An invitation to gather info at Sebring's 'LSA Expo'

[Jack Tyler]

Hi, everyone...

 

I know that most of you here are just a wee bit too far way to consider attending Sebring's LSA-Fest next month. It is perhaps the biggest expo of LSA type a/c we have in the USA right now, excluding Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun. I hope to be going there and, if anyone here is especially interested in either info or a specific pic related to one or more LSA products (or other flying-related bits), feel free to PM me and I'll attempt to grab it for you.

 

Obviously, getting it 'virtually' - in some kind of digital form - would make passing it on easy. But we'll be back in Brisbane in early February, so I can always post what I can't send via the Web. Just let me know...

 

Jack

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Jack,

 

Good pics of any aircraft at shows are always welcome - you could post a selection here or in Monthly Photo Competition.

 

 

[Guest studentbiggles]

Hi, everyone...I know that most of you here are just a wee bit too far way to consider attending Sebring's LSA-Fest next month. It is perhaps the biggest expo of LSA type a/c we have in the USA right now, excluding Oshkosh and Sun 'n Fun. I hope to be going there and, if anyone here is especially interested in either info or a specific pic related to one or more LSA products (or other flying-related bits), feel free to PM me and I'll attempt to grab it for you.

 

Obviously, getting it 'virtually' - in some kind of digital form - would make passing it on easy. But we'll be back in Brisbane in early February, so I can always post what I can't send via the Web. Just let me know...

 

Jack

Hi Jack.......Any info on the Glasair 111 would be wonderful.

Cheers Alley

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

Wilco on trying for some useful photos...except that there are so many sources of pics (of LSAs) on the web now that perhaps that it would be easy to just duplicate what's already there. Perhaps shooting for 'unique' or 'distinguishing' features might be a good theme.

 

Glassair doesn't offer an LSA aircraft so they are unlikely to be exhibiting at Sebring. Remember: we're talking about sub-120 kt and sub 1320# aircraft when looking at LSA's - at least in the U.S.

 

I can tell you that one topic I'm keen to better understand is what lies beyond the 'official' view from Rotax that running E10 fuel in their engines is OK. I hear a lot of rumbling from Experimental and LSA owners that it isn't that simple...and that's before we get to the issue of a given aircraft's fuel *system* (tanks to carburetor). Sebring will be a profitable venue for learning more about that topic.

 

What else, folks?

 

Jack

 

 

[rgmwa]

I can tell you that one topic I'm keen to better understand is what lies beyond the 'official' view from Rotax that running E10 fuel in their engines is OK. I hear a lot of rumbling from Experimental and LSA owners that it isn't that simple...and that's before we get to the issue of a given aircraft's fuel *system* (tanks to carburetor). Sebring will be a profitable venue for learning more about that topic.

What else, folks?

 

Jack

Jack, a significant number of Vans RV-12 builders have recently reported that the four cap screws that bolt the Rotax 912ULS engine onto the engine mounts have started to work loose after about 20-50 hours flying. One or two have even lost a bolt. There has been a lot of discussion about this on the VAF forum recently, and a couple of solutions have been proposed and are being trialled by various builders.

 

However, there has been nothing official from Van's or Rotax on this topic, other than a recent service notice from Vans to check the bolts regularly as required by Rotax. No response at all from Rotax. It would be nice to know if Rotax is intending to do something about this potentially serious problem.

 

Although this may only be an RV-12 issue, I assume a similar mounting system is used for 912ULS installations in other aircraft as well. Not sure if anyone else has come across this problem.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

RG, thanks for that 'heads up'. As it happens, Sebring is the base for Lockwood Aviation which is apparently a major Rotax dealer, repair center et al. and Phil Lockwood is one of the key organizers of the Expo. So along with big-nosing the Vans area - I'm sure there will be one - I'll see if I can pry any info out of his folks. If anyone knows, they will...tho' that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be sharing the info if Rotax is still mum on the subject. We'll see...

 

Jack

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Jack,

 

I'd greatly appreciate receiving info and pricing for the SlipStream Genesis factory-built aircraft. Slipstream International will have a display at Sebring.

 

Thanks,

 

Dave

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

I'll see what I can come up with, Dave.

 

Jack

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

:thumb_up:

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

Re: RGMWA's post above, if anyone else is interested in hearing what the current thinking is on this problem I found an interesting thread re: the RV-12 engine capscrew/mounting bolt issue at VAF here:

 

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=65332

 

It appears this reflects the answer - or at least the 'degree of answer' that can be expected of Vans. I'm left to wonder what Vans has done (if anything) re: S-LSA RV-12's. Presumably, those aircraft run the same risk of the engine's mounting bolts coming loose as the E-LSA aircraft. I still plan to ask Phil Lockwood's group about it; they may have some insights worth hearing if it's perceived as a generic issue vs. just an RV-12 issue.

 

I notice that RGMWA is posting on that thread, so obviously he's seen what has been discussed.

 

Jack

 

 

[rgmwa]

Hi Jack.

 

Loctite and Nord-Loc washers are the two potential solutions that some RV-12 builders have proposed and are currently trialling. Your link to the VAF thread is where this problem is being discussed. Chances are that either one will fix the problem, but it would be nice to get some official response, particularly from Rotax. The plans from Vans require the builder to install the bolts as per the Rotax instructions, so you would expect that any mods would have to be approved by them.

 

There is currently only one S-LSA RV-12 in existence, and that is Van's own certificated production aircraft. They needed to manufacture at least one in order to be allowed to sell E-LSA kits. As it's unlikely that they would want to go into the aircraft manufacturing business themselves, chances are there won't be any other RV-12 S-LSA's, unless somebody else decides to start producing them commercially.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

Just a last reminder: Sebring Expo (in Florida) begins Friday. This is perhaps 'the' LSA showcase in our country (altho' there surely are some other good ones) and will host vendors who are selling all the 'bits' as well as LSA mfgrs. and distributors. In addition to the requests above, I'd be glad to pick up any info, pose any Q's, or snap any pics that might meet anyone's needs.

 

For us USA guys, a biggie might be to talk with the Dynon folks about how they see their role WRT the FAA's NextGen program.

 

Since I might not be back here before then, feel free to email me.

 

Jack

 

jack_patricia at yahoo.com

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

G'day Jack,

 

Did you have a great time at Sebring? Maybe you can post some photos of the "latest and greatest" in light sport aircraft.

 

 

[Jack Tyler]

Sebring Report & A's to the Q's

 

First time we've attended, being drawn there by the desire to see as much of the LSA fleet as possible during our short stay in the States, and specifically to look at (and hopefully fly) the RV-12. Judging by comments from some locals who work the show each year plus comments from friends who attend each year, Sebring's LSA Expo this year:

 

-- had a relatively slow, poorly attended Saturday, in scuddy, cold weather (tho' Friday was better attended than the previous year)

 

-- appeared to have a few more LSA a/c this year than last, said the locals; you'll be glad to hear there were 3 Jabirus in attendance

 

-- is mostly about LSA's of all types rather than vendors; from a 'shopping for bits' standpoint, a Sun 'n Fun or Oshkosh it is not

 

-- seemed to us to have few serious shoppers, and with numerous used S-LSA's being hawked by hungry brokers/flight schools/etc.

 

-- the average attendee was in his (not her) 60's or older; there were some young families and middle-aged folks in the crowd but they seemed to be outnumbered by the motorized wheelchairs being used by the Snow Birds; if part of general aviation's future in the USA is to be driven by the Light Sport movement, it wasn't apparent here

 

-- struck us as quite a small venue, even tho' its the largest LSA show in the country; nicely laid out, very friendly staff, and with the small attendance, it was the perfect place for us to accomplish our mission.

 

As for the A's to the Q's, I'm not able to offer much:

 

-- In trying to post pics, I discover mine are far larger than what this forum will accept. Haven't got the s/w handy to shrink them so I will have to get to that another time with another computer

 

-- Re: rgmwa's Q, the Rotax (Lockwood Aviation) folks claimed not to know about nor have an opinion about the mounting bolts backing out. At least, from those I spoke with. If building something with a Rotax, I'd do what seemed safe (vs. only torquing to spec) and that's what all the builders I've talk with about the issue do

 

-- the Slipstream Genesis was not being exhibited there, as verified by the show organizers as well as the program

 

The flying weather was pretty lousy (bumpy air and a direct, gusty crosswind on the active), which made it perfect for a introductory ride in an RV-12. Tower's call on both takeoff & landing was a 90 degree crosswind of 14G20, winds upstairs were ~20-25 based on the Garmin vs. Dynon displays. For all these short-coupled LSA's with their large tail feathers & light weights, watching the demos from the ground made for some interesting comparisons. The -12 handled it all beautifully, both looked and felt very solid by comparison...and no offense to Mitch the demo pilot, it wasn't just due to his piloting skills.

 

One last observation...'observation' being the operative word: Some of these a/c seem to compound a problem I'm already hearing about from flight instructors. 99% of the fixed wing, enclosed cockpit a/c have at least one EFIS, often times two...and of course a GPS of some kind. There is just LOTS of button pushing called for (doubly so if working off one of the Garmin GPS units, their user interface having a Fedex/Apollo heritage and requiring amazing zipping/zooming around the menus). Couple that with the 'machine gun pill box' visibility that some of these a/c offer (especially the high wings, it seems to me) and I can imagine there's far more of a tendency to keep one's head inside the cockpit than is safe. Especially in an a/c intended for VFR flight...

 

That's it from me. If there are any Q's, please let me know...