bushpilot

SOLD! and gone to a good family.. Thanks to all those that have enquired.

Our fleet is now J160, J170 (new config without large ventral) and 2, J230s. All available for private hire as well as training.. (Unpaid advert. :-)

Found the source of our hard starting J230 problem: A dying battery cell. Jabaru replaced under warranty, no quibbles. But to make sure, we now have battery maintainers connected to both our J230s when temps are expected to go below 5 C over night (i.e. most nights here in Bathurst at this time of the year!). We have suspended them from the hangar ceiling, so that there are no cords to trip on and they plug staight into the Jab external Anderson plugs. Works well and the bonus is they condition and extend the life of the batteries.

Hi Carol...I have been vocal here with ways I think we could improve on the great event we already have. Im a great believer in looking forward and planning for the future. Getting kids "bitten by the bug"so to speak is a priority RAA needs to look at. These kids will be the future of our organisation. In saying this I would like to volunteer to help organise the childrens program. I spent 15 minutes on the web and emailed a business and have a response back stating they would be prepared to travel to Temora on the Friday and Saturday next year to set up a jumping castle. I am awaiting their quote. They have also given me the details of another business who has mobile kids entertainment and also has face painting and tattoos. I found a business who sells balsa throw gliders that can be printed with what ever advertising you like. I was thinking "RAA & Natfly" advertising and holding a short balsa glider building session followed by a "see whos fly's the furtherest" competition with a prize at the end. I cant elaborate on the prize as I havent approached the business involved to see if they would be supportive as yet. I would plan on having two full days of kids entertainment.I can organise all this and would just need a section at the airport to run a kids entertainment place. The grass patch in front of the cabins would be ideal. This year it was mostly empty except for a few campers cars. Its central to the camping area, away from majority of traffic, off the active area for planes. I also have a few more ideas but im putting my offer on the table! I will need a little support from someone local to arrange a little marquee or the like for some shade.

 

Let me know if you accept my offer

 

Scotty

So, how do we present all the constructive feedback to the RAA Exec? It needs to be a compilation of the best of the ideas - but who judges the 'best' ideas?

I would suggest staying clear of venue and date change suggestions - and focus on making what we have a better event, without blowing out the cost too much..

Shell has advised that the usual oil (sorry cant recall) should not be used anymore as due to the small amount of oil in the Jab engine, it becomes contaminated with lead very quickly when using Avgas.

Scotty:coffee:

..... I have not seen one jab engine that does not require constant tinkering/ adjustment and I havent seen one make TBO yet! over.,... end rant!!!!

* 3 have gone full TBO

* 1 has 840 hours with nothing more than normal services

* 1 has 400 hours with nothing more than normal services

* 1 has 340 hours with nothing more than normal services

I flew in from Bathurst on both Friday and Saturday - returning each evening. Missed Thursday instructors forum due to weather. My views:

• Landing and parking support - superb. (Brickbat to the RV pilot on Friday morning who joined witha minimal radio call and cut off a Jab on late final, forcing the Jab to go-around..)
   
   
  
• Exhibitors generally of good standard - and well staffed.
   
   
  
• Forums good.
   
   
  
• Needs more PA speakers near the runway fence, where most gather to watch.
   
   
  
• Need temporary street (finger) signs on the West end of each internal road with the forum hangars shown.
   
   
  
• Have a sun-shade in the middle of the open area 50m SW of the Temora Aero Club building with "Meeting Place" signage; to make it easier to find people or re-group after splitting up earlier.
   
   
  
• I never found the RAA registration tent. Nor the Cessna Skycatcher display - where was it?
   
   
  

Hey David - This is huge help - especially in the educative sense. And I'm sure others will benefit from your summary. Thanks a lot.

Hopefully you will have some knowledge of battery technologies as well. We have been doing some research to try and establish if we can use jump starter packs that are designed for 'normal' lead-acid batteries in cars, boats etc. on the sealed gel type used by Jabiru and other a/c. (Chargers are not an issue as there are several designed specifically for gel batteries - eg CTek. These are brilliant - tough and technically smart:

http://batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/10571/multi-xs4003.html

Here is one view on jump packs; you might care to comment on it:

Gel cells and Absorbed Glass Mat batteries are similar to conventional lead-acid batteries, except that:

- the acid electrolyte is in a jelly material or soaked into fibreglass mats (AGM) - this means that they can be used in any orientation, so suitable for aircraft

- they are "sealed" which means that in normal charging and use, any small amounts of hydrogen and oxygen which are produced via electrolysis are kept within the cell, and are able to recombine into water

- however they do have a safety release valve so that if the battery is charged too fast, which results in too much electrolysis hence too much hydrogen and oxygen building up, the gases can escape rather than rupture the battery

- if the hydrogen and oxygen escape instead of recombining, then the electrolyte dries out and eventually the battery fails

So the risk of using a battery booster pack is that the charging current will be unregulated, (especially jump packs with dead battery compensators - ie more punch) hence probably too high, which may cause electrolysis, hence battery damage. It might be possible to avoid such damage by only plugging the booster in for short periods while starting.

This is now a brilliantly helpful thread; thanks guys for all your thoughtful suggestions.. The only reservations I have about trying an A/M solenoid is that we cannot change from factory 'approved' items when the a/c is used for training - which is all 3 of our Jabs.

But what I am really interested in is DavidH10's dialogue on electrical inputs, outputs and resistance; he clearly knows more about spark making than I ever will. Yet when I talk to the local LAME about how to check that all of these things are in order in our Jabs, I get a shrug. So, David, would u be good enough to provide some insight as to how the electrical performance and condition of a Jab motor (or I guess any motor) can be tested? I mean which instrument to use on which part of the system in which order and what readings are normal.

That has to be a better way than trying a heap of things and never knowing what actually fixed the problem....

Thanks for going to the trouble to dig up this info, SBF..

Brian - Ref your suggestion - you are pretty handy with things mechanical - so why do u think spinning it on the starter with mags off first helps? I would have thought that that would take the edge off the battery... It needs the full 12.8V to produce the 300rpm on crank, to start.

At the risk of repeating myself, It's the starter solenoid. Replace it with a quality one and be amazed.Mine starts first turn when it's -7 degrees now.

Stands to reason. If you've done all the other things, and a jump pack won't turn it well enough, then the current is going somewhere else.

 

In this case, I found it to be leaking to earth at the solenoid.

Hmmm - Winter has arrived and now our J230s dont like these cold mornings - even with all the recommended Jab factory mods - drilled choke jets (1.2mm), 19 thou plug gaps, earth wire and fully charged batteries. Even a 900 amp jump pack wont kick one on the 230s into life. Leave it til later in the day when air temp goes above 10 degrees and they both start just fine. Our J160 is fine all the time.

Anyone had recent experience with overcoming 2 degree morning starts??

Anyone got any update news on the "new" (long-nose) J170; info or 'spy' pics?

Deferral of sale - need aircraft until late April - but will now include 'new' 1000 hour motor - by Jabiru factory in April. (Engine is running fine, but will include top-end overhaul in the deal). Same price: $55,000 + GST

http://www.recreationalflying.com/classifieds/aircraft-recreational-1/bargain-j160-499/

Belated post - but Bacchus Marsh turned out to be the perfect parking station with access to Melbourne. Easy to get in to; no landing or standing costs; avgas; 40 min train ride into Melbourne city - Southern Cross. And a very friendly and helpful group of RAA fliers! Thanks Brian and Linda! (And dont forget to start a thread covering your current project!)

Spin,Spot on ... I had a good look at Cessna 162 Skycatcher at Oshkosh last year (2010) and they too had added a huge ventral fin along the fuselage which extend to form part of the rudder bottom ... the Cessna sale chap said it was added to assist spin recovery, following some flight test problems. Interesting to note the 162 I looked at had had a significant tail strike.... The Cessna's tail is only about 2 feet off the ground... at least the Jab has a good air gap to support the ventral.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

I think your best choice would be Coldstream, but you need to phone the RVAC there to get permission and a briefing on the circuit procedures. YCEM is closer to the Maroondah Highway and Lilydale railway station than is YLIL and there is a bus service stopping in the Coldstream township.There is quite a bit of activity at YCEM because the MAF also operates there so you could probably cadge a lift if you were nice :-)

 

When were you thinking and how long for?

 

kaz

I need to be in Melbourne for a conference next Sunday evening.. from Bathurst, NSW. So after looking at the charts, and transport options to the CBD, Bacchus Marsh, or even Ballarat, are looking good; but probably the former.

Now just waiting to see what the weather brings b4 locking in - and locking QANTAS out.. :-)

Cheers

Chris

Thanks for all the tips folks! (No more 'Mexicans' talk - I promise..)

Some good suggestions here - and one that came in by PM - Bacchus Marsh - only 50ks from Melbourne city, with train and rental cars: http://www.travelvictoria.com.au/bacchusmarsh/transport/

Our J160 has 720 hours with no issues -and good compressions; a J230 with 370 hours and another J230 with 290 hours - both good as new on comp's.

Bushpilot, there was a discussion on this elsewhere, Jabiru specifically say DONT loosen bolts before tightening, (not sure why) and as correctly said tension to 22ft lb onlyAssembly tension is to 24ft lb

Biggest error is likely to be doing it when engine is hot

 

I think by not loosening and just testing with 22ft lb, you get a good indicator if tension has changed, ie if it yields then theres an problem.

Anyone know if there is a field at Daylesford? It's not in ERSA, but I thought there was..

I guess Ballarat would have a good train service to Melb. - but still need to get from airport to station.

Hi Greg,It certainly sounds like you have an over heating problem, stuck and broken rings is a clear sign of heat in the Jab ... interesting to know what jetting you have in your Bring?? Also useful to have EGT's fitted in the jab as anything over 1250 F is death and jetting is the best way to manage temps.

 

Head crush is common problem if one is too heavy handed on a torque wrench. They really shouldn't be torqued down beyond 20ft lb (as specified in the manual) after the initial 24ft lb assemble torque value.... any more than 20ft lb and you begin to crush the heads.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

Can any Mexican out there suggest the best airport for RAA a/c to fly into with reasonable public transport access to the Melbourne CBD? Or access to rental cars?

Thanks

And J170 has MTOW 600kgs, against 540kgs for J160. Climbs heaps better - especially in hot weather - glides better on approach, but, yes, takes longer to settle with the big wing. School at Mudgee has J170 in lieu J160 and CFI says he much prefers the 170.

J160 is still excellent for general use - Ive had mine for 3 years - and is cheaper to buy.

Just posted a classified for my 2008 Jabiru J160. Looking to move it out of the hangar in March, so priced accordingly. A bargain for anyone looking for an excellent condition Jab. See advert. at:

http://www.recreationalflying.com/classifieds/aircraft-recreational-1/bargain-j160-499/

Come to Bathurst and test fly it, or arrangements can be made for interstate buyers.