gibby

On 27/06/2021 at 4:10 PM, Yenn said:

Not sure where your destination is but there is the strip at Brown Bros at Millawa. also Beechworth, but that is short and rough. There is or was another strip just East of Millawa owned by a vintner whose name escapes me, he used to fly a Piper and a tiger Moth from it.

Rick Morris is his name, now has a zenith

8 hours ago, danny_galaga said:

Thank you! Did hear from someone close to the source? What a pity. It looked quite damaged in the news footage.

I know the previous owner, doesn’t look like it will fly again, substantially damaged 

VH- SSK, recently acquired by the RAAF flying club Amberley, new engine, 10 hours old failed, no injuries

There is no pleasing/placating you is there.

You have a great deal to offer but your knowledge is tarnished by your inability to allow other opinions, very sad.

You have never been attacked - your own thin skin seems to make you see every differing opinion/ criticism as an attack - get over it.

You take a third party story and you see it as a reflection on yourself - you are not that important

No, I have never done flight instruction - does that disqualify me from rational, logical, objective comment??? Sound's like it.

Whats all this BS about - "and you are ignoring instructors inputs and discrediting them in a desire to deflect concerns about a product you sell." where did that come from ?????

Sure I am passionate about my product , never denied that, but to suggest that I cant make an objective comment, because I try to sell aircraft is... well mountains of bulls excrement comes to mind.

I give you a reasoned argument with examples and that's the best you can do - perhaps your (over) confidence in your own knowledge is clouding you ability to see matters from an other perspective. It certainly doesn't inhibit you from making quit outrageous statements/ deductions from an otherwise simple example.

Facthunter's posts are generally very fair and reasonable, I don't know him personally but sounds like he has a vast experience and knowledge of all things that fly. I have been on this forum for many years and agree with most of his posts.

you are just been a salesman and don't like hearing negative comments on a product your trying to sell/promote, its bad form bagging instructors if you have never instructed because they say the Atec is slippery and tricky to land.

Have to strongly disagree - Your advice may be good for a traditional plans built or "flat pack" delivered aircraft but is out of date for composite types.

 

ATEC aircraft come as very advanced kits. Assuming good organisational/planning skills (everything needed to hand) some basic understanding of 12 volt electrical systems and automotive style plumbing - I would guess delivery to flying condition 3-4 weeks at most.

Cost blow outs will be down to planning failures .

Yep, also with a price tag to match. The more advanced the kit, the more you are going to pay

Your budget will be a big factor in what's the best aircraft for you mission, if buying a kit aircraft it will generally take three time longer to build than you intend and by the time your finished will also cost more than initially budgeted for.

If you have your RPL there's plenty of good well priced small GA aircraft for sale that I wouldn't discount

In every business there must be robust market research resulting in a capital investment to set it all up and then there are operating costs. Capital will be depreciated at certain rates over its taxable and replacement lifecycle. Much of the initial investment is usually borrowed in secured loans such as mortgages. Operating costs usually have to be paid from the income received by the business on an ongoing basis, the costs of servicing the business debt also have to be paid on this basis and the rest is profit after tax. This is why you must be professional and develop a solid business plan both for the short (up to 5 years) and long term (10 years plus).

 

All of this is well and good if your research has determined that your charge out rates or selling price will attract enough customers for the business to continue and preferably thrive. You can still charge double what the bloke down the road charges so long as the service you provide is seen as being worth paying the extra. In other words quality.

 

21st century buyers are now pretty used to the Walmart/Bunnings model and want the cheapest they can get so it is hard though not impossible to pitch at those with more money to get rid of. So why have a trainer that costs 150k when you can have one (new) for 50k less. Flash premises and Expresso machines are also unlikely to attract budding pilots either because they are looking for the best bang for their buck. Unless you have a captive market, charging $400 an hour is not going to get you any business if your competitor across the tarmac is charging $200.

 

More than 50% of new business startups in Australia fail within the first 5 years. Why? Because one or more of the things that should be done was not. Occasionally something comes along that will blow everything out of the water & right now that is Covid-19. The only thing to combat that is diversification and flexibility.

 

When I began my training it was mostly done by Clubs with Instructors building their hours at very little return so they could move to that elusive commercial role. That model has pretty much disappeared now so the cost has spiralled way beyond the rate of inflation because the model is now about making a good living and profit. But if one organisation is charging $200 & providing a quality service why would you pay twice that for the same thing?

Can you tell me what factory built training aircraft is under $50K

There are very few Clubs doing flight training these days due to the many unpaid hours members need to put in to run such an operation and ongoing maintenance costs its become unviable

At $200 an hour with no charge for ground schooling/ debrief they certainly are not doing it for money just maybe just the love

A few years ago I went to Bankstown for unrelated business and remember looking at a flying school with poorly presented aircraft, an office that looked similar and thought to myself, why would I train here. Most young new pilots want flash and fancy these days

21st century buyers also learn the hard way that cheap is not always better

The costs outlined in the original post are probably not that far off, invest in a Sling 2 around $140K, either invest or lease hanger and office/training room, insurance, maintenance and repairs, fuel, if you are paying staff/ instructors there is workcover and other costs, admin, training and regulation costs. Now that we have added all the costs up, if it is your business you actually have to make money.

The only wealthy flight schools I have seen seem to teach international pilots, I am yet to see a general small flight training school that have spare cash laying around

A real contrast to the P210 that had an engine failure at FL160 over an airport.

 

If I had to critique the sling performance, I'd say a bit more height on the final approach with a bit of side slip as necessary would have created a better safety margin (with a bonus of less puckering); and, wear the ELT on your arm above the elbow as it has been designed to do. You don't even notice it, and it's always there ready to go! A plus was the excellent choice of a cultivated paddock. Grass can be very tempting but if it's 2 feet high (and you can't tell from the air), it can harbour all sorts of nasties like felled trees, stumps, washouts, large rocks etc. Always choose a surface you can clearly see above any other. A good landing on a ploughed field rarely does any serious damage. A great performance overall and deserving of a hearty 'Well Done'!

TN

The accident with the P210 turbine was discussed in an earlier thread, he was not over an airport but because of his altitude he could glide back to Moruya, not sure if your familiar with that airport and weather but two very different situations, in the above video there are quite a few options with clear and relatively flat paddocks, Moruya has no options other than the airfield and he didn't miss it by much.

Good job in the above video but wasn't much room left in the end.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/santa-maria-van-nuys-central-california-plane-crash-school-video/2365863/

 

This happened a few days ago in the states, BRS don't always work as planned, but they do have a place and in some instances they would of saved lives

Apart from pilot incapacitation this is a monumental fail.

 

This is just a silly statement without knowing any of the circumstances, as I said in my earlier post there are so many variables that would determine the outcome of this incident.

 

I do agree with the remainder of your post though

 

 

I find it rather amusing that there are quite a few in this thread that seem to think that it would be just so easy to land perfectly on the runway, there are so many factors that would determine the outcome of this situation, the cloud at Moruya has been very frequent of late, the smoke from close by fires, wind, prop may not have feathered, unfamiliar runways and terrain.

 

If there was cloud or smoke on the day he may have had little time to actually see the unfamiliar runways to judge his position and altitude, if the pilot was flying around the world I would assume he was quite experienced, I would also like to know if the few on this thread that seem to think it would be so easy to land and just walk over to the maintenance shop for repairs, how many have deadsticked a turbined P210 at Moruya

 

 

I think there a good trainer, you just need a good instructor, they teach you how to use the rudder in a stall. On a hot day they could do with a few more pony's as climb performance is fairly average at MTOW. They had a bad reputation in the States in there early years for killing instructors and students from the tail departing the airframe during spinning, but they fixed that problem. By the look of the photo and the damage, the airframe has held up fairly well considering the location and trees

 

Hope the pilot has a speedy recovery 

 

 

That plane in the spin: I was looking for evidence of the pilot giving full right rudder but as far as I could see, his right leg was well back and not moving.Also, there was not much forward stick in evidence.

Maybe the whole thing was staged ? Was the plane insured?

Looks like he has full right rudder as soon as it enters the spin, he take pressure of a couple of times and resumes full right rudder again, he then try's forward and back elevator and nothing seems to stop the spin. Why would someone stage that and rely on the chute that you have no control over, there are much better and safer ways to get rid of an aircraft for insurance purposes

 

 

Moment pilot's life saved by parachute attached to out-of-control aircraft - Deadline News

 

Lucky this one had a chute in it! Looks a lot like a Bristell but not certain.

 

Maybe a good idea if Bristell go down the same path as Cirrus and have chutes as standard equipment, there just seems to be a pattern emerging

 

 

For the RPL you will need, an ARN, English proficiency test, 2h of hood time, with 1h being in an aircraft, at least 5h PIC Nav, as Canberra takes rpt you will need a ASIC card. You will need a Medical and then submit the CASA Form 61-1RTX. Then you will just need to do a Flight review and you should be able to include the Controlled Airspace and towered aerodrome as part of it,.

You will need to do more than a flight review to get your CTA

 

 

Everyone should know by now that the media never get the story right and somewhat dramatize the incidents, if it wasn't in Bundaberg it most probably would've been a Cessna. The pilot may be a member of this forum so please consider the way he is feeling right now, you never know next week people may be joking about your misfortune! Glad the pilot is ok, at least the Jab factory is not far away and his bird can be fixed to as new condition asap.

 

 

Flipped plane badly damaged as injured pilot looks for help

Interesting that it's a US registered aircraft.

German pilot they said on the newsN1022W (1975 CESSNA 340 owned by SKY WEST AVIATION INC TRUSTEE) Aircraft Registration ✈ FlightAware

 

 

Category: | Herald Sun

 

Runway was to short

 

 

I had similar problems with a 230, I had a Garmin sl30 nav comm and a microair, tried everything, had avionics guys look at it and they all said low voltage. The only way I could fix it was sell it, and that fixed it!

 

 

As Gravity said, Classic Air Adventures in YWGT, You will also get to see how they restore P40's and lots of other goodies in his hanger, including Harvard, Ryan, Lockheed Junior Electra just to name a few, Doug is a great bloke with a wealth of knowledge in warbirds, he also flies the collection of warbirds at Temora. You will get the whole experience not just a quick lap in the P40

 

 

Your economic facts are indisputable, in real life however, it just doesn't play out like that for cars, planes, boats, motorcycles, etc etc.People want new and the latest.

I couldn’t agree more, that’s why it is getting expensive

LOL.......ah, but you miss the point: It is cheaper to fly RA.......

Its not that much cheaper these days, insurance prices are similar, hangerage is the same, maintenance is a bit cheaper and so is fuel, most RAA planes you see flying around these days are not thrusters or saphires, they are expensive 2 seat 100 knot aircraft. My point with the tecnam for $169k is you can buy a nice C172 for around $70k, that gives you $100k in your pocket for running costs. also a couple of extra seats

Just seen a Tecnam p2008 with 400 hours for sale at $169k plus gst, and he quoted $280k for a new one, you will buy a very nice C172 or 182 for that money. with prices like that it is not getting cheaper