River

News.com.au Pilot Walks Away From Ultralight Crash July 20, 2007 01:07pm A PILOT has walked away unharmed after crash landing an ultralight plane north of Brisbane. The Australian Search and Rescue (AusSAR) service was advised of an aircraft in difficulty shortly after 9am (AEST) after a pilot heard another pilot's distress call. The pilot in distress had advised he was about to attempt an emergency landing because of engine trouble. The Energex Community Rescue helicopter was called in to search an area between Kilcoy and Caboolture, north of Brisbane, a rescue spokesperson said. The helicopter spotted the stricken ultralight aircraft on the ground near Neurum Creek, west of Woodford, about 11am (AEST) today. The pilot was not hurt and the aircraft sustained minor damage.

And now on an entirely different subject… A stranger was seated next to Jim Killen on a domestic plane flight when the stranger turned to Jim and said, "Let's talk. . . I've heard that flights will go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger." Jim, who had just opened his book, closed it slowly, and said to the stranger, "What would you like to discuss?" "Oh, I don't know," said the stranger. "How about nuclear power?" "OK," said Jim. "That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. "A horse, a cow, and a sheep all eat grass. The same stuff, yet a sheep excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?" "Struth," said the stranger. "I have no idea." "Well, then, sir..." said Jim Killen, "How is it that you feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don't know ****?". . . and re-opened his book to read. The rest of the flight was very quiet. :confused:

Excerpts from a Dog and Cat Diary ;) ================================= DOG I love my master J 8:00 am - Dog food! My favourite thing! 30 am - A car ride! My favourite thing! 40 am - A walk in the park! My favourite thing! 10:30 am - Got rubbed and petted! My favourite thing! 12:00 pm - Lunch! My favourite thing! 1:00 pm - Played in the yard! My favourite thing! 3:00 pm - Wagged my tail! My favourite thing! 5:00 pm - Given bones! My favourite thing! 7:00 pm - Got to play ball! My favourite thing! 8:00 pm - Wow! Watched TV with the people! My favourite thing! 11:00 pm - Sleeping on the bed! My favourite thing! … CAT Day 983 of my captivity. L My captors continue to taunt me with strange little dangling objects? They dine lavishly on fresh meat, while the other inmates and I are Fed tinned hash or some sort of dry nuggets. Although I make my contempt for the rations perfectly clear, I nevertheless must eat something in order to keep up my strength. The only thing that keeps me going is my dream of escape. In an attempt to disgust them, I once again vomit on the carpet. Today I decapitated a mouse and dropped its headless body at their feet. I had hoped this would strike fear into their hearts, since it clearly demonstrates what I am capable of. However, they merely made condescending comments about what a "good little hunter" I am… Bastards! There was some sort of assembly of their accomplices tonight. I was placed in solitary confinement for the duration of the event. Nevertheless, I could hear the noises and smell the food. I overheard that my confinement was due to the power of "allergies." I must learn what this means, and how to use it to my advantage. Today I was almost successful in an attempt to assassinate one of my tormentors by weaving around his feet as he was walking. I must try this again tomorrow --but at the top of the stairs. I am convinced that the other prisoners here are flunkies and snitches. The dog receives special privileges. He is regularly released - and seems to be more than willing to return. He is obviously retarded. The bird has got to be an informant. I observe him communicate with the guards regularly. I am certain that he reports my every move. My captors have arranged protective custody for him in an elevated cell, so he is safe. ..... For NOW !

The Program missed our real history... G'day "Team", :) I was by and large, quite disappointed with the presentation and view of our past aviation history with this program. Yes, there were some reviews and facts as to our early well-known aviators but their history is and has been well documented already. When the promo’s were on re this upcoming series I thought it was going to cover the various people, their aircraft and locations of the many many aviators who were involved in our early aviation. But no – it was just a re-hash of well know events and a miss-mash of Ansett’s crash landing. Quite a poor presentation of our history overall. :;)1:

G'day Bushpilot, Do you know what the OH&S issue with the 205 drums is... :;)5: Cheers

Hi Team, I note the last listed aviation incident summary on the official government ATSB site is showing as 'Week ending 6 April 2007'... http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/weekly_summary/2007.aspx Anyone know why the listings appear to have stopped? :;)5: Cheers,

Latest info re sad losses up north... This is a forum area where I wish we had no posts but... ABC News Online Last Update: Sunday, May 20, 2007. 1:00pm (AEST) Man killed in Qld plane crash A man has died and another man is missing after an ultralight plane crash in north Queensland. Rescue crews found a man's body and the wreckage of the plane at Oak Valley, 20 kilometres south-west of Townsville, around 10am AEST. Spokeswoman Cassie Glanville says investigations are continuing into what caused the crash. "A witness saw the aircraft attempt a turn, when the motor was heard to increase in revolutions and then cut out. The ultralight has then spiralled to the ground," she said. "An ultralight located the aircraft around 10am and guided ground crews to the wreckage that was semi-submerged in a creek." =========== News corp Two believed dead in ultralight crash May 20, 2007 01:40pm Article from: AAP TWO men are believed to have been killed in an ultralight aircraft crash in north Queensland. A police spokesman said a witness saw the aircraft spiral to the ground about 8.50am (AEST) today at Oak Valley, southwest of Townsville. They reported hearing an increase in revolutions from the engine as the aircraft attempted a turn before the motor cut out completely. Police conducted an extensive ground search with the help of local ultralight operators and the plane was located around 10am (AEST) semi-submerged in a creek. No further details were immediately available and investigations into the incident are continuing. =========== FairfaxDigital Online News Two believed dead in ultralight crash May 20, 2007 - 1:39PM Two men are believed to have been killed in an ultralight aircraft crash in north Queensland. A police spokesman said a witness saw the aircraft spiral to the ground about 8.50am (AEST) on Sunday at Oak Valley, south-west of Townsville. They reported hearing an increase in revolutions from the engine as the aircraft attempted a turn before the motor cut out completely. Police conducted an extensive ground search with the help of local ultralight operators and the plane was located around 10am (AEST) semi-submerged in a creek. No further details were immediately available and investigations into the incident are continuing. =========== Joyflight tragedy Townsville Bulletin LENDL RYAN 21May07 TWO men are dead after an ultralight plane crash at Oak Valley yesterday morning. The aircraft was attempting a turn over the Montpelier Air Park, 20 km southwest of Townsville, when its motor cut-out sending it spiralling to the ground at approximately 8.50 am. An extensive air and ground search was conducted before the plane was found headfirst and partly submerged in an embankment off Sachs Creek. Rugged terrain and thick bush cover prevented crews finding the wreck for more than an hour. An extensive air and ground search was conducted before the plane was found positioned headfirst and partly submerged in an embankment off Sachs Creek. It is understood the men, Kevin James Hayes, 48, and a 24-year-old male who was to be formally identified today, had taken a morning joyflight. The pilot is believed to have been an experienced pilot and a member of Recreational Aviation Australia for a number of years. Relatives of the pair, including the older man's daughter and the girlfriend of the ultralight's passenger, were at the airstrip at the time but did not see the plane go down. The alarm was only raised when the ultralight did not return as scheduled. Two police squad cars were first on the scene, followed by fire and ambulance crews. Because of the rough terrain it took three other aircraft, including a fixed wing plane, to locate the wreckage from the air before directing ground crews to the site. Regional police duty officer Inspector Ron Walmsley said it took crews more than an hour to plough through the harsh terrain to reach the two men. "Actually locating the site was a problem because there were no tracks to the area," Insp Walmsley said. "There were a lot of low shrubs so we had difficulty finding the crash site. "We had to use light aircrafts to fly around the area to conduct an air search to locate the wreck and then to obviously guide our ground parties in, and that took a bit of time as well. "With the assistance of the rural fire brigade we had to cut a track into the crash site. The police dive squad was called to recover the bodies and the wreckage was taken away using a tow truck and front loader tractor. The owner of the tractor, Bob Van Damme, helped lift the wreck to allow rescue crews to recover the bodies. "I was out looking at cattle when I heard the planes circling around," he said. "I just came down to see what was going on and whether they needed any assistance. "It (the plane) was in pretty bad shape, it hit the tree pretty hard. "It came in from the side and took the tops of the other trees before coming down." When the damaged plane was eventually recovered, the seats could be seen broken in half, its undercarriage shattered in pieces, the wings snapped, and the pilot and passenger helmets still attached to the main structure. Insp Walmsley said investigations into what caused the joyflight to go horribly wrong were still in their early stages. "We will work with the family and investigators and the ultralight association to try and find out why it happened," he said. "At this stage we don't know why but apparently the aircraft came down about three or four kilometres from the airstrip." Recreational Aviation Australia operation manager Lee Ungermann said despite the fragile appearance of ultralights, they were a safe vehicle capable of withstanding a crash. "For that type of vehicle you might be lucky if there's one or two incidents a year, considering how many people fly those sorts of planes," he said.

:black_eye: Although this happened last year, now that the err... inquiry has finished reckon these pictures may show you what can happen when one has a collective crew 'brain-fade'... At about 10 p.m. local time on May 8, 2006, a 7th Bomb Wing B-1B Lancer based at Dyess AFB, Texas, made a wheels-up landing on runway 31 at Diego Garcia, skidding 7,500 feet down the runway. The aircraft was landing at the end of an 11 hour ferry mission that started at Andersen AFB, Guam. During the landing, the B-1B caught fire and emergency crews extinguished the flames. The four-person aircrew escaped from the plane through the overhead escape hatch. The aircraft was finally removed from the runway 4 days later. The Air Force Accident Investigation concluded the pilots forgot to lower the landing gear. The USAF estimated the damage to the B-1B at $7.9 million, and the damage to the runway at $14,025. For those who have never seen a $285,000,000.00 B-1 bomber on the deck without wheels, here it is: [ATTACH]1617[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1618[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1619[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1620[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1621[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1622[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]1623[/ATTACH]

You need to be careful using 'wit'... Charles was in trouble. He forgot his wedding anniversary. His wife was really annoyed. She told him "Tomorrow morning, I expect to find a gift in the driveway that goes from 0 to 200 in under 6 seconds AND IT BETTER BE THERE!!" The next morning Charles got up early and left for work. When his wife woke up, she looked out the window and sure enough, there was a box, gift – wrapped in the middle of the driveway. Excited, the wife put on her robe and ran out to the driveway, brought the box back in the house. She opened it and found a brand set new bathroom scales. Charles has been missing since last Friday. . . :black_eye:

I wish it was better news but... Further breaking news on aircraft accident around 300 kms north of Brisbane... Always a heartbreaking event and condolences too all concerned. ABC News Last Update: Thursday, April 19, 2007. 6:30pm (AEST) Two Killed in Light-Plane Crash Two people have been killed in an ultra-light plane crash north of Maryborough in south-east Queensland. Emergency crews were called to a private airstrip at Howard late this afternoon. It is believed the plane burst into flames at the end of the runway, trapping the pilot and one other person. An investigation is under way. News Corp April 19, 2007 05:52pm Plane Crashes, Burns at Private Runway A PLANE has crashed and burst into flames at a private runway north of Brisbane. A police spokeswoman said officers were attending the scene of the crash at Howard, west of Hervey Bay, which was reported about 5pm (AEST) today. She said the plane had burst into flames at a private runway near Pacific Haven Circuit. It was not yet known how many people were on board or how the crash occurred. No other information was available. AAP Wire Service April 19, 2007 - 6:29PM Two Dead in Qld Ultralight Crash A man and woman died when an ultralight plane crashed on takeoff north of the Sunshine Coast. A Queensland Fire and Rescue Service spokeswoman said an Allegro ultralight craft crashed at a private airstrip about 5pm (AEST) at Howard, west of Hervey Bay. She said the aircraft had been cleared for takeoff to fly to Bundaberg when it crashed. It was believed the plane clipped some trees and cartwheeled above a road after clearing the airstrip. It crashed on a footpath at the corner of Marina Drive and Pacific Haven Circuit, just 50 metres from a home, and burst into flames. The spokeswoman said witnesses had told authorities the pair had died trapped in the plane as it was engulfed by flames. Investigations will begin into the crash on Thursday night and continue Friday.

For my 'Twenty Cents' worth... For my twenty cents worth... :;)3: On a monthly list, Our RAA mag (AU), GAPilot (AOPA AU) Australian Flying (AU), Pacific Flyer (AU), KitPlanes (US), Flyer (UK), Today's Pilot (UK) plus various specialist defence/military journals... ;) Cheers team, Rodger

Ok, bit busy with work as at moment :-( I'll find the source ASAP and post you the info... Rodger

THAT'S CLOSE ENOUGH! Come closer, I can't see the whites of your eyes ! This give a whole new meaning to aircraft recce. Nice nose shot of the new Eurofighter Typhoon from the "back door' of a C130 for PR pictures. Pip.. Pip.. team! [ATTACH]1127[/ATTACH]

I can be lucky... Many thanks to Australian Flying for their support with this forum ;) With the Comet photo I was quite lucky in capturing the image as the camera I used, my old 1997 model Minolta DiMage 7i, appears to have died at the end of the Comet shoot. . I shot a number of images using various time exposures and upon viewing them on the computer I notice what appeared to be a smuge appearing in part of the image. The unusual part was as I viewed the images in their time sequence I noted the 'smuge' was becoming darker and larger... Hmmm? I first thought I'd somehow marked the lens filter but upon checking both the filter and lens in detail, no mark or spot, etc could be found. :;)2: I shot off another series of images and checked them only to find the 'smuge' now a very dark and solid spot covering about a 1cm area on a 10 x 15 paper photo. It would appear the camera's imaging sensor has had a failure of part of it's pixel imaging pick-up and as the sensors imaging unit is a sealed I'd say that's about the end of the old digital Minolta camera. I paid around $2500 for back then and it was one of the first digitals with the 5 megapixel sensor back then. Not a bad run really as I've possible shot off some many thousands of images and I do mean thousands as I was a one stage shooting some 200/400 images every week-end for a soccer events plus my flying activities and other projects. The old Minolta was a good unit and it is nice to see the camera go out in a 'blaze of glory'... Pip..! Pip..! Rog

Sky Gods... Snaped this shot with an old Minolta Dimage 7i digital camera last evening of the McNaugh Comet... Was somewhat surprised of its size and would have to say (if my memory is right :;)4: ) this would be the second largest comet I've seen. The biggest comet I've seen was way back around the late 60's which was quite a sight as a group of mates and myself drove down to Bathurst for the bike races... in a converted ambulance vehicle - still with paint job and lights! (illegal though but a lot of fun...). Cheers team, Rodger

G'day 'Team', My apologies regarding my typo errors in my thread/s and or replies. It’s quite frustrating my one reads an item with incorrect spelling or grammar but believe me, it’s even more annoying when you know you have a possible dyslexia problem and use a good quality spell and grammar checking program and it’s still not coming out correct… As I said, my apologies and I’ll attempt to improve my keyboard typing. Cheers, Rodger

Channel 7 news (Brisbane) at 1800 hrs today, (Monday), showed a ultralight aircraft with a '19...' rego lying inverted on cleared level ground, possible a airfield, with considerable damage. A person who indicated he was a witness said the owner who was 71yo had taken the past 20 years to build the plane and it was the aircraft's first flight. The planecrashed after take-off with what the pilot was said to be "an engine problem"... The witness said the pilot had only light injuries mainly to his leg which was caught up in the damaged cockpit area. Only saw a couple of seconds of video thoughbut generally speaking the aircraftdid not appear to have much fire damage, mostly structural.Engine area,a wing root and leadingedgeplus the main undercarriage was ripped off.. Damm..!

G'day 'Team', Heard two aviators talking air-to-air yesterday (Sunday) about a “Drifter that was so severely damage that it looked like a ball to broken metal bits†plus they indicated that a number of hangers had their doors ripped off… They appeared to be talking about the aftermath of a localised very serve storm front that moved through the Watts Bridge airfield area, North West of Brisbane, plus other areas too. Does anyone have an update on this? Never good news when one is on the receiving end of these storm cells and looking at the weather radar at the time, the area over Watts Bridge was being plastered by quite high levels of rain intensity. Parts of the radar paint were in the maximum rainfall colour of black… Which brings me to ask the question, what structural/storm/cyclone rating are the ‘standard’ flat sided steel/aluminium hangers we all see around most airfields? The one’s I’ve used have either the multiple folding door type which appear to have their doors just hanging on rollers at the top and with some guide rail supports along the floor or the one or two piece doors which slide open and closed. All seem to be built to a fairly generalised storm rating standard. I’d venture to say that a 150 k/ph wind would return any of these doors with the unfortunate resulting serious damage at would occur. Our localised small storm cell fronts appear to be occurring with stronger intensity over the past year or so and it’s not at all uncommon to have winds of up to 200 k/ph with-in these cells, admittedly these storm/wind fronts are very small in size but it’d be worth checking upon your structures rating and also your insurance cover rating too for both your aircraft and the hanger too! I was going to say ‘cheers’ but as this is not a good news line I’ll leave it at ‘yours in aviation’, Rodger

Never good to see items listed in this section... Believe the aircraft involved according to other media reports was a Corby Starlet. Sincerely hope the pilot has no serious injuries.

Archerfield closed for 10/15 minutes with a Yak52 warbird incident... The Courier-Mail Cool head overcomes chaos By Richard Finnila November 22, 2006 11:00pm A STUDENT pilot learning aerobatics ended up with more than he bargained for yesterday when his instructor gave him a crash course in crash landing in a paddock behind Archerfield Airport, south of Brisbane. Veteran instructor Mal Beard was teaching his student how to make a touch-and-go landing when the propeller struck the tarmac, partly shattering one of the wooden blades. Unable to regain full power, the pair were forced to land the rare Yak 52 fighter plane in a paddock peppered with trees. "There was absolutely no panic – I just took over control of the aeroplane and landed as best I could," Mr Beard said. "It's what I call being prepared for an incident and trying to keep the options open." The plane eventually came to rest against a gum tree. Mr Beard said the problem was sparked after the landing gear malfunctioned. "The gear wasn't locked down apparently," he said. Both men walked away from the crash. The 44-year-old student pilot was later taken to hospital for a check up after reporting minor pain to his neck and ankle. Inspector Geoff Acreman praised Mr Beard for pulling off the miracle stunt. "(It's) quite amazing actually, when you have a look at the fact that it doesn't have much of a propeller," Insp Acreman said. "To have been able to put the aircraft's under-carriage down and land it in such a manner that neither the pilot nor passenger has been seriously hurt, I think is a bit of flying genius in my opinion." The pair were returning to Archerfield Airport after a 40-minute aerobatics lesson. Mr Beard, who has more than 35 years' flying experience, plans to repair the aircraft. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating. ----------------------------------------- In another news report on the same incident it is interesting to note the differences in the reporting... This story is from AAP The Australian Pilot blames mechanical problems for crash November 22, 2006 A PILOT whose light plane crashed in Brisbane's southwest today has blamed mechanical problems for the accident. The dual control, single engined Yak 52 Russian Warbird crashed into a tree at the end of a runaway at Archerfield Airport shortly before noon (AEST) after problems with its landing gear. Brisbane pilot Mal Beard today said he and his student had been practising aerobatics and touch and go landings before he noticed something was wrong with the aircraft. But he said he had not panicked. Authorities believed the propeller hit the tarmac and smashed during an attempted emergency landing. In a second attempt, the plane's brakes had failed to slow the plane so Mr Beard steered it into a large gum tree. Police praised the efforts of the instructor for averting a tragedy. He was uninjured while his student was taken to the Princess Alexandra Hospital with neck and other minor injuries. The plane's front prop, undercarriage and wing were damaged. Police and air crash investigators were examining the aircraft to find the exact cause of the accident. --------------------------------------------- These reports again high-light the caution required when reading media reports of aviation accidents and as to their accuracy as the second news report makes the assumption the aircraft flew around for a second circuit with a 'smashed propellor' and then landed back on the runway but it's brakes failed..! From what I heard on the radio/s, etc (and this is only myinterpretation of events as heard by radio comms it) appeared the aircraft either attempted to land without it's wheels down (or the undercarriage was not locked down?) and the propeller contacted the runway... The instructor (who took over) then managed to have the aircraft climb, either re-cycle the undercarriage or lower the wheels?, no doubt shut down the engine, find a grass/dirt road off the end of the runway, miss the airfield boundary fence, land on the road with trees and scrub all around, roll along the road (not 100% straight) and with no options left, opt to miss the bloody large tree head-on and come to a halt with no fire, shaken, stirred but alive..! And to make matters more concerning with Archer tower and rescue personal, theaircraft being military green in colour and as the aircraft did not burn -they were unable to find the aircraft for a while even though it was just off the end of the main runway, so-to-speak. The tower even engaged the services of a nearby training chopper to assist in searching for it. Whilst there may be questions as to how the incident occurred the pilot control of the situation appears to have been excellent. What's that saying... No matter what happens, fly the aircarft...

Has not been a good past few days with our fellow aviators... These media reports have been coming through... SMH Monday 20 Nov 2006 Two fatal light plane crashes in 24 hours The scene of the Nowendoc crash. November 20, 2006 - 10AM Two separate fatal ultralight plane crashes within a day of each other have left two men dead and one in hospital suffering multiple injuries, according to police. In one incident a 41-year-old Armidale man had taken off from a private property at Nowendoc, a small village about 70 kilometres south of Walcha, about 2.45pm yesterday. A 30-year-old passenger, from Nowendoc, sat in the back seat of the two-seater. According to emergency staff the plane stalled shortly after take off, possibly when avoiding power lines, and nose-dived into a nearby paddock. Emergency crews arrived but the pilot was pronounced dead at the scene. His passenger, a 30-year-old Nowendoc man, was taken by helicopter to Tamworth Hospital with leg and arm fractures and a chest injury. The crash comes only hours after another ultralight crash west of Parkes, in which a 40-year-old Forbes man died after hitting powerlines at about 6.45pm on Saturday. ------------------- One dead in light plane crash November 20, 2006 12:00 AAP A MAN has been killed and another remains in hospital after an ultralight aircraft crash in northern NSW. The aircraft left a private property in Nowendoc in the Northern Tablelands about 2.45pm (AEDT) yesterday before plummeting to the ground. A 41-year-old Armidale man died at the scene and a 30-year-old Nowendoc man was taken to Tamworth Base Hospital with serious leg and arm injuries. Police are investigating the crash and will prepare a report for the coroner. It is the second fatal ultralight aircraft crash in less than 24 hours. A 40-year-old Forbes man was killed when the plane he was piloting hit powerlines in the Bogan Gate Road area, about 50km west of Parkes in western NSW, on Saturday evening.

G'day 'Team', Wondering if anyone visited the annual South Grafton fly-in muster held a weekend or so back. If so, how did it go, many aircraft etc??? Work has been keeping me from attending this event over the past few years, and they had to cancel the fly-in for a while due to the public insurance problems that have caused major pain to many sporting clubs and other organisations. Appears they have at last managed to gain support for the renewal of the fly-in muster with is part of the Jacaranda week festival held in Grafton. Cheers, Rog

Hi team, just a point and not meaning to play 'big brother' though but these aircraft accidents, etc... shouldn't they be posted in the "Incidents & Accidents" forum section under the In the Clubroom. Otherwise we'll end up with bits and pieces of info scattered all over the forum... Cheers team...

I note the Caboolture Aero Club's (and airfield information, etc...) has been closed down? http://www.cabaeroclub.org.au/ Checked the IP address and it's indicating it no longer exist..? Anyone know if they have a new site or what's the SitRep? Thanks,

G'day Arthur, yep... bloody wrong side all right rats!. I did see the 'other side' and quite an impressive bit of electronic advertising. Listening to the pilot he indicated that next year the airship will have a totally new electronic all colour screen of far higher brightness, etc. Not quite sure what he meant by that as the screen already is multi-coloured..? I have to say that seeing the advertising on the side of the airship at night is VERY IMPRESSIVE to the degree that motorist need to be careful as to not to become distracted looking at the airship and it's electronic signage. Its good! No wonder a certain manufacture is 'dummy spitting' at the moment with the airships 'ambush advertising' of certain sponsored events. Imagine tyring up advertising contacts an spending squillions of your product promotion only to be upstaged by a large slow moving very bright airborne advertising 'billboard' promoting the oppositions brand.... If you can believe the poll'ies they reckon they are going to legally 'shoot-it-down' to stop the airship from overflying the various sporting venues, etc, etc... Hmmmm. If our poll'ies can act that quick for a commercial $$$ incident makes one ponder as to why they can't get their act together with our airspace regs.. Now that's wishful thinking Cheers Arthur