Ian

7 minutes ago, Possum1 said:

What we don't need is RA-AUS counselling against this because it would impact their business model

Personally I think that there is a strong conflict of interest in this area which should be articulated by the commitee, and a key requirement being harmonization of the medical requirements between the different streams of aviation.

19 hours ago, facthunter said:

Seriously, why would CASA put itself out on a limb for No likely benefit to their reputation as THE SAFETY AUTHORITY and expose itself to a lot of flak when/If things go pear shaped.

Because it's a win, both politically and for people in these areas, It is a good thing.

Government in Australia is about the delivery of common goods. There is a clear and justifiable common good associated with this activity which is why they should nurture and support it. Their primary consideration should be safety however they should use a risk based approach which incorporates all factors including the fact that regional areas have demonstrably poor health outcomes. I don't think their approach came anywhere close to these goals. As I've stated a risk based approach would be better as well as allowing the consumers of the service to participate in this risk process.

I'm aware that there are those in the aviation sector and CASA who think that Angel Flight is a shanker on the prick of aviation, however I think that view is wrong. Volunteer work when properly supported an nurtured can complement and fill areas of need which are difficult to prototype and fill. Often volunteer or charitable services are more efficient mechanisms for delivering services.

For example the RFDS was originally a completely charitable organisation without Government support which combined two new technologies to pilot and prototype a new type of service and the Federal Government provides funding of 1B over the next 10 years.

16 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I've been on RFDS as a Patient but it was a Beech 1900.. I had to transfer to an ambulance at Essendon. Dog knows what it all cost. Your U/L won't run cheaper than most cars.. Nev

The whole point isn't about cost, its about access. Angel Flight as a charity covers the cost. The fact that someone is considering using an U/L for a service which people in metro areas take for granted is telling. It's the sheer dislocation associated with the process which is inherently difficult.

As I said, rather than wasting time and efforts commenting here reach out to the political elite to make sure that the Government bodies which are meant to support aviation continue to do so.

One of the reasons that I think that experimental aircraft should be included in the mix is that based on recent trends these aircraft will eventually dominate the fleet. For Angel Flight to continue to work aircraft need to be available.

36 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

Read the reports;Read the reports; see just exactly what the pilots did to unsuspecting patients.

Its nonsensical to assume a job normally done by a pilot (a) qualified on operations requiring a safe start and safe end on fixed time departure flights (b) qualified on the aircraft suitable for doing that (c) IFR qualified with currency based on weekly IFR flights, can be copied by an old fart escorting passengers to a base touring aircraft and phoning the patient's sister for Met (not referring to any of the flights).

 

As others have mentioned, these are not medivac flights, but a means of moving people from regional airports to the city or back for free.

This is not a job normally done by a qualified pilot. It's normally done by a family member or some other sap and it's not without risk. A relative died in a car accident on a country highway on her way back from medical treatment in a head on accident. My father had to travel over 5 hours each way to receive treatment for a bone infection for a number of months in Brisbane by car because RPT wasn't available at suitable times. This is common story for people in these areas and any volunteer support to these people is good. He is more than capable of acknowledging the risk that Angel flight wouldn't provide a service as safe as commercial air transport.

There's a perception that those running small aviation businesses connected to CASA have an axe to grind and think that Angel Flight is interfering with their revenue stream. The reality is that it is unlikely that Government is going to fork out the requisite funds to improve these health outcomes, at least without something demonstrating the concepts feasibility. There is also leads to a inherent conflict of interest when these parties are involved in the debate. Angel flight has a wide support amongst the RPT transport pilots, no so much with the small aviation operators.

If the funding did become available to provide free medical flights as required then the whole reason for the existence of Angel flight would disappear however even in this scenario there would likely still be gaps. I actually think that significantly wider adoption of angel flight could form the basis of wider ranging business case for better public funding in this area.

The reality is that there are literally thousands of excess of deaths in regional and rural areas and while increasing the scope of RPT to provide twice daily flights to all these areas back to capital cities would be the best and safest solution it's not likely to happen.

To me Angel Flight is an example of "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". There is nothing inherently wrong with providing a "free" service to people in need and it's the context of the risk that is important.

I've got a pretty thick skin and would be happy to have a beer and chat with flying bikini without resorting to fisticuffs. 😉

18 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

OKaaay…. Lets try again. Ian, reference the research paper under discussion:

 

 

* The actual locations of the airports - How can I identify which airports are referenced ?

 

* The size of the airports. 

 

* The actual locations of the various groups re distance from airport. Were they all located near one airport, or were they spread around.

 

* The locations of toxic waste dumps. To add to my comments - Airports because of their size and late arrival to City/town development tend to end up in the old dump area or low lying swamp area etc, or have heavy industry located around them.

 

* And yet. The other paper I referenced, whilst talking housing, does not mention airports.

 

 

Ian, as you seem to have access to all this extra info, perhaps you can answer the actual points I raised..🙂 

It's not my job to do your homework even though I did provide you with the EPA document which has instructions on how to download their datasets over the internet.

The bottom line is that there are a number of reports with similar findings. (also referenced in the biblio) Given the fact that the petroleum industry also has access to the same Government grants don't you think that if there was the slightest chance that the research was bogus they'd be in there "boots and all"  demonstrating the counter argument.

If you read the paper it explains the methodology and where they got their data. Your side of the argument is spurious and consists of lots of handwaving, rather than rational considered thought. 

Knocking down your arguments is about as exciting and challenging as shooting fish in a barrel.

For example, you have made multiple reference that sea water and sea spray is a source of lead, trying to equate leaded fuel exposure to family friendly activities like visiting the beach. (Classic handwaving/misdirection argument by the way)

On 07/09/2022 at 2:10 PM, Flying Binghi said:

I see sea spray has lead in it. That would explain why surfers are so dumb

13 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

….Yeah… don’t breath in sea spray - or if yer a fish don’t eat that stuff, because as it moves up the food chain the heavy metals, leads one of em, accumulates and then

18 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

“Source A, B…”… There is lead in sea spray. Are you suggesting that we ban going to the beach? Any adult who believes that nil lead is the only acceptable level would never take a child within miles of the sea side. Or creeks, or vegetables, or……

Would you be able to explain your belief in this as you've mentioned it many times. Or point to any research that indicates that people living near the coast have statistically higher levels of lead or something to hang your hat on in this regard. Basically the reverse is true, as the chloride in the salt ie sodium chloride, tends to form compounds with lead that precipate out of the water.

Otherwise I'd like you to eat a bit of humble pie and admit that you were well an truly waaayyyy off base with this claim. I mean different planet off base. (This doesn't mean your whole argument is wrong though but it does create a couple of credibility issues though)

If you think about basic chemistry you'd understand why this is so. It also explains why those undersea vents which you were fond of mentioning deposit lead out of solution. 

However the oceans are big and the huge slug of lead that we've pumped into the oceans will take a long time to settle out in the deeper water.  This is also why uranium is pretty much uniformly distributed through the oceans and lead is not.

However we have gone a long way from the topic of why the GAMI initiative is so important and a good thing for the aviation community.

Especially in airports that have a large population centres nearby as we can substitute unleaded fuel to counter arguments that we're poisoning children. (Which the research says we're doing)

Which I think everyone will agree is better than shutting them down.

Some aircraft may require active treatments like  MW50 or water injection. It worked for the germans in WW2

1 hour ago, Thruster88 said:

In this discussion I am more interested in the pitot aspect than the medical.  If you are suggesting the answer to the mount Gambier crash that killed two innocent victims was for the non instrument rated pilot to press the blue button then you are just another muppet like that person flying the tb10 was.  Have you read the report and looked at the inbound track and weather at time of departure? 

No I'm not however the compounding effects of poor decisions may have been mitigated by better technologies. Yes multiple decisions which in hindsight were poor, however in the final instance assistive technologies may have helped. The pilot ultimate ended up in a situation beyond his abilities to manage. Expecting people to consistently make good decisions completely ignores the track record of flying accidents.

Seatbelts in modern cars don't mean that you should drive in a more reckless manner however they do save lives. Technology in RPL has demonstrated it's ability to reduce the accident rate by reducing pilot workload.

8 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

Therefor, by not going to the beach you are removing a source of lead exposure. 

Where do you get the notion that going to the beach exposes you to lead?

Lead in water needs to remain soluble, however aqueuas lead is poorly soluble  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_chloride

Or from another of those dodgy government publications ]

https://www.waterquality.gov.au/anz-guidelines/guideline-values/default/water-quality-toxicants/toxicants/lead-2000

• Lead speciation in seawater is dominated by chloride complexing, which becomes negligible at salinities below approximately 6%. Hence increasing salinity reduces toxicity.
• Lead can bioaccumulate in aquatic organisms but it is generally not available at sufficient concentrations to cause significant problems.

You may also note at the beginning of this article it states that

Quote

Anthropogenic outputs of lead to the environment outweigh all natural sources (e.g. weathering of sulfide ores, especially galena)

So it's those pesky planes fueled on pure lead poising the planet 😉

Anyway this is a silly argument. Leaded fuels will be removed from circulation in the near future and future generations will be astounded that it took so long.

ps I wouldn't invest in plane that struggles with unleaded fuel. (remember with investment it's the timing that's important)

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I blame the specialists themselves and the govt which pays the bills for the situation. Specialists are the only trade where the existing practitioners can decide that they don't want any new entrants. Guess what? they all get millions a year.

I agree there is a strong conflict of interest area the medical specialists area however that's not the whole story.

The real culprit has been the rise of industrial medicine and mega hospitals. The equipment and capabilities associated with a high grade hospital facility make it tempting financially to have fewer larger hospitals. However the side effect of this is that people away from capital cities no longer have access to these systems.

For example a high end MRI done in a capital city hospital may provide a significantly better scan than the low end systems available. A 3T scanner gets you to a resolution of about 1mm and there are now 14T MRIs. Your garden variety one is 1.5T with about 2.5mm resolution with few scan capabilites.

4 hours ago, walrus said:

That translates to 1 - 2 visits a month with a six hour round trip which makes an overnight stay pretty much essential

This is one of the factors why, as soon as you leave the major metro centres that life expectancy declines significantly. The burden in time and financial expense of leveraging appropriate health services is too high.

From an image perspective I think that this has a lot to offer the aviation community and reinforces the public goods that maintaining a local airfield provides.

as opposed to something like leaded fuel 😉

2 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Seems you don’t know of the ‘crisis’ in medical research. Over 70% of medical research papers have been found to be crap.

 

With those odds I probably didn’t even need to read the research paper to be confident of giving it the ‘crap’ rating

Maybe, however I'm not sure where you got the 70% figure from. If its facebook, brietbart, youtube etc. I'm not really interested, research from a peer reviewed journal, major university or Government sponsored paper might get my attention. Yes there are problems with people falsifyng research however they're generally weeded out and disgraced however all in all it's the best source of information. 

I gave you the paper which provides the EPA airport data as well as the estimates lead emissions from each site.

3 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

And yet, as the Oz government data shows - there is natural lead everywhere in the environment - in the food we eat, in the creeks we swim in. 

 

This is a furphy which you have repeated a number of times but it's just not true. While lead occurs in the environment naturally, everything that I've read states it typically only occurs at very low levels. Do you have any research which shows these high levels of naturally occurring lead?

The vast majority of lead pollution be it around Broken Hill or in inner city precincts is man made not natural. For example the picture shows lead in older areas when it was a commonly used industrial compound. By the way it's Sydney.

This organization https://www.360dustanalysis.com/  has been doing soil analysis is here  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412021002075?via%3Dihub

5 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

If yer keen why not just put the word out to a few country Dr’s that your aircraft is available as a free taxi service.

If the Doctor covered the expenses, it would be reasonable but angel flight already has a good operating model

To help offset the pilots’ operating costs Angel Flight Australia subsidises fuel used on flights, negotiates the waiver of landing fees at many supporting airports around the country, and arranges the credit of any air navigation charges thanks to the support of Airservices Australia.

Angel flight specifically requires a referral from a health professional.

Also the scope of activities which are excludes are

It doesn't impact me however my glasses have lightweight flat metal arms. So no not personally.

Straight arm glasses exist for aviatiors

And helmets with integrated visors, that way you get head protection and oxygen as well

5 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

It’s Crap research

Given your willingness to contest the vast majority of climate change research your definition of crap research could be considered somewhat arbitrary. When reading research papers, especially ones from good sites and journals check the bibliography. Unlike facebook and headline grabbing news sites that people often quote as gospel.

The research appears reasonable and is based on the following

• North Carolina has an acknowledged lead problem and they have a program of testing for lead in children. This includes their place of residence and the age of residence in many cases.
• Rather than forcing the lead issue without solid research the EPA provides grants to agencies related to their areas of interest. Someone figured that they could use this data combined with the UPA documentation on airfield lead emissions to see if their data bore this out.
• They provided the source of their airport "Data U.S. EPA (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency). 2008. Estimated Pb  Emissions  from  All  NC  Airport  Facilities.  Washington, DC:U.S. EPA Office of Transportation and Air Quality. " You can still source this data, instructions below.
• They only used counties which had good housing age data, this allowed them to control for lead in older buildings.

They point that they're making is that lead solution from avgas created a measurable impact on the blood lead levels of children. The effect wasn't large but it was there, also some of the airports weren't large either.

This is bad because there's no safe level for lead exposure, only levels which are tolerable because we've spread it around so much.

I expect that it is research like this which has driven the sudden approval for unleaded avgas by FAA. Politically poisoning children is a bad look and doesn't win votes.

By the way I've attached the instructions on how to obtain the data referenced in the paper. EPA maintains historical data and provides access for this purpose.

5 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

A read of a child lead research paper reference North Carolina makes no mention of airports.

As you'd expect, that wasn't the focus of the paper. I wouldn't expect a paper which is focused on the efficacy of lead testing coverage to somehow include a section to specially call out airport lead emissions.

Also I meant to give a bit of a rebuttal to the book "Unsettled". But rather than that I'll let Scientific Amnerican and Inside Climate News do it for me. What isn't known is that he was employed as a known contrarian of climate science so that policies in this area would pass the guantlet of a know "Devil's Advocate"  ensure that the research was incredibly solid.

Koonin, the author  is a fellow of the "American Enterprise Institute" which is funded by Kock and other Industries with significant fossil fuel investments to the tune of $380M USD.

P100WYC3-1.PDF

15 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

A pilot aborting due WX or unserviceability is fair enuf, though the ‘patient’ may be a little unwell and stressing and noting they could have driven there the day before.

 

A few aborts and suddenly all pilots get a bad reputation. 

 

Imagine if the sick pax throws a fit or dies during the flight - Pilot liable ?

Angel Flight is a charitable service that operates successfully already and people are dealing with these issues already. It's a volunteer service which covers fuel costs etc.

Do you help an old lady across the road or walk away because of the fear of liability. It's your choice.

Personally I also think that it should be the choice of the passenger as to the aircraft and pilot they travel with.

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

If lightweight aircraft were the answer, the RFDS would have some in their fleet.

Even the medical/rescue/crash choppers are heavy, for the simple reason they need to be able to carry medics and patients, as well as the pilot.

Horses for courses Angel Flight doesn't replace emergency services, it complements them.

Sometime people just need to travel for a scans such as an MRI or a specialist appointment and for that role sport aircraft might fit the bill. They don't need hand holding on the flight, they just need to get to and from the appointment in a day. When a carer is needed larger aircraft are needed however the key point is its not a one size fits all scenario.

Comparing the requirements for emergency response vehicles to general transport is a bit out of the ballpark. It's like comparing an emergency response vehicle such as an ambulance or fire-engine to an uber or taxi. 

It is not that the requirements are particularly onerous, it is the general undertone that as a service Angel Flights or anything similar should be banned. Rather than the current adversarial ham fisted approach, a set of guidelines aimed at educating both the pilots and the passengers assisting with a risk based approach could have been taken.

2 hours ago, Thruster88 said:

I own an experimental and it is brilliant, however I can see why they don't allow experimental.

https://www.kitplanes.com/homebuilt-accidents-comparing-the-rates/ analysis indicates that the accident rates of experimental aircraft while higher than certified isn't enormously higher.

I'm not sure that it's quite as cut and dried and a more nuanced approach could be more productive. The average age of the certified fleet is over 40 years and often their instrumentation reflects that age. For example the plane at the centre of the ATSB investation was a 1980s era certified aircraft. If the plane were equipped with autopilot and more modern instrumentation it may have ended differently. Certainly being able to press a button to fly straight and level after becoming disoriented might have facilitated a better outcome.

Designs such as the RV series built to a standard design have accident rates similar to the certified aircraft.

The big picture outcome is to facilitate better healthcare. If you live in outer regional or beyond your life expectancy is between 2.8 and 13.9 years lower. This is 10% of the countries population which means that between 1096 and 5646 lives are being lost every year in aggregate premature deaths.  26000000*.1*2.7/(80*80) or 26000000*.1*13.9/(80*80). The assumption is that the average age is 80 years, dividing by 80 again gives an annual result.

Compared to the risks posed by experimental vs certified aircraft is like being concerned about the air temperature on impact velocity when you're skydiving without a parachute.

Something which would be nice to see are more major hospitals built next to airports so there is no a commute for those needing treatment.

Regional areas are pretty poorly serviced by the medical services and Angel Flight in Australia has been a community response to meet some of the needs of people who need healthcare. The problem is very real with concept such as "Burdern of Disease", From the AIHW comes this statement

Quote

In 2018, after adjusting for age, the total burden of disease and injury in Australia increased with increasing remoteness. Major cities experienced the least burden per population, while Remote and very remote areas experienced the most. The rate of disease burden in Remote and very remote areas was 1.4 times as high as that for Major cities.

A few of the aviation governance bodies haven't particularly taken a shine to the service and have effectively been trying to reduce it's scope of operations.

However rather than trying to restrict these operations this type of ground roots aviation should be encouraged and expanded in scope. There is a simple calculus associated with the availability of healthcare and morbidity and death. Investigations by the ATSB into accidents related to Angel Flight appeared to be almost a vendetta against the concept and the organisation, however this completely misses the point that thousands of premature deaths and extended suffering are occurring because of a lack of access to medical facilities in a reasonable and convenient manner.

A couple of questions for the group who may be understand the background and context of the current state of affairs.

• Why is there the degree of antipathy to the concept of Angel Flight from CASA and ATSB.
• Is it possible to garner greater support in regional areas by getting local GA to other local organisations like Lion/Rotary etc.
• What  percentage of you have written to your local member to get this fixed. The current Minister for CASA is Catherine King
• Given that there's an increasing number of amateur built aircraft, wouldn't it make sense to include these in fleet of vehicles if the end users are happy to accept the risks. People are grown up and can read and accept a risk assessment.

Basically it's and issue of equity and cost, and by any measure the current status quo is failing.

I'd encourage you to reach out to these ministers and shake the tree

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/c-king/contact

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/mcbain/contact

https://minister.infrastructure.gov.au/brown

Offer to take them up for a flight to an airport with a twice a week service and explain how hard it is to get an MRI if you have kids, or have dependents or are a carer.

2 hours ago, Flying Binghi said:

Perhaps Ian thinks they will be closing down the umpteen millions of geothermal vents around the world.

If we could go back to just environmental lead you would have about a 99% reduction. The reality is that the natural geological processes to use your phrase emit "1/16 of a poofteenth of sweet f-all."

Historical levels of environmental lead is pretty easy to measure as things like ice cores provides a nice record.

The simple truth is that Aviation using leaded fuel is a bit shit. It makes aviation in your area look bad and will provide another nail to hammer into the coffin to those who want to close down airports.

Because aviation has dragged their feet for so long they've become completely disconnected from the expectations of the community at large. Most people driving don't remember lead in fuel and consider it a joke. Trying to justify it's continued existence just make the entire industry look like a joke as well. 

It a bit like trying to argue that climate change is just hysterical nonsense and supporting clowns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/noaa-staff-warned-in-sept-1-directive-against-contradicting-trump/2019/09/07/12a52d1a-d18f-11e9-87fa-8501a456c003_story.html

1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said:

Hmmm… Sometimes if yer want to get the ‘correct’ result yer just have to employ the ‘correct’ researchers. Lets have a brief look-see…

Yup, it all a conspiracy, lead's good for you, climate change is a mass hysteria phenomenon and those Government types are alien reptiles and they're covering up the coming invasion. If it's too warm the planet won't be suitable anymore.

I think that you're in the position that the science is still out on what reasonable lead levels are even though Government health bodies have been consistently lowering the reasonable thresholds

The recognised safe levels of lead have been progressively reduced as the toxicity has been recognised. Australia still has a Pb threshold of 10.

There have been a number of comments that lead is naturally occuring substance and in the environment anyway. That's not true in to any reasonable extent. Atmospheric Lead created by leaded fuel spewed a huge amount of lead into the environment basically creating a nice lead right across the planet. This increased our environmental exposure by about 200x over normal, pre-industrial exposures. There is no safe level of exposure to lead so every reduction helps. For that reason the GAMI alone program should be lauded, tolerating lead in avgas has gone on for far too long.

Yes lead was naturally occuring however the naturally lead minerals tended to stay put, locked away geologically. The fact that you can liquefy lead at room temperature and include it is fuel still blows my minds. 

Also in relation to Bromine it's the Bromine based fire retardants which are being increasingly viewed as high risk chemicals.

https://www.dcceew.gov.au/environment/protection/chemicals-management/brominated-flame-retardants

11 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I grew up in Broken Hill and don’t believe I was intellectually impaired.

You're as bad FB just believing stuff,  have you had it measured? 😉

1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said:

Compared to what’s naturally in the Oz environment the amount of lead aviation puts out in Australia is 1/16 of a poofteenth of sweet f-all.

Again rather than just channelling, I'll give you a couple of references and a quote.

Quote

In the United States, general aviation piston-driven aircraft are now the largest source of lead emitted to the atmosphere.

https://qz.com/2158594/do-you-live-near-enough-to-a-small-airport-to-have-lead-exposure/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/305924497_Costs_of_IQ_Loss_from_Leaded_Aviation_Gasoline_Emissions

In the last 100 or so years atmospheric lead levels increased by a factor of 200 over baseline levels.  

Also any the vast majority of the lead that we get from the oceans we put there.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1417370111

https://www.science.org/content/article/3d-maps-reveal-lead-laced-ocean

There's a nice little too that might by of help https://gprivate.com/60r5c

OK, there are two schools of thought.

• One which thinks that climate change is a conspiracy and soon everyone will wake up and it will be business at usual. Given that is the case there's not much point in participating in this thread because it's nonsense.
• The other thinks that climate change is real enough that significant changes are coming and things like travel will have to demonstrate that they're carbon neutral in some way shape or form.

Things like Macron banning private jets is just a populist move that makes people feel like they're doing something. Banning them unless they're carbon neutral makes more sense.

At some point I suspect that we'll be forced to fuel our planes with a carbon neutral fuel, by considering what the options are hopefully we can make some sensible decisions going forward. Even if that means investing in canola farms of a bit of bioengineering to make better biofuels. (it has one of the lowest cloud points of the common vegetable oil)

If you want to talk about coral reefs and bleaching I suggest that you reach out to a couple of scientists who specialise in that area. Their email addresses are on the page. If they agree with your point of view I'll buy you a beer 😉 

https://www.aims.gov.au/research-topics/environmental-issues/coral-bleaching/coral-bleaching-events

I agree, just search on google for lead contamination children Broken Hill. There's also a lot of sites in and around capital cities where environmental lead is high.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-s-toxic-footprint-the-suburbs-most-at-risk-from-lead-contamination-20191130-p53fnx.html

6 minutes ago, facthunter said:

The Bromine additive used to remove the Lead from engines is just as much a problem.

What's the issue with Bromines? I know that organobromides are are bit nasty however you can get bromide pool sanitisers. Not saying you're wrong I just don't know.

25 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

‘Climate change’ is not a Real issue. It is an over blown hysteria.

While you might believe this it isn't what most of the scientific community believe. Also public opinion is also moving and accepting the fact that it is an issue. It would be good if you could be convinced by research, facts, published paper and journals but you're making a stand for your beliefs. I get it, I just don't do facebook, brietbart etc as I think they're nonsense. I know that you would like us believe differently however it's just a belief.

The future will entail

• Lower carbon emissions
• Lower methan emissions
• Taxes on emission or equivalent like an emissions market.
• Significant reductions in fossil fuel
• Alternative energy technologies

Somehow GA needs to dovetail into this framework. There have been some STCs for pure ethanol https://www.flightglobal.com/corn-to-run-can-ethanol-be-used-as-a-clean-alternative/71449.article so the whole zero carbon approach isn't a nail in the coffin of air travel or GA, it just needs a bit of innovation. I'd like to see some biodiesel powered planes funded by Government grants as well.

But this is just my opinion 🙂 But I'd be willing to put a wager on it, as I said investment is all about timing.

6 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said:

We have a cheaper Av fuel in Oz now. Why rush.

Personally I'd rather see lead phased out as soon as possible. Even relatively small amounts show an impact on children's IQs. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8162884/

Given the choice I'd ban it tomorrow, I think that its continued use is negligent to the point of being criminal. As an industry aviation would deal with it. 

While lead IQ relationships are reasonably easy to measure a more insidious linkage relates to violent crime and antisocial activities. All in all it's a bad news story and a sucking chest wound on the industry.

On 04/09/2022 at 11:39 AM, Old Koreelah said:

My second version is based on a $28 windscreen washer kit. It operates only at full throttle, so I only have to top up the 4 litre tank after several take-offs. It sprays directly into the carby mouth. I’ve gradually increased the spray rate in ground testing until it’s getting more water than fuel. Still hasn’t put out the fire!

Have you noticed any changes at all in the oil or anything else?

From an installation point of view how would you rate the difficulty out of 10? A couple of photos would be nice if you have the time?