Got my fix today.

[Guest Crash Lander]

Nah,That's confusion:;)3:

 

OKTA is an 1/8 of cloud

 

OCTA is Outside Controlled Airspace

 

So If you get into OKTAs or into OCTA you are in trouble!!!

 

Ciao

 

Mike

AHA! I'm guessing that's one that confuses many a newbie pilot? Or just dimwits like me?

 

 

[PaulN]

Hey Paul, is it CAVOC or CAVOK - just curious ;)

OOPS ... CAVOK is the one, thanks Ian.

 

 

[PaulN]

Just to clarify a few things I've read, that seem to read confusingly to me. I'm going to be doing my BAK in the not too distant futre, so I'm going through all the books. All these apply to a pilot with only an RAA license, and no PPL.

By "all these" do mean your following queries?

 

We are not permitted to fly above 5000ft.

This limitation comes with exceptions. Fundamentally, if the PIC deems that to fly safely, such as gaining as much alt as necessary to glide to safety when crossing rough country, as we often have to do here in the Snowy Mountains (our airport elev is 3106’), then greater than 5000' but with an absolute limit of 10000'

 

You can fly above the clouds, but only if you can see the ground at least once every 30 minutes. (how the hell you would be able to judge that before you get up there if it's a bit cloudy, I have no idea!)

Once every 30 mins ... NO WAY. A VFR flight must not be undertaken above more than 4 oktas (SCT) otherwise VFR navigation is severely impeded by lack of reference to the ground and regular fixes for dead reckoning. I don't know anyone who can adequately navigate by dead reckoning over unfamiliar territory above BKN cloud. This is not only illegal but a dangerous practice.

 

Yes, when in flight it can be difficult to determine what sort of cloud cover is over top of you, as looking along the base it all looks pretty thick and close like BKN or OVC. A neat trick is to look at the cloud shadows on the ground. If there are more shadows than sunny spots then you have BKN cover. However, this trick doesn't work so well if you also have lots of high cloud shielding the sun and dulling the shadow effect.

 

When going above, or coming back under clouds, this must be done in a 'break' in the clouds. It seems to me you might need a rather big gap to get back down! What do you do if you can't find a big enouh cloud at the end of a cross country flight to get back down?

Well you can't stay up there that's for sure . The short answer for this is make sure you remain legal (and safe) and don't get caught above more than SCT cloud. Just make sure you get below the cloud before it closes up, or turn back until you are over less than BKN cover to make your descent. If you can’t fly safely under the cloud then you must change your plans and land at an alternate airfield until safe to proceed to your original destination (If you’ve time to spare, go by air). On the unfortunate occasion that you get caught, due to inattention of your surroundings (situational awareness we call it) DO NOT attempt to descend through just any old hole. First you must be absolutely certain of your position, that is, what is the terrain below the cloud where you intend to descend. Then you have to be absolutely certain of how much clear air you can expect between the cloud and the terrain where you intend to descend. In other words, if you can't be absolutely certain DO NOT attempt to descend through a hole. A further consideration of course is, is there likely to be any other traffic flying about under your cloud ... legally. You wouldn't want to spoil their day with a surprise visit I'm sure.

 

I hate giving this bit of advice as it may be interpreted as saying it’s OK to do, but in the interest of seeing you get down safely, I should add this. The only type of hole any pilot should consider descending through is something like a long, wide gap. This will give you the option of escaping if as you get closer to the ground you see that the cloud is too low. Power on and climb out through the same gap. Obviously your chosen gap needs to be pretty big, unless you have an F111 power plant on board. Never attempt to drop through a small hole as you will have no chance of getting back out, then you become a sad statistic that the rest of mourns over. As I said before, the short answer is DON’T DO IT.

 

It is legal to fly right at the bottom of the clouds if you are under 5000ft. (a bit sketchy on this one). Where does the 1000ft horizontal and 500ft vertical (those numbers may be wrong) limitations come into it?

Rules governing separation from cloud vary for different classes of air space. As a RA-Aus Pilot Certificate holder you are authorised to fly in class E and G areas only. Given that, below 10000’ you must have no less than 5km horizontal visibility and remain clear of cloud by 1500m on the horizontal plane and 1000ft below and/or above it. If at or below 3000ft AMSL or 1000ft AGL (whichever is higher) then the same 5km horizontal visibility but remain clear of cloud and in sight of the ground or water. Obviously, choosing to skim just under the cloud is risky. What if one of those IFR thingies drop through just as you’re passing by? What if your attention wanders to inside the cockpit for a moment, and it only takes a moment, then when you look back out all has gone sickly white?

 

Trust this helps,

 

Paul

 

 

[hihosland]

Strong endorsement to everything that Paul did say

 

plus

 

if perchance you do get caught above cloud

 

Use the radio !!!

 

Flight service, the radar guys, IFR traffic and other pilots all want to see you back safe and sound on the ground

 

don't get coy and try to hide the fact that you have managed to get yourself into trouble, use the help that is out there.

 

Davidh

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

The term OKTA is no longer used either in METARS or on ATIS transmissions to describe cloud cover due to the confusion with the term OCTA (Out of Controlled Airspace ) . Cloud cover is now described to as Scattered , Broken or Few , dependant on the level of cloud cover . Hope this helps and hasn't added to the confusion ..

David,

 

that is certainly the case, but I wasn't going to let a little detail like that get in the way of a good story:cool:

 

Many OKTAs of kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Yenn]

hihosland. Thats the best bit of advice so far. You may get hauled over the coals, but you will get all the help available and IFR traffic will be routed away from you. Having said that there is no sane reason for you being up above cloud anyway as you are a recreational pilot not doing it for a living.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Rules governing separation from cloud vary for different classes of air space. As a RA-Aus Pilot Certificate holder you are authorised to fly in class E and G areas only. Given that, below 10000’ you must have no less than 5km horizontal visibility and remain clear of cloud by 1500m on the horizontal plane and 1000ft below and/or above it. If at or below 3000ft AMSL or 1000ft AGL (whichever is higher) then the same 5km horizontal visibility but remain clear of cloud and in sight of the ground or water. Obviously, choosing to skim just under the cloud is risky. What if one of those IFR thingies drop through just as you’re passing by? What if your attention wanders to inside the cockpit for a moment, and it only takes a moment, then when you look back out all has gone sickly white?

Paul

It is also a requirement when operating 'clear of cloud' and at less than 1,000ft vertical separation that you remain on the area frequency. There is NO excuse for skimming along just under the cloud base without a radio.