructors ended up as board members. They then came up with all of these stupid endorsements because this would get people back into their flying schools to get the add-ons to make them legal to fly. Unfortunately it didn't work and a lot of people continue to fly without the endorsements quite happily, some people have been flying two-stroke engines for 25 years and still don't have the two-stroke engine endorsement. I don't believe there is any requirement now for you to have anything because the system from what I understand has mostly been abandoned as a stupid idea from what I have been told."

Ring RAA Aus and ask them...

Fantastic response! Thanks so much!

That makes me feel a bit better that it's not just me who finds it a bit silly.

Ring the RA-Aus 02 6280 4700 ask for operations. Simple.

2 stroke endorsement intrigues me. I leant to fly Group A in a Tecnam 912uls 4 stroke but do I have a 4 stroke endorsement ?. i learnt Group D in an Aerochute with a 503 2 stroke but I don't physically have a 2 stroke endorsement. Whats hard about a 2 stroke - plugs, fuel and air filter , gear box oil. lot less maintenance than a 4 stroke.With the x-air question, if you hold endorsements for the configuration of the Aircraft that should be all you NEED but flying with someone experienced would be a benefit. Plenty of upper air work to sort out stall and glide speeds at different stages of flap etc.

What if your getting a single seater, what could you do then.

Oh for sure. It is very different! I actually had not read that part from ops manual. However my CFI also told me ( when I asked about training in a Thruster) that a thruster is again a different type that the XAir so that wouldn't cover me. But a thruster is a low speed high drag plane, similar characteristics, however it's a tail wheel.... Surely I could train in that and be signed off for type?

Cut and pasted from the definitions in the Ops manual...

Aeroplane Type

 

Aeroplane undercarriage configuration, design features, flight envelope (e.g. high drag/low drag and considerations of inertia), stall speeds and normal/emergency handling characteristics as designated by the manufacturer.

 

I think that the XAir has a very different flight envelope to a Jab, so might be wise to get some training regardless.[/QUOT

I think the type training is just for low power...?Any instructor should be able to test and sign you off.

It didn't really sound right to me. I would have thought as long as it's 3 axis, nose wheel I should be able to fly it. Except I still need 2S endorsement

Hi All,

It has recently come to my attention that I need to be "type" trained in my XAIR Ultralight.

I trained in a JABIRU and have just purchased an XAir UL 618.

I was under the impression that I could now go and fly a Nose Weel, 3 Axis , RA Aircraft, but I was apparently mistaken and need to be signed off in any different aircraft I fly? Is that correct? Sorry for my naive approach, but my aircraft rego does state "Type" as 3 Axis and my licence states "group" as 3 axis, hence my confusion on "type" training.

I don't know where I can fly an X air like mine to be signed off. Mine is not insured for training purposes. Any help would be much appreciated!

Also, 2 Stroke Endorsement.

Where can I do that in Victoria? I presume if someone can "type" train me in an XAir they can also endorse me for 2S?

Hi All,

It has recently come to my attention that I need to be "type" trained in my XAIR Ultralight.

I trained in a JABIRU and have just purchased an XAir UL 618.

I was under the impression that I could now go and fly a Nose Weel, 3 Axis , RA Aircraft, but I was apparently mistaken and need to be signed off in any different aircraft I fly? Is that correct? Sorry for my naive approach, but my aircraft rego does state "Type" as 3 Axis and my licence states "group" as 3 axis, hence my confusion on "type" training.

I don't know where I can fly an X air like mine to be signed off. Mine is not insured for training purposes. Any help would be much appreciated!

Also, 2 Stroke Endorsement.

Where can I do that in Victoria? I presume if someone can "type" train me in an XAir they can also endorse me for 2S?

So how's the rebuild going? Just finished techair's old girl and she a beautyTest flown last week after her 14 year rest. Perfect.

Sorry no pics :). You'll have to wait for the movie. As it's done up as part of the movie :). She is done up into something very special and unique ;)

I've bought a fully operational and flying X Air 618 for bugger all money!

Hi All,

I'm looking for any RA aircraft in or around Melbourne that can be hired for a weekend or even a week?

I have found Golden Plains Aviation have a new Tecnam Eaglet at Lethbridge Airpark just for this reason.

Just wondering if anyone knows of any Private Hire aircraft or schools that may hire for a longer period. Nose Wheel Only.

Cheers

Thanks for your input on the ailerons! That does make a lot of sense really!

Does anyone know of any for sale in Aus?