Mike Gearon

The shocking parts are use of “elderly” and “pensioner” for a 64 y.o.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Seems the original poster would deeply regret the comments and would wish the post away if possible. That would make this post bullying. Haven’t seen it since school quite some years ago so I’m a bit rusty on bullying. Hence the question.

Hey now there's a thought, that would be cool but scary too!?

Most definitely the final word on lightweight flying. The rudder is still foot operated and hand /arm operated ailerons so it’s pretty much an aircraft ?

I googled fogging problems in boats just for the hell of it. Wouldn’t call it conclusive.... let’s go with interesting. Big difference when your boat conks out on departure and somebody tows you in or you start the 4hp backup to get back home.

Here is a procedure others seemed to agree with.

‘Spraying it through the spark plug holes is not the way to fog an engine. It has to be running and you fog it until it almost stalls then throw a big rag over the carb to stall it. That way it coats the intake, valves and cylinders. Been doing it for years on the boat engines. Never had a problem’

https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads/dont-think-ill-ever-use-fogging-oil-again-anybody-else-have-problems.2030033/

Oh I like Cert GA just getting too expensive is all I sometimes fly a mates Savage Cub, cheap as ?

I’ve been graduating downward from GA to LSA to ultralight. No sure what’s lighter after this. Probably powered hand gliding. My own experience is it becomes more fun and more real as you get lighter and less around you. Especially the wind in the face Quicksilver flying I was doing in Philippines. Good luck and have fun.

I have posted this info before but given the current circumstances I feel it is relevant. For the last year I have worked part time as an ame just because I love all aircraft?, I have learned a lot. The engine in the first pic had a ground run prior to a 100hourly, I removed the rocker cover 24 hours later, the water comes from the combustion process and wasn't burned off due to not reaching operating temperature for long enough. The second pic is my engine taken 24 hours after FLIGHT, about a week after the first pic and similar weather, it was completely dry. One can imagine the water droplets being evenly distributed throughout the crankcase and bores below the piston, not good. I will not be ground running my engine.[ATTACH type=full" alt="Resized_20190712_082839_6570.jpeg]52193[/ATTACH][ATTACH type=full" alt="Resized_20190720_151601_9159.jpg]52194[/ATTACH]

It’s posts like this make it all (forum wise) worthwhile. Noted! ??

Don't take it personally, perhaps the post was more about internet forums than aviators., although there is come crossover there.

The old AUF crowd used to be a fairly humble lot, but increasingly I find that trait to be disappearing.

 

Have a trawl back through the accident and incident threads.....you might see what I mean.

 

On the positive side, knowing that if I am to have a bingle, and that on certain internet forums I would be talked about and ridiculed gives me some extra incentive (and I already have considerable incentive) not to roll my plane in a ball..

It’s nice to see your rationale expanded upon.Difficult enough with our/ my own internal dialogue without having to consider a fan club cheering on your potential misfortune. These would indeed be keyboard pilots that are nasty people.

A note on that internal dialogue and the subject at hand.....

I make a living as an inventor. I seem to pretty much the absent minded one portrayed in movies etc. Wasn’t going to take up flying specifically for this reason. However, I just have to do it better. At home and work it’s strict systems that make everyday life work. Transition points from work to gym to home and emails, invoices etc all have a disciplined approach or it’d be impossible. Living in 3 countries has its own nightmares we won’t go into.

Anyway, to stay on track here.... I’m really disciplined in my flying procedures. Go through them in the car on way to airport. Plan carefully. Run checklists precisely. All the stuff we are supposed to do. When flying I’m running the numbers near the airport and ground manoeuvres etc and do allow a bit of relax time to just enjoy the scenery when safe to do so. Back to strict routine when required.

I’m also on here looking at things that have gone wrong for others as a learning experience and trying to live it with the pilots that suffered the misfortune that ended up with us writing about them. It’s unfortunate that it’s easiest done when the accident is current and I absolutely get that we need to consider the families and friends.

Incidents.... The terrible recent 2 plane accident made me decide not to do IFR training when I return to the USA. I have my GA training and I think I have the discipline if caught in cloud to fly instruments out. I’ve run this in my head and just like in the check ride I’d make very small corrections with a relaxed hand. I’d stick almost completely in the instrument scan while getting 180 degreees about and proceeding back and hopefully out of cloud. The way to pretty much guarantee a spiral dive in my mind would be to panic and stare out the window into the gray mist. I guess that happens and it was stressed and imprinted firmly that without recent training we have just a little time before spiral dive. Helicopter pilot in USA as case in point with IFR training. I’ll just stay clear of cloud and check weather as the main plan.

The other theme running here is bloody forums. Still the same from when I used to be heavily involved in one.....A small number of prolific posters. A huge number of lookers (I’m not being critical and may return to onlooker) A number of trouble makers, politicians, practical common sense types and the obligatory comedians.

I’m unsure about continuing involvement. My personal criteria is if things bother me as a poster and I’m taking them away to worry over then I shouldn’t be involved. The good still outweighs the bad here. The learning and community sharing is here in abundance And likely worth supporting.

Given that we haven't found new ways to kill ourselves while flying since somewhere around the thirties, I get the impression that while most will say they want to "learn" from the incident. The reality is that its just a macabre fascination, some schadenfreude and a desire to be right.

Everyone puts forward their theory, and when and if the investigation is complete, someone will get to say "I knew it! ... I told you so".

It’d be nice if that wasn’t true.

When I was learning to fly there had been an incident at Tooradin somewhat recent past. The pilot bounced then proceeded to porpoise and screwed up the plane. I both distressed and then impressed my FI very early in lessons with a fairly decent bounce and power on go round. Had the pilots accident well learned and procedure ready. I’d really hope that is what’s happening here. Either learning or refreshing rules to fly by.

I would have gone flying this morning, it is always so beautiful with the low cloud on the hills after rain. The motorbike was almost as much fun.[ATTACH type=full" alt="Resized_20200410_101907_6731.jpg]52176[/ATTACH]

Homesick, I’d have enjoyed bogging that motorbike. Beautiful area ?

Manitoba initially then take an aircraft across to Quebec for a months spraying spruce budworm. After that back to the prairies for a couple of months. Haven't given up yet.

Good luck with that. My plans look shot. Which part of the prairies? The flat part?

It is particularly disconcerting when experienced pilots come to grief. You have the dubious experience of having witnessed this particular incident, so probably have a better idea of what may have occurred. From my reading of all the previous posts, no one is saying what 'did' happen, only what 'might' have gone so catastrophically wrong in this instance, absent corroborating information. I think I speak for all when I say that no disrespect is intended toward those involved, their families and friends.

 

I am a relatively low-hours 'wannabe' pilot (but I don't hit the keyboard very often :) ), and it concerns me greatly every time I read of yet another light aircraft accident, often with very experienced pilots at the helm. What is it that rears up and bites them on the ****??? Again... and again... and again. Allow me to gain the most benefit from others mistakes by considering at length what 'might' have gone so wrong. Personally I feel that contemplating numerous possible scenarios significantly lessens the chance of my making fatal errors in future.

 

As a side note, I would have refrained from highlighting that line above in bold red type... that is much more likely to be read by anyone perusing this forum, rather than commentary buried within a paragraph in normal type font. I understand the need for sensitivity in posting, but that needs to be balanced with the intent to educate other forumites. I assume the poster in question has some experience with burn injuries, and I now know something I didn't know before.

 

No offence intended, and posted with respect for all.... particularly those numerous experienced 'keyboard wannabe pilot' forum members who contribute so much to this site by sharing their collective, often hard-earned wisdom.

Well said. I was upset seeing the post and wanted to consider a response/ give the forum away/ consider it more.

I’m in a very similar position hours wise. I’m hopefully getting the right amount of worry into my takeoffs including a steady aloud or internal discussion on abort on runway, land straight ahead and 30 degrees or return with a visual map ahead of me as I go through. I had one FI pull power after take off. In cornfield country so it was a pretty easy decision on straight ahead. I thought it was real and did okay.

So, the good part is obviously keeping these foremost in our thinking and this thread like many others could save a life or lives.

The bad is well explained in the angry post. I’m new and trying to go slow and behave (believe it or not) I’d also not seen the note from admin. Missed it completely and surprised to find after flyboy posted and I went back.

I’ll take this as a learning experience and try hard to be respectful of all involved. Hopefully the passenger in care will make a full recovery. My thoughts are with the family and also with the family of the pilot who lost his life.

I’ll also apologise for my contribution as a keyboard pilot. As you’ve indicated (flyboy) the plane was turning left. I was a little hung up on the incorrect roads reported and thought that was contributing to speculation of a turn. Not the case.

You can see if stock are not acting normally, a flyblown blown sheep will walk/act differently to it's friends. You can see tracks through a fence if it's been pushed over, all from 500 feet. Big places it's very practical for stock/fence/tank inspection.

Going for a fly for inspection of some sort would be a more valid excuse than going to your holiday house on the central NSW coast for the weekend

That’s true. Cattle same. You look out for one on its own. It’s calving or it’s sick. You also see all the animals clumped around a trough and you know you’re out of water and in big trouble.

Also.....we have the Asian examples of getting on top of this really quickly. China and Taiwan as examples. Not sure about China. Taiwan is transparent. Reports and updates are factual. Just a handful of new cases each day in Taiwan and almost all are imports.

Once countries bring their own epidemics under control and stop exporting it we have the Asian examples. Normal really isn’t far away. It just doesn’t look that way right now. Well, I’d say normal based on my life here in Taiwan just involves temp checks everywhere and mask wearing. Not a big price to pay to get on with a relatively normal life.

Latest seems to be a flattening in USA and I noticed same in Australia. Just 54 new cases in Australia. Taiwan has just 1 new case today. Quite remarkable. I visited a factory, supermarket and Japanese restaurant today. All temp checked us and factory required mask wearing.

Chefs and staff at Japanese masked and they even burn the corona virus off your food.

There is certainty in this case. Even if powerlines weren’t seen they are at tree height next to trees. Also, the multi line is away from trees and likely visible. Additionally this is right near the airport and the pilot would know them well. Unfortunately!

Well your all guessing and all wrong (mostly), engine was running till impact and making power. No right turn, actually turning left (for some reason)

Well, from accident scene on the correct corner (not the news report corner) it looks like the aircraft departed that runway then within 5-600m ditched in. At say 60 knots that’s about 10 or 11 flying seconds.

Unless the departure was a different runway that aircraft flew off the runway and directly ahead only seconds later hit the wiring and trees. It can’t have turned at all.

Yes you are correct John, unfortunately at this time, one confirmed fatality and one serious and taken to hospital. The aircraft just didn't make power on takeoff and it was like it was only slightly revving not producing full power. They crashed into trees about 1 km from the runway and never gained enough height to clear the tree line. There were so many other options available including three roads right where they crashed which could have been used very happily for landing. I know they say don't turn back but one of these roads is only about 30° off the runway heading and is clear 20 m either side so it is about five times wider than the runway they just came off. None of it makes much sense at the moment, rescuers were on-site within minutes because they witnessed the takeoff. There was also a small fire. RA-Aus are investigating

News report had the intersection wrong. It’s as you’ve indicated based on ABC reported roads

ABC report.......As the plane made a right turn, it clipped an overhead telephone cable and crashed 25 metres from the intersection of Stapylton Jacobs Well Road and Cabbage Tree Point Road near the Heck Field airstrip.

Actual intersection is really close to take off. 5-600m If it was as I’ve indicated with yellow line the plane was unlikely to have been making a right hand turn at virtually ground level. Looks like a take off and power loss and not sure how anybody could have improved on the outcome without a bit of luck.

That figure is incorrect it was 35 on respirators yesterday and 96 in ICU.

That’s a worrying figure. The curve in Australia is flattering as a sign of hope. People in authority need to be held accountable for that shipload of virus cases. 600 of the 2700 walked off the ship with the virus and without even a temperature check. Ruby Princess/ Diamond Princess. You’d think that’d have raised alarm bells. Complacent, clueless or dismissive decision makers need to be held accountable.

In terms of saying only old or people with preexisting conditions getting is so who cares? A friend of my son is a doctor at John Hunter working in ER and we have been chatting, he would like to point out that the many medics around the world who have died were not necessarily old or have preexisting conditions but are otherwise healthy however it also comes down to the viral load. Intubating a patient causes many droplets. One problem these are not droplets but more like an aerosol. Pre Existing conditions are important but so is viral load.

Yes, the Wuhan ophthalmologist was young and apparently viral load from proximity was part of the reason he died.

I’ve noted an ongoing interest in allowing the virus to run its course. Always interested in which family or friends are acceptable to lose with a strategy of herd immunity.

The economy can and will recover with good governance and management of debt. The dead will remain dead.

At the risk of reviving the Trump discussion... I note today that he only receives visitors who’ve had an instant test for the virus. No wonder he can be so cavalier about not wanting to wear a mask!

Mike it's not so much the track that matters, it's the turning couple between the side load on the mains and the C of G when the plane deviates from a straight line and does a turn. Centripetal? Force. Nev

Well, I’m starting to understand C of G and elevator induced load on that tail wheel plays a part. Looking at the whole dance going on as the aircraft puts weight on that rear wheel then starts to influence and potentially command the tail ends track. We have the fact that removing the tail wheel from the ground will remove its influence.

Returned to rudder directed rear swing.

Put the tail wheel back on the ground very lightly and it isn’t going to do much. Add back elevator and it’s more able to influence the aircrafts track. In a straight line and continuing straight all is well. Now, we add a rudder or one side brake induced influence on the tail wheel. The heavier the elevator pressure the less likely the rear wheel can move off track.

So, because I want to ground loop I’ll need to remove elevator pressure. As the body of the aircraft is swinging around I’ll have a small amount of time during which the elevator will remain useful to regain tail wheel purchase on the runway if I suddenly lose interest in ground looping as a new experience.

However, it won’t be long before the plane is so side on to the airflow that the elevator is useless.

At some point along the way the front wheel track has the inside wheel of the beginning loop also gaining much more command over the planes former interest in proceeding straight ahead. It’s at this point my example of a wide front wheel track comes into play and the aircraft could possibly be brought back to its former course.

In the process of writing this I also see my former expectation the wider wheel track is more stable remains true. It’s however far more important to have the tail wheel firmly in touch with the ground. Particularly as the aircraft slows and it would seem logical that it is when the planes lower inertia and less airflow command combine the narrower ground track could swing the back end around no matter how much elevator is applied as it’s becoming useless.

I don’t even want to think about brakes. Maybe my summer USA plan to learn tail wheel isn’t a good one or it’s a really exciting challenging one?

I’m definitely not an aeronautical engineer. You can tell by the sketch above. Engineers call it “design by crayon”

However, this is how I design. I am a reasonably successful designer. Exaggerate the problems and look at them. Not saying you’d want to be flying plane A Best. Can’t imagine you could get it into a flying attitude until about 100 knots. Maybe it’d stay stalled the whole time. You’d take off by flying an over the hill runway. Plane B has a prop that is digging into the ground. It’s not going anywhere. Now, keeping in mind I’ve yet to pilot a tail wheel I think I’d land plane A best with bugger all chance of ground looping.

Here is surprisingly still good. Just 7 cases yesterday. All imports. 3 picked up at airport temp check and 4 from monitored quarantine.

Yes. 4 weeks. Hoping Australia dodges the worst of this. Seems everything is being done that can be done. My wife gives me daily reports from French island. 100 people on 40,000 acres is pretty good social distancing. People came over on ferry and raided the little local French island shop.

Taiwan has the supermarket raids on noodles and toilet paper. Prime minister here dared people to try and buy it all. Said they couldn’t and I’m always impressed that the stock keeps reappearing over about half shelf space daily. She might be right!

Testing number is a good point when looking country by country.

Noted the following highlights from WSJ and The Age today.

Japan is doing limited testing. Even the prime minister questions this.

Sample quantities of 2,000 people in given European communities are being tested to see “what the iceberg looks like”. That seems a very smart move.

Italy and Spain in such serious trouble traced back to a single football match in Feb. 35% of the Spanish team/ crew came home with virus. That’s a shocking number!

China is busy polishing the turd they gave the world with the hope of spinning a different narrative.

Germany. Some 60% polled last week didn’t think quarantine was something they’d bother too much with and some 40% thought the virus wasn’t a big deal.....hopefully that’s changed this week and it does reflect the west’s attitude up until very recently.

Thought I’d write that out while still retained. It’ll all leak out in the next few hours ??

The 2017 flu season killed 1255

The current prediction by the Deputy Chief Medical officer of Australia for Covid-19 remains at 50,000 best case, 150,000 worst case.

It's too early to be making sweeping statements since the transmissions within the Australian population have just started, and the peak is expected this month or May.

There is some cautious optimism given that our stepped isolation programme has worked so well, testing in the past few days went from 2,000 to 4,000 to 100,000 and there is now a massive testing team to track down the spread of the virus, and we've had time to massively increase the number of ICU and Ventilators, but both State and Commonwealth CMOs are pointing out that, like fighting a bushfire, getting it under control, and a strong wind springing up, this virus is capable of massive flaring.

Without a doubt the actions taken to date have bought us time and that time has radically improved our current situation.

It’s really encouraging. I’m looking in from Taiwan and dreading seeing the daily Australian figures. Hopeful it reduces now. For the mathematically literate checking on Coronavirus Update (Live): 860,927 Cases and 42,364 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer the figures show that countries that are overwhelmed such as Italy are losing around 10%. Countries with robust health care systems and smaller outbreaks (Taiwan for example) have a very low death rate. It’s also related to time with the illness. The young doctor in Wuhan who raised the alarm died from corona virus some weeks after contracting it. Unfortunately USA is an example of early days and being overwhelmed. Hoping the USA can crank their big industrial machine and get the equipment out to save lives. Drugs, breathing assist devices, protective equipment and test kits. A deluge of fast test kits. Australia is still well behind based in last news report I saw. Should be able to get a test if you’re not well. Not if you meet stringent criteria.

For those advocating herd immunity or exposure of young health care workers that particular death (the Wuhan doctor) shows you’d be killing some of them. A single death is obviously to be avoided. Let alone whole groups of deaths.

Taiwan might be in trouble right now. Tomorrow is tomb sweeping. My staff are leaving early to travel around the island to family homes for a 4 day holiday. It’s the same all over Taiwan. Yes, gatherings are limited. However, complacency is creeping in. It’s not a major concern to have groups gathering. Taiwan also has problems with its success. Taiwanese are coming home from UK, Australia, USA etc. They have to observe voluntary 14 day home quarantine. It is a big fine of broken. Some 50k AUD and that’s a few years wages for most. They also have phone monitoring and government visits to check their health.

Hope all stay safe.

I’ve spent a little time on a few other flying sites. Had been a lot of years since being on forums. I have to commend you (Ian/ admin) on your fortitude and persistence. Had no idea it could go so wrong. I’ve just read a few threads that left me feeling like I needed to wash my hands. Well, more than the current trends toward vigorous hand washing ?

Not seen anything remotely similar here. It’s as expected. Rich with information and I’ve since discovered the non technical area I can go and discuss silly stuff. I’ve discovered the article section. Yeah, just wanted to say I’m really impressed and this thread seems to be the one to express it. Glad you’re on reserve tank and have a bit of gas to keep going.

Good points, Mike. You're right that some who post on here have copped a bit of flack, but mostly if they hadn't seemed to recognise the error of their ways.

 

In Australia we love to criticise the authorities -it's almost a requirement for getting citizenship- and CASA gets plenty.

However, in defence of our aviation regulator, they also encourage pilots to be candid about their mistakes, so that others can learn the lesson. They even pay you $500 to tell the story of how you stuffed up.

I wrote one these stories:

https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/closecalls/

So, if you’re busy discussing how you love to buzz the neighbours while tracking undulating terrain at 100ft AGL it’s not going to go well for you. I read a couple of those in the accident reports.

One could infer that a few people are even still breathing/ flying because they pushed the limits here and pulled back. That’d be a win.

The $500 is a great idea. It’d be interesting to play find the Old Koreelah story ? I’ll hope to never add a story. I have my own story but it’s not worth writing up. Just a problem of anatomy leading to control surface problems. More simply... my stupid big feet and long legs meant over a long cross country my feet were riding up rudder pedals and I took off and landed a few times with really bad rudder control. Went a bit wrong and could have been much worse for a few take offs and landings before I figured it out. It definitely wasn’t in the manuals and wasn’t on anything I’d read. I always wiggle rudder pedals and check heel position now.

I noticed on a Brit site they referred to CHIRP with a similar function.