Narrabeenrick

If you are seriously going to do a lot of x country work I would go Continental 0-200 if you can get a good one Perhaps something out of a dead Skycatcher Cessna 162 with 0-200 D. Plenty of those Zenith planes fitted with them. Are you flying VH or RAAus? Nev

No no, I did read exactly that, and I also read that you appear to be "leaning" towards the Jab based on it having fewer reported incidents in 3 pages of accident reports than the Rotax - but you also didn't specify your search term, if you simply plugged "Rotax" and "Jabiru" into the search box, then your comparisons are even more meaningless than simply saying "there was only one Jab engine failure compared to 9 Rotax failures". You will get failures of 503's, 582's, 618's, 914's and the gamut of 912-series. Which ones do you want? Did you break down the failures of 912's into UL, ULS, the early models, etc...The point I am trying to make is, without knowing why they failed (you can't really blame a SkyGod running out of fuel on the engine), and how many hours were flown across the fleet by aircraft fitted with the engines you are comparing against each other, then your investigation will give a flawed result, no matter your best intentions.

 

If you want the most reliable engine you can put in an RAAus aircraft, it is a Lycoming. Why? Because there have been no, that's right, zero, reported failures of lycoming-powered RAAus aircraft to my knowledge. But there are probably only 6 RAAus aircraft actually powered by a Lycoming that might fly a combined total of 300hours a year versus 10 Rotax failures in 10,000 hours. See where I'm coming from?

Just reading another article from ATSB that says

“Aircraft powered by Jabiru engines were involved in the most engine failures or malfunctions with 130 reported over the 6 years.

Unlike the engines of other engine manufacturers in this study, nearly half of the Jabiru engine failures or malfunctions related to a fractured component. Engine through-bolt failures were the most commonly reported failure mechanism in Jabiru powered aircraft with 21 through-bolt fractures reported between 2009 and 2014”

So my next question is if they have replaced the bolts with larger, stronger bolts , then you would assume that if half of jab engine failures they bolt then that should stop half the engine failure ? To simplistic ?

Those figures didn't come from any article, they were used as an example that you cannot rely on simple "x number of failures in a calendar period" as a means of proving, or disproving, reliability. You need to compare apples with apples, ie MTBF as a number of flight hours across the fleet, and without those numbers, any statistics showing Engine A is more reliable than Engine B is both meaningless and misleading.

I'm an air cooled engine man and prefer direct drive also BUT when using an engine in a Stol aircraft I think your are better off with water cooled and reduction as it suit slow flight. The Jabiru would require a finer prop for short field to develope its full horse power, where a Rotax an developed a lot of power because of a reduction box.Cooling is an issue if your going to climb steep and slow.

Cheers

Firstly let me say that we don't allow any unwarranted digs against any engine on this site, the posts just get deleted. It can just come down to a Holden vs Ford thing and eveyone has different opinions of what they just simply preferSome things I would be thinking about are:

 

1. Which engine fits/works better in the airframe you have chosen

 

2. What about CofG of the aircraft with the different weights of each engine

 

3. What horsepower do you need

 

4. What type of flying will you be mostly doing

 

5. How easy is access of the different fuels

 

6. What resources do you have at the airfield i.e. other aviators, lame etc that you have access to to discuss any issue you may come across

 

These are just some of the questions I would be thinking of to answer the question. The above may not be of any use but just in case it does help

They give you a choice of

Jabiru 3300

Continental O-200

Corvair

Lycoming

Rotax

CofG not sure

They recommend 100hp to 130hp

I plan on touring

MOGAS (95 RON)

and lastly not sure .

Like I said I'm open to either as well as the UL power ! and thoughts on that engine as well ?

Cheers

Rick

But why did those Rotax's fail? And what was the total hours flown in that period vs the Jabiru engine? Eg, it there were 9 Rotax failures, and rotax's flew 9,000 hours, vs just 1 jab failure, but the total jab fleet flew 500 hours, the Rotax's are still twice as reliable as a Jab.Without knowing figures like these, it is impossible to make an informed decision. That being said, unfortunately Jabiru engines have a stigma associated with them know, whether deserved or not, so everything else being equal, resale is likely to be significantly better with a Rotax, but again, that is only part of the story. What about performance figures between the two? Overhaul intervals based on fuel anticipated fuel usage?

Hi guys .

I’m looking at building the Zenith CH 650 and looking at engine choices, the 2 engines I have flown using like most are the Jab’ and the rotax. In all the forums I always see people knocking the jab’ motors and raving about the rotax. I’m am only new to this game so I’m trying to keep an open mind and rely on fact and figures not here say and or bias opinions. I can be swayed either way.

I have just been on the Ra Aus site looking at the “ Accident and defect summaries” page I only got through the first 3 pages of engine “loss of power “ and “ failures “ here is what the stats tell me so far

Rotax engine “loss of power “ and “ failures “

28/01/17

26/01/17

6/01/17

28/12/16

28/12/16

23/12/16

8/12/16

18/11/16

18/11/16

Jabiru

31/12/16

That like I said first 3 pages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know which way I’m leaning . Any thoughts?

Cheers

Rick

I had to change flying schools recently which meant changing instructors, luckily both have been great, I did have a fill in instructor one time when my normal instructor was crook. That was a horrible experience, I vowed never to fly with her again. She constantly touching the controls without telling me, I never knew who was in control, both the other instructors would let me deviate and see if I picked up my mistakes and corrected them without being told, the women instructor would always be touching the controls without telling me and never allow me to make mistakes. I think you just need to be a good match. It makes for a much more pleasant flying experience.

Cheers

Rick

Thanks for putting up the results Woofy' interesting reading. I was surprised that pilots practicing beat students practicing. I'd like the hear what some the seasoned pilots here think of the results. I noticed on other treads in here a few don't agree with sims.

I wonder at this type of "flying".Firstly, it's not really "flying", is it? You couldn't make a real airplane do that, so apart from its entertainmanet value, it doesn't relate to flying as practiced by human beings or even birds for that matter.

Secondly, after seeing the advances in software that are applied to things like drones and helicopter models, I wonder how much of that performance was his personal skill and how much was software aided.

 

I admit, it is a very entertaining performance. One that leaves me wondering how it was achieved.

I would have to disagree with you there mate, just because you aren't in it doesn't mean it's not flying! you still need a certain skill level to fly these thing. When we are in your planes, our view never changes ,stick left plane goes left and it never changes. In the models your view perspective changes constantly, so when I have the model coming at me everything is reversed when its coming at you inverted different again . Your eye hand coordination has to be spot on, I have no time to think.

When I have my F3 tornado swing wing rc ducted fan jet coming at me at well over 120km low level inverted !! IT is a massive rush I can tell you!!! sometimes it doesn't work out :{

As for your comment advanced software, the drones and stuff are for all the plebs, that's no RC flying we flying, the guys that fly these thing fly it for the enjoyment of stick and rudder flying, please don't for one minute that away for the skill level required for these things.

Cheers mate

Rick

PS . love your videos on youtube, keep them coming

What about this one.

MERLIN PSA QUICK-BUILD KIT PRICE LIST

AIRFRAME CLASSIC KIT:

Quick-Build E-A/B Airframe Parts Kit: Spars & Sub-Assemblies Are Riveted

All Parts Are Pre-Fabricated And Pre-Drilled.

Includes Composite Gear, Wheels, Brakes, Control & Fuel Systems $16,500

POWERPLANTS

Rotax 582: 65HP Electric Start, B Drive, Oil Injected $6,900.

I presume that is US $

but nice little aircraft

Not by me either Rick. An arbitary figure of 100 hrs of rec flying per annum per pilot is actually unrealistic in particular if, as an unretired pilot you work for a living, support a young family and are a young hrs pilot who only flys to enjoy it, not for some macho challenge and is very particular about the weather you fly in. All of which means you need the abillity to fly when YOU can and that means ownership in some form. As a by the by Befor buying my first aircraft I to looked at the folding wing options that are available and found that none of the options are able to be folded and transported in any degree of safe secure and damage free long distance trips. The structures are designed to provide structual integrity in flight not banging down the highway semi detached so that pretty much takes the option out unless your close to your field already. Cheers Hargraves

" The folding wings option (FWO) allows the STOL CH 701’s wings to be folded back alongside the rear fuselage, providing added convenience for storing or towing the aircraft. To fold the wings, the four wing bolts must first be removed, and then the wing is turned upward 90� and folded back alongside the fuselage, pivoting on the folding wing ‘universal hinge’ attachment. The folding wing option does not change the wings’ attachment points, and thus does not weaken structural attachment points."

As for the transportation side I'm sure I could make up some type of system to lock and hold the wings if I feel their system isn't good enough .

Cheers

Rick

Cant give you a spreadsheet but can tell you owning a 2013 Alpi Pioneer Rotax 912ULS and flying around 200 hours a year ends up costing us around $70 ish hour all up including rego, licences, hanger rent $180 pm and that's wet with all servicing cost and any replacement parts so far. This does not include opportunity cost of the money, as to me that's not what life is about... some opportunities don't need measurementYou will never be able to justify buying your own aircraft based on $ alone... just like boats, houses and snow chalets, it always works out cheaper in groups...

 

But what you cant measure is the fact, if i feel like going flying anytime I can, I dont have too book ever, I can fly it at all the popular times, when club or shared aircraft are in demand... Take a flyin for example,good luck getting a club plane for that....

 

The other big plus of your own aircraft, is I know exactly every time its had even the slightest of rough landings, every time the temp has got warm and every time its had a wash etc... there are no unknowns...that's a big plus if you start flying any distance or over tiger country etc...

 

It scares me the way some club aircraft get landed and then the next person hops in none the wiser....

 

These are all the things you cant put a $ figure on....

 

At the end of the day you either want one or you dont... if you really want one you will find a way to afford it...and make sacrifices elsewhere...

If I didn't drive my car , just to have it sitting there for the year would cost me ,what rego and insurance ? there is at least $3000. It's the same logic

How much do you think it would cost you if you flew say 75 hrs to 100 hrs per year? And don't included the hangar fees. Cheers

Not by me Rick, good argument for ownership.Gimballock! the Hummelbird's too small for you but the newer ultracruiser will fit your size, you'll have to check the hummel websight, or w3.flyhummel.c for the plans to suit.

spacesailor

I'm sorry, I just don't get in when people get on here and say stuff like " if you don't fly more than 100hrs it's not worth owning a plane" Call me naive or whatever. If you are that OCD about drawing up spread sheets and including engine replacements factoring in items that may cost $100 3yrs down the line, Holy crap just admit you are a tight arse and forgot about owning a plane. If I need a tyre 3yrs down the track I'll fork out the $100 then.

IF I EVER was lucky enough to clock up 2000hrs in a plane I'd be ecstatic ! even if you did manage to fly your 100hrs a year that's 20 yrs down the track before an engine change!!!!

I just down get it SORRY !

I would like to build a kit myself, I've looked into them, the one I'd like is the Zenith 750 CruZer with the folding wings. That way I can trailer it home. 1. for security 2. for storage and save on hangar { $1500 per quarter, that is price I was told } and 3. So I can look after it myself.

Where in you spread sheets do you factor in convenience, security and ease of maintenance? where in your spread sheets is piece of mind knowing that your own aircraft is well maintained no fool before hand has damaged the aircraft and your the next sucker on there!

It's all we and go to tell people it cheaper to hire an aircraft than own one , but hire and fly it from where? I've asked on this forum before and no one could help me. I'm Ra aus low hrs Just completed my 2nd solo, when it comes time to hiring and aircraft to build up my hrs, where do I go? Can't do Bankstown or Camden, The oaks is an 1hr45 or even longer if there is traffic, there is Warnervale {1hr 5mins } but no one hires up there. So what are my options apart from owning! and if owning cost more than hiring so be it, In reality what is the major cost of ownership if I have the aircraft at home, and I do the week long engine course at either Jabiru or Rotax? rego and insurance? And here is my naive bit ! so Am I wrong, Not being a smart arse, I'm open to ideas and info, I want to learn from experience that you guys can provide.

Cheers

Rick

PS: I'm sure I'm going to get beat up over my comments :{

Hey Rick, I know what it's like to change flying schools and planes, it delays the process significantly, doesn't it? But look on the bright bright side, it makes you a better pilot!Tony

Yippy !!!! Finally got to do my second solo. 3 touch & goes and a very dodgy full stop . It's been a long time coming as Sydney Jabiru flight school closed down just after I did my first solo, had to swap schools and get use to a new aircraft, was flying the Tecnam Golf now in a Foxbat. No nerves like my first solo, but didn't enjoy it as much this time, Don't know why, Maybe the pressure of getting the touch and goes right maybe still not quite comfortable in the foxbat like the tecnam, Also just seemed to be more work load this time ???? Anyway Made it down in one piece HAPPY DAYS

Cheers

Rick

Hi Guys

Here is a website I watch a fair bit AIRBOYD

It's got so much stuff. Down the bottom you can change the archives and categories.

Cheers

Hi Woofy

I am a student pilot, I was told by my before I started with my lessons by the flight school to get a sim.

I love it and can't believe anyone wouldn't get one. I only go for a lesson once a month. I video every flight with a GoPro I watch it each time before I go up for a lesson and run through the lesson in the sim. I practice my run ups ,take offs, circuits, stalls , pre landing checks, I run through the BUMPFISH checklist for landings on the sim, VERY HELPFUL ! With the length of time between my lessons the sim is fantastic.

I practicing engine failures on take-off, after take-off , Forced Landings, running through all of the immediate actions and picking a landing area, as all you guys know there is so much the remember and do for a forced landing and for a student pilot it is a lot to take in, the sim just helps to remember and get a bit more fluid in your checklist run-throughs and reactions. I see a lot of negative comments about flights sims and I just don't get it !!! A flight sim used in conjunction with your normal lessons help to retain what you have just learnt. I cannot see how anyone could possibly say to a student pilot not to get a flight sim, I think we should use ALL!! tools at our disposal to

make us better/safer pilots.

Obviously this is just my opinion but from a student perspective.

Cheers

Rick

That sucks mate, I'm sure you'll be back up to speed in no time! I've got in another solo flight since, which I put on my you tube channel but kinda boring I guess, just more of the same haha I'm getting close to an area solo which I'm really looking forward to!!

The new school has a fair few students and 2 planes so it's hard to book the plane when I want. The last two times I booked it rained !!!! #$@!

Good work mate! You are ahead of me now :{ still haven't done my second solo. My flying school closed down, had moved to another school with different aircraft, now I have to get comfortable with the new plane. Great vid' mate

Cheers

and one of the Paul Bennett crosses.

What a great day. Roulette's were as good as ever

So I did fine in my exam, Narrambeen ricks information was bang on and covered everything nicely. Didn't realise I needed to do a radio exam as well before I could solo haha but I did fine in that too. Cheers for the help!