I had my first flight in a J-170 today...

[metanoia]

The first 18 or so hours of my flying career were spent in the venerable 55-0940, a rather old Jabiru LSA/55.

 

Today, I had a flight in the new Jabiru 170 that has turned up at the flying school.

 

Even though they're from the same stable, there is a world of difference between the two aircraft. The J-170 is a much more comfortable aircraft, and it is obvious that a lot more thought has gone into its ergonomics.

 

This makes a big difference for a pilot/student like me - given that I am a little on the short side. Four things stand out:

 

1) The throttle is much better placed. In the Jabiru LSA/55, the throttle is placed between one's legs - and I always found that my view out of the windscreen changed when I was moving the throttle to or from full power. The J-170 has a panel mounted throttle - which I am still getting used to - but the beautiful thing about it is that my perspective does not change when the power does. Excellent :)

 

2) With a decent (and Jab-supplied cushion), the rudder peddles are much easier to reach and use. I used to use two cushions in the Jabiru LSA/55 and still found that it wasn't easy to get full rudder. In the J-170, if anything, I am finding that it is too easy to get full rudder.

 

3) The J-170 comes with a Y-shaped stick that does not seem to travel quite as far in the pitch or roll dimensions as the stick in the Jabiru LSA/55, and it seems that the controls are quite a lot more sensitive - something took quite a bit of getting used to.

 

4) While it can be a little more difficult to see what's happening in a turn to the left due to the longer wings, one gets a much better view out of the windscreen - especially if one is of shorter stature such as me. The view as I was turning from base to final for first time kind of shocked me actually... I didn't realise that there was so much to see outside! :)

 

If I have a complaint about the new jab, it would be with the placement of the flaps switch - in this aircraft. It is just forward of the stick, which means that setting flaps for landing means that I have to move my left arm across my body to reach the switch, whilst looking left occasionally to see where the flap is. If I had a choice, I think that I would have placed the flaps switch next to the throttle - and having two switches (one for the left seat, one for the right) if needs be. Having said that, it is much easier to use than the crappy flaps lever that is found in the Jabiru LSA/55.

 

All in all... while I hope to love a lot more aircraft yet, I have to say I want to spend a lot more time getting to know this beautiful aircraft :-)

 

 

[rescue]

Ditto on the 170 Flap Switch

 

Have to say I feel the same way about the 170 Flap Switch.

 

Found the older lever type on the 55 a lot easier to locate and operate when doing touch and go than finding and operating the switch on the 170. I also find it easier to know how much flap is deployed through 'feel' because the two simple detents of the lever ( 1st & 2nd stage ) than looking at the guage on the 170. Guess I will get used to it ...

 

0940 is a pretty hardy aircraft but problems with starting have led to me flying the 170 more often lately. I hope to get in the air during the week...

 

 

[metanoia]

It is a hardy aircraft, even if it is somewhat cantankerous to start - I hope that when its career is over it is given an honourable sendoff :)

 

Flying is out for me this week, and probably next as well. Oh well...

 

 

[Ultralights]

I actually enjoy flying the LSA/0940, its hard to fly well. help refine your skills.

 

the starting issue would have been resolved now, but Jabiru sent us a new Starter motor instead of a new alternator. :hittinghead: the way the LSA just keeps on keeping on, it will never retire!

 

 

[rescue]

G'day Ultralights... I like the LSA/55 as well

 

Still think the main reason it is hard to start now is because of the attachment point of the earth lead on the starter motor. Jabiru have indicated an fix which overcomes resistance throught the starter motor. Looking at the arc burns on the old starter I reckon the current is trying to find a new way to complete the circuit.

 

I do think 55's do teach you a few 'lessons' about flying that you may not gain from newer Jabs

 

Reckon you are correct about retiring it as well - still has a big heart ( even if due for a transplant :big_grin:)

 

PS. Is the booking system broken and has the web site collapsed ?

 

 

[shags_j]

Nice writeup.

 

Agree 100% on the flaps switch. If there's two things I think Jabiru could do better its 1. the flap switch and 2. the trim.

 

 

[BigPete]

Trim sensitivity is adjustable.

 

regards

 

 

[shags_j]

It's just that trim level that resets when you move the stick. I just could never get used to it. Give my a trim wheel or button anyday.

 

it is actually the only thing stopping me from buying a jab today. Maybe if I flew them a bit more I would get used to it.

 

 

[Ultralights]

PS. Is the booking system broken and has the web site collapsed ?

Nahh, the booking system is still running, but the site is being moved to another server/host or whatever as the old one was constantly being hacked, no idea why or by who.... but just ring one of the instructors and book.

as for 940. it has had problems recently but considering the hours its flown, its still quite reliable for a Jab. it will fantastic fun once it gets its new heart! might even outclimb the tecnam when its parts arrive from italy.

 

 

[dodo]

I agree on the flap switch - it's a pain.

 

But as a very low hours student, I find aircraft ergonomics are the last thing on any designer's mind. Throttles between the legs. Gauges located wherever they will fit. Cunningly hidden flaps switches with the guage carefully located out of the natural line of sight.

 

I know the engineering is more important, but the ergonomics seem an afterthought,

 

Jim

 

 

[Gibbo]

Trick I was tought with the electric flaps was to simply count 1.2.3.. That will help when you have a high workload. :) From 'memory' it takes 6 seconds for full actutation.

 

I do agree the flap switch placement sucks. I am a pretty big bloke and any movement in the cockpit is painful. I've taken a couple of jabs for a spin with the switch placement modification and it's much better. Not having to take your hand off the trottle can only be a good thing.

 

Rudder trim would also be a nice feature and shouldn't be to hard to knock up a cable based system. It's amazing the work out my right leg gets keeping constant pressure on the rudder.

 

 

[sfGnome]

The 160 that BlackRod and I fly has just had a panel revamp - out with the Glass and in with the steam driven gauges. That's allowed the top of the dash to be lowered by quite a distance, meaning that shorty here can fly without cushions. Much more comfortable, and I didn't miss the glass at all.

 

To pretend that I'm still on topic, I'd always assumed that all Jabs had 2 flap switches, one either side. I was staggered when I saw a cockpit picture a few weeks back with the one switch in the middle. Forget about ergonomics - what about safety? thumb_down

 

 

[shags_j]

One of many things the Tecnam has over most other lsa's. It has a really low (high) attitude. The horizon sits about 3/4 of the way up the windscreen giving you a fantastic view.