bushpilot

Hi Arthur, Well the Savanah would certainly do the job; I have read a bit about it elsewhere in this forum - but it is not the prettiest sheep in the flock (I am a farmer after all...) The Storch is definitely worth considering - as is the Foxbat; both seem to have reasonable STOL capabilities. I have decided to do this thing in 2 steps: I have just bought an Airborne Redback trike, for fun, out there inthe breezeflying - and willdo my 3-axis conversion training on a Jabiru. (I found an instructor nearby that has a new J160 arriving soon). Then in 2007 make the decision at to which 3-axis to buy. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheers Chris

Update on my original enquiry here: I have had2 GA pilots inspect my strip, and the consensus is that I need to do some serious tree clearing on the approach. So, I have taken all the suggestions into account and gone with the one that suggested I haveboth a 2-axis and a 3-axis. I will do this in 2 stages: Stage 1 - I have just bought an Airtime Redback and will complete my 2-axis training on this http://www.airborne.com.au/pages/ml_redback.html Stage 2 - Clear 2 acres of gum trees before upsizing to 3-axis. At this stage a toss-up between Jab 160 or Foxbat. But keep the trike for fun. Can any of you thathave beencurrent on both 2 and 3 axis at the same time tell me how difficult it is to deal with the opposite-direction control inputs? (A-frame and nose-wheel). Thanks, Chris

Wow - Is there some serious experience assembling here! It 's great to see so many pilots that have tried a wide range of aerial pursuits. I figure diversity, in our sport, is the best form of experience - with each category, and type within it, having their own characteristics and learning challenges. Any gal pilotsout there?? Cheers

Fair points made by the last two posts here.... Best to report facts than speculation or theories.. Cheers Chris

Arthur - 'bushpilot' only says I live in the bush.. My intentions are to continue with recreational flying in a form.... I'm tossing up whether to go 2-axis weight-shift (my comfort zone in terms of experience - and no issues with my strip) as an interim step (say 2 years), or go straight to GA-style RAA registered - Jabiru or Foxbat or..... My strip in indeed 700m but has trees on the approach into the prevailing wind (NW, modified by a valley). With the result that the Jabiru and Gazelle that have landed there have both elected to land down-wind, up the hill (3 degrees); they had no problem taking off - down-hill into wind. But making tail-wind landings the norm is then restricting dependent on the wind-speed; I dont want to fly away from home in 5 kts and return to find 25 kts - which would make for a pretty quick ground-speed.... Cheers

Steve, So what is your TT? That is indeed a 'nanolight'; it's a regular hang-gliding wing (Moyes CX5) over Airtime trike base with Radne engine. It was an'experiment' of mine that failed.. The performance of the wing was too high for this set-up; it was designed to be a foot-launch high-end competition wing and was inherently unstable, even in its intended application. On a flight from my strip I gota cross wind gust just after TO, pulled the bar in (nose down) and inadvertently gotsome PIO (pilot induced oscillation) going - and buried it with about 15o nose down.Demolished the trike base, bent wing frame (altho 90mm diam. carbon fibrecrossbarseemed OK) and bent my body up a bit (100% recovery). After thatI decided to let others do the design and testing work.... Cheers bushpilot

Thanks for posting, Arthur. Impressive bunch of hoursyou have there.. Where do youinstruct? H. Park, The Oaks......? You are obviously a very patient person - just checked your 'build' photos; wow - that is doing it 'long-hand'.. Guess it's satisfying, but I wouldnt have the stamina... BTW: You are right (of course) about the Jab. in my picture; I had both Jab and Gazelle visit 2 weeks apart, and had got it wrong in posting my pic. (Will have to change my sig. panel now!) Cheers Chris bushpilot

Guys, I have made a suggestion (in a new topic under 'General Discussion') that membersdo a basic 'experience & type' post - as this will give more relevance to the many (helful) comments that are made... Would be great if u could contribute, as there are severalcontributions here that have been real useful to me.. Cheers Chris

Guys, Being new to these forums I find the answers I am getting to my posted Qs are real helpful; also just browsing the various topics is useful. I want to suggest that members use this topic to post basic background on their experience by type - and their location. This will give even more relevance to the comments that we all make. Hope you agree. (A pic. or two as well would be great!) To start it off here is mine in chronological order(A bit of breadth, but not much depth...): <UL> <LI>Chris Stott Near Bathurst, NSW <LI>Gliders (mainly Kookabura) 15 hours <LI>GA PPL (mainly Piper Colt) 67 hours <LI>Foot-launch Hang-gliders free flight (Moyes and Airborne)600+ hours <LI>Foot-launch Hang-gliders with power 12 hours <LI>Weight-shift 2-axisultralights (mainly Cosmos) 16 hours</LI> Pic shows my last Moyes powered hang-glider(that I wrote off in an accident) and aGazelle visiting our farm. Cheers, ChrisStott bushpilot

I dont get this - "are not appropriate to be spread in the public domain" statement; I thought reporting of incidents is all about educating those that need to know..... These forums are not the SMH or Age - they are viewed primarily by pilots - or aspiring... Incidents are reported in the various Association mags - and they are available to anyone... bushpilot

Tony Hayes makes some compelling points here... Maybe, Tony, you should drop that post (in a revised form) into the General Discussion forum.... I sure found ithelpful in understanding something about the evolution of the RAA; being new to the Assocn,but having beenwith the HGFA for many years, I have to say I wondered about the move to align so closely with GA - and you havehelped explainthat here... Cheers Chris

So Babs - what are you flying?? Any pics? Cheers

Thanks Ross - And no 'shut up' is required here - - it is a long time since I did my GA PPL theory and whilst I'm aware of the fundamentals relating to altitude, your elaboration is very helpful. To date I have only flown powered hang glidersfrom my strip;with 2 versions of power: a power harness (i.e. Radne engine in foot ofharness, but still flown in the prone position, and an Airtime trike base - single seater. You can see both at: http://www.clicknetoz.com/inverness/hanging_around.htm The prone power harness is in the movie clip - but you have to strain to see it! So with this type of machinery I have had no instruments at all (no ASI even) and of course they TO in about 30m! So the altitude affect is not noticeable at all. But moving to 3-axis I will have to take the theory a bit more seriously, which is why I am doing a lot of homework on the considerations and options (of aircraft). Thanks again for your guidance.. Cheers Chris

Just had another thought: My farm is 720m ASL at the front gate and 900m at back boundary..and airstrip is about 800m ASL; so that is going to affect performance a bit... Is ordinary paddock grass (slashed) over a graded (but not compacted) surface...with downhill run for both TO and L - into the prevailing wind. (20m fall over 700m length = about 3%) bushpilot

Thanks Guys, All of these comments are helpful;there sure are a good range of aircraft available in Australia... including the imports. At face value it seems that the design, spec.and execution of a factory built Jabiru presents very good value - when compared with some of the more 'basic' designs that are out there... In fact, nothing seems to come close at circa $75K fly-away.. The only limitation for me is that I prefer an STOL configuration - and there is no such option on Jabiru.. So from here I guess I need to consider whether to accept a lower spec. aircraft to get STOL, or fix my runway approach; means clearing 5 acres of native gum trees.... and would have to get 'her' permission...:) Cheers Chris

Thanks Guys, All of these comments are helpful;there sure are a good range of aircraft available in Australia... including the imports. At face value it seems that the design, spec.and execution of a factory built Jabiru presents very good value - when compared with some of the more 'basic' designs that are out there... In fact, nothing seems to come close at circa $75K fly-away.. The only limitation for me is that I prefer an STOL configuration - and there is no such option on Jabiru.. So from here I guess I need to consider whether to accept a lower spec. aircraft to get STOL, or fix my runway approach; means clearing 5 acres of native gum trees.... and would have to get 'her' permission... Cheers Chris

I hope the Forum rules allow this - but I made the followingpost (edited back a bit here..) on the JabiruUsers sub-forum. Thought I'd drop it in here to broaden my access to the brains-trust out there.. Would appreciate any thoughts.. Guys, To better explain my situation: I came down a similar path to Greg A - got my PPL 30 years ago; had a share in Piper Colt for awhile (Good training those flap-less landings...); concurrently into hang-gliding (foot launch) and logged 600+ hours in those over 25 years (with 10 year gap in the middle - when I was being a responsible dad..). Been back into hang-gliding at our farm, withpower-harness, until I had a real bad landing 2 years ago.. Couple of pics. at http://www.clicknetoz.com/inverness/hanging_around.htm (but not of the hard landing!) Since then I have done 15 hours on ultralights (French-made Cosmos) whilst working in the U.S. -and need 5 hours to complete 2-axis training... which I will do here in Oz. And most recently did 1 hour in Jabiru - to see if I could get excited about going back to 3-axis. I have to admit that I still find an enclosed 'conventional' aircraft is a bit isolating and dull - after hanging out there in the elements and steering by weight-shift; it's definitely as close to being an eagle that man is ever going to get.. But the reality is that I am now 52 years young and the body doesn't like hard-landings anymore - common in hang-gliders - nor the cold.. I have a 700m grass strip - with a 3 degreedownhill slope into the prevailing wind (NW); but the high-side approach is over gum trees... 2 other pilots who have flown GA into my strip have chosen to land tail-wind up the slope (no trees on approach..). So in considering which aircraft to buy (it will be factory built - not kit) I guess I am best to go for STOL (rated around 100m TO, 130m L) and sacrifice a bit of cruise.. The other consideration in hangering at home is maintenance and parts availability - and that plays into the hands of Jabiru... So bottom line - my heart says go buy an Airborne Redback http://www.airborne.com.au/pages/ml_redback.htmland pretend to still be a boy - my sensible side says go getsomething with doors anda cabin-heater... Will make finaldecision in next couple of months - but verylikely to fall the way of 3-axis. Would appreciate any other thoughts regarding, in particular, the constraints of my strip, Thanks and cheers. bushpilot

Guys, I really appreciate all the responses! - in just one day. And the time it took some of you to type your words... (I guess if you're waiting for epoxy to dry in Leeton, Ross, you have plenty of time on your hands!). To better explain my situation: I came down a similar path to Greg A - got my PPL 30 years ago; had a share in Piper Colt for awhile (Good training those flap-less landings...); concurrently into hang-gliding (foot launch) and logged 600+ hours in those over 25 years (with 10 year gap in the middle - when I was being a responsible dad..). Been back into hang-gliding at our farm, withpower-harness, until I had a real bad landing 2 years ago.. Couple of pics. at http://www.clicknetoz.com/inverness/hanging_around.htm (but not of the hard landing!) Since then I have done 15 hours on ultralights (French-made Cosmos) whilst working in the U.S. -and need 5 hours to complete 2-axis training... which I will do here in Oz. And most recently did 1 hour in Jabiru - to see if I could get excited about going back to 3-axis. I have to admit that I still find an enclosed 'conventional' aircraft is a bit isolating and dull - after hanging out there in the elements and steering by weight-shift; it's definitely as close to being an eagle that man is ever going to get.. But the reality is that I am now 52 years young and the body doesn't like hard-landings anymore - common in hang-gliders - nor the cold.. I have a 700m grass strip - with a 3 degreedownhill slope into the prevailing wind (NW); but the high-side approach is over gum trees... 2 other pilots who have flown GA into my strip have chosen to land tail-wind up the slope (no trees on approach..). So in considering which aircraft to buy (it will be factory built - not kit) I guess I am best to go for STOL (rated around 100m TO, 130m L) and sacrifice a bit of cruise.. The other consideration in hangering at home is maintenance and parts availability - and that plays into the hands of Jabiru... So bottom line - my heart says go buy an Airborne Redback http://www.airborne.com.au/pages/ml_redback.htmland pretend to still be a boy - my sensible side says go getsomething with doors anda cabin-heater... Will make finaldecision in next couple of months - but verylikely to fall the way of 3-axis. Would appreciate any other thoughts regarding, in particular, the constraints of my strip, Thanks and cheers. bushpilot

Hi Guys, Ive only just joined this forum - to collect some more information on Jabs. Iam likely topurchase a J160 in early 2007 (depending on how long their waiting list is by then!) and am hoping to find out more about 'in-service' experience from existing owners by then... but also to discover more about othermodels promoted in Oz - Foxbat, Storch, etc. I see that this sub-forum does not have a lot of traffic - but I guess there are not a lot of owners out there at this stage.. Does anyone know if this is the 'main' forum for Jab owners? (I tracked a Yahoo Jabiru forum for some time, but it is U.S. based - and mainly covers engines - not aircraft. Cheers