Finally here!

[Guest johno]

G'Day All,

 

My name is John Oomen and I finally took up flying last April (2007). I live in Forbes NSW and have been tempted by the challenge of flying for many years.

 

After the last of our babies left home in 2006 and attending a Rotary District conference in Temora (doesn't that place just stir the flyer in us all?) I made a phone call to the first number listed against Forbes Aero Club and was greeted by a very cheerful young fellow that was only too happy to meet the following weeknd for a TIF. Four days later I was introduced to our local CFI, Darryl Gosper (thought he looked a little young to be training though) and have been hooked ever since. We trained in a Jabiru 160 and in January of this year I attained my RAAus certificate. A month later my X-country endorsement and at the end of February my wife Narelle and I flew the little Jab to Echuca for our first longish range excursion.

 

Not content to just sit back, I thought what's next? So, after discussions with my now trusted good friend Darryl, I started GA training. In the mean time Narelle and I decided we needed our own 'ship' because we have children and grand children spread from Cairns to Tasmania and thought we should make use of this new found freedom. We looked around at various kits and ultralights but decided we needed a 4 seater so we purchased a 40 year old Cherokee in which I am completing my GA training.

 

To myself and Narelle the experience of learning to fly has been a shared one. The Forbes Flying Club is the most social and accepting group of people that I have ever come across. They don't care if you fly or not but they all share the same passion in one form or another. The instructors are dedicated and understanding and Forbes has got to be one the safest places to learn to fly.

 

I suppose at 47 you may consider me to be experiencing mid-life-crisis, but the phone call I made to Darryl at the end of March 2007 changed our lives. I am really looking forward to getting out there and discovering a new world.

 

Thankyou for the opportunity to join your forum and share in the wealth of knowledge you have on tap. Really appreciate all the help RAAus has been, great bunch of people!

 

Cheers..... John

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

You can certainly buy a lot more aircraft if you are willing to buy an oldie - something you can't really do under RAA because none of the planes are that old. Bring on the 760KG rule and that $15K Tomahawk currently in Aviation Trader! :thumb_up:

 

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the Cherokee set you back and how many hours does it have? How many remaining before engine TBO? Which model did you get. (i.e.: how many horses?)

 

I haven't even finished RAA training yet and my wife was already asking if I could get a license for a 4-seater. At least she is supportive. :big_grin:

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Great post Johno.

 

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on rising to the challenge.

 

You're a lucky man to have a wife who wants to share the fun. Mine isn't the slightest bit interested and still hasn't been up with me.

 

Enjoy.

 

Ross

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Mine isn't the slightest bit interested and still hasn't been up with me.

Nor mine. Maybe we can go flying together and leave them at the coffee shop to gossip?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Mine is genuinely interested, but she doesn't really hide the fact that me having an expensive hobby makes it easier for her to justify her horse ownership. They may burn hay instead of 100LL but that doesn't mean their hangerage is any cheaper! ;)

 

 

[Guest johno]

You can certainly buy a lot more aircraft if you are willing to buy an oldie - something you can't really do under RAA because none of the planes are that old. Bring on the 760KG rule and that $15K Tomahawk currently in Aviation Trader! :thumb_up:If you don't mind me asking, how much did the Cherokee set you back and how many hours does it have? How many remaining before engine TBO? Which model did you get. (i.e.: how many horses?)

 

I haven't even finished RAA training yet and my wife was already asking if I could get a license for a 4-seater. At least she is supportive. :big_grin:

Yep... no substitute for experience. 40 is not old any more I've discovered;)

 

I guess for those of us that like to tour with something more than socks, undies and toothbush the 760Kg rule will be welcome. When we went to Echuca for 2 nights is was a bit of a challenge with full fuel.

 

I did take a good look at a few locally produced ultralights and test flew Gary Morgan's cheetah. We were just about to commit to the cheetah when we decided we needed more room. Pity, I really liked the Cheetah. Gary is building a 4 seat version I believe.

 

We found XDR in Melbourne for $48k. It's a 1968 P28A-140 which was upgraded to a 160 at the last OH. 1760TTR on both prop and engine, has dual controls and is in Night VFR. Next annual is due March, burns 32LPH @ 75% = 110kt. I've put 15 hours on her in the last month doing my navs and she flies like she's on rails. She's a great little 2 place tourer with luggage and a comfortable 3 or 4 place for short flights with no luggage.

 

Narelle was a little concerned to start with, so I arranged a TIF for her. After this she decided it was safe but didn't want to learn to fly. Instead Narelle thought it would be good to learn the basics from the right hand seat. I think it would be different if the kids were still dependent...

 

Narelle was my first passanger and it was exciting and scarey at the same time. The two people I treasure the most were blowing around tegether in a 250Kg fibreglass shell at 2500ft. I don't think like that any more. You've got a lot to look forward to.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

One of the problems with the 760 kg rule is that the max stall speed of 45 knots won't be increased, so a J230 won't cut it. A Cessna 152 will, but the Tomahawk is actually 1 kt over. Should be able to fit after market wing tips on that one to bring it in line, though.

 

Sounds like a nice plane. I recently flew a couple of hours in a C172 and it's not the greatest. I'll give the school's Warrior a go when I eventually get to PPL training - probably later next year.

 

Speaking of oldies, I also recently had an hour in a Fuji FA-200-160, which he also bought for about $40K. (25K Euros) It was a bit squeezy for me butt-to-pedals-length wise, but very nice to fly regardless - a lot lighter to handle than a C172.

 

Did you do much research on how much it maintenance is likely to cost you? I understand all of it needs to be done by a LAME, is that true? I would stay away from anything more complicated than batteries and oil anyway, but how much of the simple stuff could you do yourself?

 

I am looking forward to getting PAX endorsement and taking my wife up - if you are a fair weather aviator (and member of what Jim Davis calls the "Live Cowards Club") there really isn't anything more to worry about than, say, driving home on a dark rainy night - something nobody thinks twice about before doing...

 

 

[Guest johno]

Did you do much research on how much it maintenance is likely to cost you? I understand all of it needs to be done by a LAME, is that true? I would stay away from anything more complicated than batteries and oil anyway, but how much of the simple stuff could you do yourself?

Lots of research talking to LAMEs and owners comparing UL to GA looking at purchase price, maintenance costs and hangarage costs amongst other considerations.

Available hangarage is currently at a premium (non existant infact) in Forbes so initially looked at Morgan Aeroworks Cheetah because it could it was all metal and could be derigged and trailered very quickly. The thought of maintaining my own plane did not appeal to me from the safety aspect though. I'm happy to tinker with cars and bikes, but not planes.

 

All GA aircraft need to be serviced at least once a year or at 100hours by a LAME. Reported figures range from $3k to $5k and obviously more if something unusual occurs. Fuel burn for the Cherokee is 30% more than a Jabiru 3300 but the Cherokee carries more. We also decided that we wanted access to controlled APs like Canberra.

 

Based on a 10 year ownership plan we (with the help of our friends at the flying club) calculated that cost of ownership for the Cherokee was slightly more expensive, but comparable to the cost of ownership of an UL with similar endurance and performance over the long term. While the UL engines are less expensive, they appear to only have half the life at best when compared to a Cherokee and then there is the cost to replace and install and the problems that may creep in leading up to this. The Cherokee is 40 years old; the airframe is in good nick and the engine still good for another 10 years (so says my LAME) before the engine goes on condition. And yep... most work on the Cherokee has to be completed by a LAME. There is small list of approved tasks that the owner can perform, but again, if it involves going near anything too major I'll leave that to the LAME.

 

Either way we looked at it, unless we were prepared to build and maintain our own aircraft, there's nothing terribly cheap about flying in any class. All I know is that it will allow us to fulfill a few more dreams and create some new adventures.

 

Flying does something wonderful to your soul.... sharing that something is truely special... You'll enjoy the right hand seat being occupied by someone other than your instructor.

 

Cheers...

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions!

 

Available hangarage is currently at a premium (non existant infact) in Forbes

I see a lot of a/c just tied up outside here at Parafield, is it worth hangaring a 40 year old plane? Though of course the air is rather dry here and we don't get much in the way of storms or golf-ball hail.

 

the engine still good for another 10 years (so says my LAME) before the engine goes on condition.

What does that mean, "on condition"?

 

Either way we looked at it, unless we were prepared to build and maintain our own aircraft, there's nothing terribly cheap about flying in any class.

I have looked at kits, but by the time you add engines and avionics and other bits and pieces the decent ones seem almost as expensive as factory built. (and more expensive than some factory built ones with a few hundred hours on it) Plus you'll never be able to put it online somewhere as it is experimental.

What did insurance set you back? I spoke to a broker a while back who said 2-3% of replacement value for hull (2% for named, experienced pilot and 3% for anyone approved by, for instance, CFI), $700 for passenger injury and similar for liability. Does that sound right?

 

Cheers,

 

Bas.