Jaba-who

Mmmmmm.

Camel, My answer was in response to your statement

" I do not have individual sensors and always runs cool because I don't give it a reason to run hot, cruise climb, level off every 500ft to cool, climb out never below 80knts usual 90knts ! "

My response was specifically to point out to you that it is not valid to make that statement.

Multiple people have posted statements on this forum (and other forums) that attest to wide temperature ranges and inconsistent "hottest" or " coolest" cylinders. These findings occur in a range of conditions and flight techniques including techniques similar to yours.

The fact is: that to make assumptions about all cylinder temperatures at all times from a single temp probe is invalid.

Everything else you raise is a red herring and does nothing to negate this fact.

Sorry camel but you are very very mistaken.

We have done a large amount of work on multiple engines here in North Queensland and developed a few modifications to help in narrowing the ranges of temps.

Some absolute facts we have found in our research.

The cylinder head temps can have significant ranges of temps. (Over 60 degrees C ) in some engines from hottest to coldest.

The temp ranges change with different RPM settings and cylinders can swap which is hottest. Jabiru say to put that single CHT on Cylinder 6 because it runs hottest. Well that's not true in nearly half the engines. Number 2 runs hottest in many engines.

Its common for the temps to run hotter on one side of the engine than the other ( not always the side with cylinder 6 or 2 either) and when combined with front to back changes its common for temps to get sequentially hotter with temp rising from cylinder 1 to 6 sort of "diagonally" across the engine. But often 2 is anomalously hot.

All this can be changed by simple things like the carby tilting to one side (either accidentally or by being turned on purpose ) or complex things like baffles in the carby intake or changes in the jet size which change the droplet size and thus change the inertia of the fuel air mixture. (Big droplets get carried forward to front cylinders leaner air to the back).

You have absolutely no idea what's happening without all cylinders being monitored.

Oscar wrote. "Since you're running a J430, I assume that it's VH-reg and running the certificated engine?. You may need to wait until the CAMit engine has achieved certification to be able to use it, but that hopefully won't be too far away. "

It's vh registered in the experimental class ( as all j 430s must be in Oz) so it can have any engine you want - certified or not. The only bureaucratic type thing needed would be a re-weight and balance then a new CofA issued by my Authorised Person. ( CASA delegate available through the sport aircraft association of Australia ) this may involve some time spent doing phase 1 testing again ( certain number of hours solo in certain radius of home airport)

So it really a cost issue more than anything but might also be some time spent tweaking it back up to speed again.

Sadly have to agree but it's gotten worse.

The reason I have stuck with Microsoft stuff is that it is so flexible. If you want an application to do some variation of its primary action there is usually a way you can do it. With apple you have no choice but to only use the application in the manner apple want. Even blatantly obvious sensible uses may be impossible because apple have decided they don't want you to do it that way.

Up till now I have stuck with Microsoft but used apple where I had not much choice (ipad). But windows 8 is starting the slide of Microsoft turning into an appliance as well. :-(

I guess I'm at the point where lots of engines seem to have trouble. I have done some straw polls and following the various websites, forums etc and there seems to be a more common timeframe at which people seem to have trouble - namely around the 400 hours mark. None of this is found in any statistically reliable study but just from what I seem to be able to come up with in talking to people.

I fly over a lot of tiger country and it has started to pray on my mind a bit.

Mine is going strong too. My leakdowns are all over 70, had the through bolts replaced by Jabiru monitor all cylinders for CHT and ERGHT and all are good.

But still in the back of my mind is a little bit of a germ of concern.

Read some stuff and spoke with someone who has done the research and is also thinking about it and it seems to address the vast majority of the areas where I am concerned. Emailled and got reply from Camit and it seems like a reasonable path to take, except that it will cost either $14K or $18K to effect either rebuild or buy a brand new engine.

John

Thinking very seriously about either swapping or upgrading my near 500 hour 3300 engine for a camit version.

Anyone got a camit engine and what do you think about it?

John.

There are no published p charts for jabiru.

Couple of us from cairns going. Going with tori tours so we don't have much to do. Just pay the money and roll up on the day to catch the plane.

Loads of people from the aero club here been before some as many as 10 times!! I kid you not. Aussies who have done the trip from here 10 times.

I haven't been before myself but everyone says you wont see it all unless you go for at least the whole week.

Listening to an economist today on the radio. Said that qantas staff costs 25% of its costs whereas other airlines are running about 15%.

Doesn't matter what your political leanings or whether you are a union person or not. If you have to pay a quarter of your costs as income you can't compete against competitors who pay 15%.

I got a long Allan key of the appropriate size and cut off the 90 degree bend. Then use an adapter out of a socket set to fit it to the torque wrench.

Fortunately the Americans have seen some sense. The FAA have been forced by someone higher up ( think it was congress but not sure ) to take it all back to the drawing board and they have to show justification why they should make the rule.

In effect they have to show a real benefit and show it justifies the cost.

Doesn't mean they won't get it up again. But I doubt they will because they will have an almost impossible task showing that a sleep study (costing $thousands) in an elevated BMI alone can reduce risk in a problem that already contributes almost zero to the accident profile in the USA.

I've tried Airnav VFR, oz runways and Avplan EFB

I must admit only used Airnav on windows format on a pc not the ipad but I swore by it from the very first version they produced. But they have been left behind by oz runways and I haven't transitioned to the ipad version.

AVplan has the most features but some of the nice little features they have are being included in oz runways.

The best features in avplan are the total inclusion of all data onto the map you are using at the time. Radar Weather, predicted rain, radio and CTR altitude boundaries, runway directions etc can all be overlaid on the map you looking at and it automatically changes to the most appropriate map for your location.

But all things have a down side. I find it very non-intuitive. And I have had a bit of time away from flying in the last year and each time I come back to do a plan I can't remember how to use it so have to get the manual out and learn to use it.

Oz runways is much easier and intuitive to use but it lacks some of the features of avplan EFB.

I'm glad to hear its getting somewhere, albeit at glacial pace with plenty of cost attached. :-(

Keep us posted as to how it all goes.

The staying awake for 40 minute stretches seems a bit onerous and i wonder what its going to prove.

If your sleep test shows obstructive sleep apnoea (OSA) they will pull your medical whether you nod off to sleep next day or not.

If your test shows some small amount of OSA and you don't doze off it might suggest that small amounts are tolerable to you. But I doubt CASA would be generous.

But Now lets say:

Your sleep test shows no OSA but then you do doze off during the day.

That will prove you are tired but since you had no sleep apnoea it must be another cause of it.

Remembering that the deleterious effects of sleep apnoea are related only to the actual events of OSA. Essentially there are a bunch of sleep deprivation issues that arise from the cycling of sleep- obstruct - wake - sleep that occurs. And then a number of cardiovascular issues arising from the carbon dioxide retention and low oxygen levels that go with the obstruction.

If you fix the obstruction ( with CPAP) there are no residual deficits.

No other pilot is required to prove they don't get sleepy during the day from causes other than OSA.

Starting to sound like discrimination rather than medical rationale.

Ok - just to fill you in - I'm a specialist doctor and although its not completely in my field ( I'm a specialist anaesthetist) it is tangentially and more importantly i know how practices work and how often people get bumped around for great expense and poor results when what they need does not fit the "usual" pattern ( and these sorts of scenarios where we are paying for everything and CASA wants specific things, not sensible diagnostic management, are just those unusual pathways I am talking about)

Something you must remember is that very little of the requirements of CASA health stuff are based on sound realistic medical principles. They are based on very conservative arse-covering principles. It's something of a game. They make rules to protect themselves and we as pilots are the ones who suffer. so the first rule is NEVER EVER give them more than they ask for. You must by law give them what you are required to give but you have no requirement to give them any more than that. So if they ask for, or say, a home test is enough then that's all you should give them. Giving them anything more is just giving them ammunition to take something away from you.

Firstly before you go for the sleep study I'd touch base with CASA if you havent already and double check what they mean by a formal sleep study, reminding them you have had one, that you already have the diagnosis and you are already on a CPAP machine (and do they want the study repeated with the CPAP on?) and confirm that the home test you mentioned is in fact enough. Sounds pedantic but this could save you 1000s of dollars for the cost of a phone call. If you can - Get it in writing, an email is fine, so you can show your sleep specialist.

( I'm curious to know what the home test consists of. I assume just a pulse oximeter with some sort of recording of your oxygen saturations but I remain curious) also curious as to how much the sleep guy has to be involved if you do a home study?

If CASA says they are happy with a home one then don't let your sleep guy jump to the next level without a good reason. "Preferring" to do sleep centre based on is not a good reason. Tell him that CASA have said they want a home one. Be pleasant and friendly but point out to that you are doing this for a "CASA follow up for an additional level of medical not for initial diagnosis nor management and they have stipulated you can do a home test." Further, mention that medicare or your fund will not be covering any of this cost so you need to be sure that they are doing the tests CASA wants, ( and remind him they want a home sleep study). Get a full quote for the cost of each and tell them you have to look at whether you can afford the cost of a formal study.

I have patients give me sob stories all the time and I fall for them pretty much all the time ;-)

Ensure if you speak to the sleep practice that any decisions are made by the doctor - you'd be surprised how often the nurse, receptionist or practice manager makes decisions that affect people clinically without the doctor even being aware. When they hear the words sleep apnoea they may automatically follow a predetermined pathway and assume you will have certain things done when in fact CASA may want/be happy with something different.

As for whether to do a mask-less first half then a mask on second half - that's dependant on what CASA want. Since some people only desaturate at certain times of night and since waking in the middle may mask some events, some centres prefer to do a full nights readings without mask and then a full night with. But honestly we know you have OSA without a mask - there is no reason why you should be subjected to another mask-less test for any time. The information required is what happens while you are wearing a mask.

Hope that helps.

Sadly there have been a litany of cases over the past few years where specialists have been over- ridden by the CASA "not-even" GP. Some of the decisions make no clinical sense at all.

Ayavner, I'm curious. Have CASA stipulated you must do the sleep study with your CPAP machine on? Make sure you do it with the CPAP . Cos essentially once you have the machine on (and if its working properly) then you won't have sleep apnoea - that's why you use it). Take it off and your OSA will return and your tests will show you have OSA and then you'll have to do a second one with the CPAP.

Chances are if you go to your friendly sleep study centre they will want to do it first with the CPAP off because they are in the business of diagnosing OSA (obstructive sleep apnoea). Only once they prove its there do they do them with CPAP on. Double the cost to you.

Yep I agree with Bob. I just recycle them. Been doing so for over 4 years. I change all the plugs every 100 hourly/ yearly. If they start looking ratty with plier score marks etc I change them but otherwise just recycle them.

Just to get back to the ordinal posting about NGK D9EA spark plugs.

When you buy them be also aware that they do not come with the caps (not sure what the correct term for the is) on the ends -just a threaded screw post. Even though the diagram on the box shows the plug with the cap in situ.

You need the caps to fit the ignition lead connectors. So if you want new ones you have to usually order them separately. Repco can get them for you but I had to order them. And they cost about $2 each if I recall. Nearly half the cost of the plug. I bought a set once and just recycle them now.

Have to agree with some of the posts. This is a self selecting survey whose design doesn't give any usable information. But the information it could provide is long overdue and necessary.

Could it be rejigged to include engines that have had no problems and what times they have got to.

Then it would be immediately useful.

Yep jabs are proved for use with Mogas.

But I had problems with smell in my j430 for a while and found it was at the lower outlet in the wing root.

If I can suggest - firstly convert back to avgas for a while and then recheck all your connections hose outlets etc. the green blue dye makes finding leaks much easier.

What type of fuel are you after? Proserpine only has turbine fuel. Why not go to mackay. Avgas in swipe bowser. Or Shute harbour.

The answer is a guarded "no". The changes on 4th dec as i understand them apply to pilot licences (part 61) and operations of training establishments (part 140- something ). But who knows what may or may not be affected because casa has released the principles of the changes that will happen but some of (much of) the details won't actually be written yet when it comes into force. A bizarre situation that wouldn't be allowed to happen any other field of industry.

The stuff we are referring to is the building and registration of experimental aircraft etc which as far as we are aware will not be changed by the Dec 4. although there is always potential for unexpected collateral damage.

The overall answer is long winded and I can fill you in on it all if you want more info.

Basically yep you can build one ( any design any size and any engine type or number)

You can have it registered as vh rego and you can do your own maintenance.

Some requirements/ conditions apply to the above but basically it applies.

All sorts of pros and cons to going down that path. All sorts of variabilities that may modify your plans - not suggesting would cancel but might change the approach you take.

Pm me and I give you let's more detail

John Martin

Chapter 34 SAAA president

SAAA Tech counsellor

Owner builder jabiru 430

PPL (aeroplane ) & PPL (helicopter)

[email protected]

quote 1 "GPS or Ipad running a navigation app, to always know where you are.

ANR headset is also nice to have...

Quote 2 "Naughty, naughty. You should always be aware of where you are going by your maps. GPS or any other electronic equipment doesn't negate use of maps."

Well actually it does now! Oz runways or avplan on an ipad are now legal as primary navigation map. You have to have a backup which can be another device with the same programs running.

They are both infinitely more safe, user friendly and accurate than a paper map.

I must admit that I still have a paper map in case all of the 6 GPS i often fly with crashes but also admit that haven't used it for 'real' navigation for hundreds of hours.

Ipad and oz runways works very well.

Its Not only mud that can be a problem. I once got within milliseconds of rolling over a Robinson at cairns airport. Machine had been sitting several days on a bitumen helipad during very hot weather. Skid shoes (plates about 7 mm thick rivetted to underside at front and rear of skids) had sunk into the bitumen. Went out late in afternoon when bitumen had cooled and solidified - "glued" skids to the ground.

Pulled pitch slowly both held for a bit then one side broke free and other side held fast.started to roll and by the time I dumped collective I am sure can only have been a degree or so off dynamic rollover. -very scared stuff.

Sorry. Tried to just edit my previous post but can't for some reason.

Take the following as what I wanted to say.

I'm wondering why you have discounted a jab 230. Seems to fit most of your requirements.

I don't understand your comments about need for a tail dragger endorsement. Do you mean you have a requirement (or want) for a tail dragger aircraft, or just that the aircraft you looked at is a tail dragger and thus would need an endorsement ( and you would not get one otherwise)?

Assuming the former:

The Jab 230 is:

RAAus registerable

RAAus pilot certificate easier & cheaper than PPL & medical issues will be less a problem

600 kg max weight ( but between you and me we know they fly safely to 700 kg cos that's the weight a GA registered version is legally registered for (exact same airframe)

Cabin is big enough for most bigger guys and lots of cargo room in back.

Tricycle gear so you don't need a tail dragger endorsement

You can build it yourself and get to do ongoing maintenance (I think) I'm not really as sure of RAAus rules as I am with experimental)

Only negatives I see are:

Your stated want for trailerable capacity. I don't know how significant that requirement is for you.