Ewen McPhee Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Any tips on Night Circuits? Above is a photo of my son and I on final last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Oh, that's cheating, you have a PAPI!!!! ;) The illusions can feel very real, especially when accelerating and climbing away, I have felt like I was climbing vertically and had to trust instruments to maintain a good rate of climb. All I wanted to do was push down. thumb_down I've also had wake turbulence at night, I guess there wasn't enough wind to move it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen McPhee Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Oh, that's cheating, you have a PAPI!!!! ;) I agree makes it easier. The instructor has ingrained the need to be on instruments as soon as the red lights disappear below the nose. We were wondering about when you could look away from the instruments, as the instructor insisted on adjusting the RPM and Manifold pressures by ear rather than looking at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Illusions. The effect of acceleration (sensation-wise) is identical to being in a climb. When you pass over the far threshold and have no visual reference to the ground, you can have a big problem. Plenty of aircraft have been flown into the ground as a result of this illusion. Go on (and stay on) instruments at rotation and trust them. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen McPhee Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks - it was interesting that with moonlight we could see an horizon of sorts and the disorientation was not as severe as I expected Showing off my photos On Left Base Runway 06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 i remember falling victim to the false climb illusion during my NVFR. at bankstown it wasnt a problem, but departing mudgee at 9pm, away from the town, i felt its effects. somewho my instructor knew it was going to happen and was prepared, fortunatly i have never experienced it since.... now the black hole approach is scary.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relfy Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Excellent pics ewan. How do find the judging of the flare height? Do your lights give enough illumination of the runway surface? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Plenty of aircraft have been flown into the ground as a result of this illusion. Go on (and stay on) instruments at rotation and trust them. Nev.. Don't they recommend taking off towards some sort of light, ie township etc... to help with that? I'pose if you use and trust your instruments, it should be all good, but a bit of light under the nose certainly wouldn't go astray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen McPhee Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 They do recommend taking off towards lights to reduce the effect of the illusion. We did flare a bit high, as it was hard to judge the flare height. The Cessna's landing light was adequate for the task, but not perfect of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Reply. The light reference ahead helps a lot, but you cannot count on it being there all the time. Sometimes it it is moonless and no township lighting at all. Visual reference is a very strong counter to the illusions of all kinds that result from changes of direction and velocity. Your instruments may be the only source of replacement information. Just a comment on flare height. It would be "normal" to flare and hold-off a little higher. That is natural and common sense and is proper tecnique. IF the runway is black or wet, the light from the landing light is not particularly effective and you tend to rely on the sense af a flat "plane" defined by the side lighting. This is more difficult with lights on one side only,(as used to be the practice.) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 As Nev says, sometimes there isn't any light. Trying to land on lights in a black hole is interesting, and that's when I've had the somatographical illusion problem. Flying at places like Bankstown and Camden I haven't had it as there is plenty of light around, but flying from Bathurst I could feel it alright. Perhaps be aware of that, because if you do a nav to somewhere really dark you might not expect it. Flying in places with very little light makes it easy to find the runway though. Turn on the lights and bang, there it is. I'd recommend not descending too early on approach, it is harder to judge distance at night. If flying in areas with lots of light (around Sydney for instance) it is harder to locate anything. Towns seem to merge together, landmarks disappear, and runway lights are surrounded by so many others! Maybe use the heading bug in the runway direction for circuits - especially in a high wing where you can lose sight of the runway in a turn. I'm not so sure that fixating on any instrument is the way to go, rather than having a good scan, but I can see what your instructor is getting at. It is more important to get away from the ground and be in a positive rate of climb, then sort out the aircraft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen McPhee Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thanks for the tip about the heading bug, thats very useful :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Aids. The heading bug is a good idea as is getting used to timing the circuit. A good chronometer with stop capability is recommended. You have to be sure that you do not overbank and fly the circuit very precisely with heading-keeping and drift lay-off. This became very important for me one night at Rutherford when I entered fog on turning crosswind at 500' and by flying a timed circuit I was able to come back out of cloud at 400' on final with the RWY ahead of me in the right place. Not something that I would like to do too often. The night was as black as the insides of a cows guts and I had just helped put out the flares for a nights nightflying lessons and there was no sign of mist or fog and none was forecast so you can get caught....Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen McPhee Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Thats why I like these forums - experience talks volumes ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest check-in Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 This is a RA site and I did not know RA aircraft were allowed to fly at night. HOWEVER, should you get caught out after dark, don't panic. Know what RPM gives you what speed in level flight. Practice beforehand until you know how to hold it wings level with whatever instruments your RA aeroplane has. Keep it level, on course or with minimal heading changes until you see the airfield. Once you do see the airfield, keep it in sight all the way around the circuit, listening carefully for any changes in RPM. An increase in RPM will be the giveaway if you are descending and this is the greatest danger for the pilot who has no instrument flying experience. Also, there is an illusion at night that you are too high (because with fading light the ground seems further away than it really is). This is a killer! So, plan to make a longer than normal final approach so that you have time to reduce RPM and speed as you would normally without the additional workload of a descending turn at the same time. Where inexperienced pilots get killed at night is getting too low on base leg; hence unless you have had proper training in night flying, extending the downwind leg until you can join final at or near about 800 ft to fly a longer than normal final is probably safer than attempting the usual descending base turn. But night circuits are not to be treated lightly. I have seen experienced airline pilots accustomed to flying ILS approaches totally lose the plot doing 'black hole' circling approaches at unfamiliar airfields at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brett Campany Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 This is an RA site but all forms of aviation is welcome here. As for the night flying, I can clearly see that it's being done in a GA aircraft. No issues there what so ever as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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