Scooby

Welcome Coinz!

 

 

Truly sad, any regular at Caboolture knows this plane. My thoughts to family, friends, and at the Caboolture Aero Club. My heartfelt thoughts and prayers to them all!

 

 

QLD Police update: Update: The ultralight plane wreckage was located just north of Beerburrum - Woodford Rd at Glasshouse Mountains.

 

 

Welcome mate! Good forum community here,

 

Fly safe,

 

Scoob

 

 

Geez mate, all the best for you and the family, hopefully it wont be long and you'll be back on your feet and tuckin into a snag at another Gofly BBQ! Take care

 

 

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It may very well be safe to fly and each pilot is different, but ultimately your the PIC and if you dont feel right then don't fly. The safety of the plane is one thing, you have to feel it's safe within yourself as well. You did the right thing!

 

 

Trikes are awesome, back to basics flying! I fly both trikes and 3 axis. Haven't been up in the trike for a while, the wind up here has kept our toys in the hanger. Enjoy your flying!

 

 

Well done! Remember that feeling well!

 

 

Now you have done it! It's in your blood now :-)

 

 

From what im hearing, Des' wife and 2 other couples were onboard! Anyone who spends regular time around YCAB, knows this plane. It gets around a fair bit. Still got hopes they will be found.

 

 

Welcome Dan!

 

 

Excelent video Sally! Definately enjoyed watching, thanks for posting

 

 

That was Brilliant!

 

 

The bloody roos and birds at YCAB are enough reason alone to be able to go round with power!!At least if the props stopped you might save the prop and only wreck the plane!

For sure!

Fair enough. Thanks for the comments, i achieved what i set out to do by posting this thread and that was to get different opinions from pilots more experienced than me. So thanks guys

 

 

The only way a CFI could possibly prevent the bounce is if he was flying the a/c himself. I'm talking about the student in control and i have ballooned on landing enough times as a student with an instructor next to me to know that he will react after it happens.

 

 

Conrtolled risk is in every part of our training as pilots, but when an instructor gives up that control for only a few seconds things can very well go to crap. Think of it, the instructor shuts down the engine in flight, all procedures are carried out normaly, the student over flairs and now the aircraft is in a bounce, now nobody has any control over the plane and no matter how experienced a CFI is, he cannot 100% prevent this from happening and the risk started when he flipped the switches. At least if the throttle was pulled to idle, the CFI has not lost any control in the risk. Even if the plan was to restart the engine before landing, what if it didn't start and then you are in a position where you have to land it dead stick. Like i said, i can see the benefit of doing dead stick, but the CFI giving up total control is just too much of a risk, and IMHO too dangerous

 

Like Ballpoint246niner said in his earlier post, The CFI must be damn sure he can handle the situation or have alot to answer to. But when he gives up that control for 2 seconds things can go nasty.

 

 

Absolutely. No question. Like all aviation activities, it's about controlling the risks. The trick is not letting the sotuation get out of hand. This should not be a problem for a CFI.

After giving it a bit of thought, you make good points to the benefits of dead sticking. Being that in PFL's everything is simulated, best glide (i can see dead stick, this could be different), engine restart procedures, being in best glide distance, radio procedures, Pax briefing, ect. Is there really any major benefit to teaching a student dead stick? I don't see a problem with it when the risks are controlled as you say, but is the instructor in control when the aircraft bounces and there is no option of full throttle?

I think there may be some confusion. If your chief stops the fan, he is not teaching you how to do it. It's not training on how to shut the engine down. He is showing you what the aeroplane feel, looks and sounds like with the prop stopped.I agree with sentiments that fan stopping for kicks is a silly thing, the rules are quite clear on this. Only a CFi, in the cct under good conditions can do it. It's not a thing to do to scare your mate.

There are Many benefits to be gained by fanstops. The greatest (IMHO) is the confidence gained by the student when he realizes he can still put the aeroplane on a dime with no engine. And after having it dome once, it's miraculous that the student suddenly never let's the aeroplane get outside of gliding distance to a third of the way into the runway..

 

The restart technique while flying is another important training point. Especially if the prop has stopped windmilling. There are a few more tricks pilots learn aswel, such as using the starter motor to move the prop out of the way if it's blocking your vision.

 

I could go on, but I won't. The fact is it's a legal maneuver with huge benefits, and and bread and butter for any instructor.

This is a good comment, it gives me a bit more to think about.Cheers

 

 

Wise words.It's not that you might or might not do a good landing.

The issue is that you have taken an activity which already has some risk, and unnecessarily added to that risk.

 

To compare with gliders is dangerously misleading; they are designed for engineless flight.

 

For a start the glide ratio and lift factor are totally different, then the approach is different as well, then, if you get sink in a glider you can use that massive lift to get yourself out of trouble, whereas with the poor lift characteristics of a powered aircraft hitting windshear you're going SPLAT on the the deck.

 

Having the power pulled on you when you least expect it takes care of the surprise factor, and you still have a job of work to do if the instructor has chosen his point thoughtfully, but you can still use power to correct a mistake rather than bend the aircraft, and you can still escape from windshear.

 

So Scooby I think your instincts were correct, and in this case the airfield location is interesting.

Thats exactly the line of thinking thats in my mind. While completly dead stickin it creates the realism of the situation, is it really necessary? You have that moment before landing that an instructor can't help with if it goes nasty. My instructors sure put me in surprise situations and installed in me solid situation awareness by pulling the power off and saying, "well, what are you going to do"?. I have never been in a glider, but gliding without an engine is what they do. My main point is, if you have a real emergency in flight and the engine stops, do you think to yourself, "I wish i had of done some real dead stick practice"? I can see the point made my mozartmerv about experiencing the real thing, but is the risk worth teaching it to students.

When I learnt to fly gliders we had no engine! I think it does depend on the aircraft getting used though.

Your right Tomo, but the video in question was a CTLS

I recently had a debate with some people on youtube. I watched a video where an instructor was taking a student through PFL practice in which he completely stopped the engine. My point is that by doing this, it has become an actual emergency as now the aircraft must be landed safely. The way i look at it is that if the aircraft bounced, there would be no chance of recovery without the application of full throttle and the instructor has no control over the aircraft if this was the case.

 

My question is, would you consider this an actual emergency? Is there any real benefit to PFL's being done with a completely stopped engine?

 

Cheers

 

 

I watch it for Ariel, she's a hottie!

 

 

Good on ya Russell. Great area for flyin!