Super Cub

Quote....."I guess I just assumed if they were as high compression as the old Cont and Lycos, they would require higher octane fuel than the 91 most car engines can run on now."..............................................I'm not sure how the expression " as high as the old lycos ect;" arose. Those engines were/are as low a compression as any that were ever built since the thirties. and why they "need" 100LL is a bit of a mystery. Fear of detonation maybe? or fuel vaporisation fears? I run my 0-200 on 91 unleaded. (6.7-1 compression ratio) There are , modern motorcycles especially, that are up around 11-1 that run beautifully on 91unleaded. if you could get a Continental 0-200 with a head design that would run with such compression

 

then it would be a 160-200hp beast. At least................ although it may have to turn a bit faster than 2700rpm. .

Is your 0-200 a Continental?

Did you do any modifications to it to run it on 91 Unleaded?.

I would have assumed it would risk detonation otherwise.

So from what I'm reading here (Conts and Lycom) are considered low compression engines. Yet many still run on Avgas rather than Mogas. Is that a manufacturers requirement. Why?

Are modifications required to run these engines on Mogas. If so, anyone know what mods are required?.

Cheers

Yes I have read a bit about the Viking. I liked the look of that, and the Suzuki.

Haven't heard much more about them. How many are being sold and installed in aircraft nowadays.

Perhaps not hearing much about them is good. Are they being used and we are not hearing much about them because they are reliable?.

Bex. Yes, I didn't know car engines were high compression and have been for so long. I guess I just assumed if they were as high compression as the old Cont and Lycos, they would require higher octane fuel than the 91 most car engines can run on now.

Depending on parts pricing though, this new engine sounds brilliant, as it takes us back to the 2700 rpm engine many of us are used to from GA, with no gearbox required.

I certainly like that.

Cheers

No, it's a scratch engine with some design roots taken from an 0-200.QUOTE]

I didn't know modern car engines are equally high compression as the old Continentals or Lycos.

Big question is going to be price. Are they stating it will likely be half the price of a O-200 ($12500), just to spark everyone's interest, then when its finally released, the price escalates.

Realistically, If they want to get a huge footing into the market, they need to keep the price down, otherwise people generally stick with the known, trusted brands IMHO.

It has vertical valves and with the power gains I suspect a modern bathtub chamber shape and flat top piston (as I was suggesting Jabiru should do a few days ago), if that's the case then it should be able to run on most fuels.

Even better if you could run it on Mogas 95 or 98, or Avgas.

Certainly hope they are successful. If their cost estimate is correct and the engine is reliable, They will likely become the No1 engine choice for Light aircraft.

I noticed they cut the high power video short. Not sure why. More development required.

I didn't see the fuel type mentioned in the article. Mogas (98?) or Avgas. I would guess Avgas.

Good luck to them.

I will be following their progress with keen interest.

[No message]

What trashy sensationalist reporting.

The so called reporter stated 'The engine stalled'.

No one else mentioned anything about an engine failure.

Another reporter to avoid.

I priced a 912 recently at ENGINE ROTAX 912 UL S 2 $22,490.00

 

add say $4K at worst for accessories doesn't equal $31k or am I missing something?

Radiators - oil and water, exhaust, engine mount, tanks, tubes, air box, filters. Not sure how you get on with warranty if you don't use those extras, making your own for example.

Those extras are $6500.

Then strangely, after asking for prices in Australia, GST is NOT included in the prices.

Maybe I don't have to pay it for some reason.

Quick tally = $31975. Maybe other parts needed, freight.

Installation cost on top of that. Then if you require new cowls etc. Maybe looking at $35,000+ to re engine an aircraft.?

Maybe someone on here has done it. Id like to know your final cost.

I will be going down the viking honda 130 route I cannot see the money in a rotax. Viking Aircraft Engines HF-110

He made the Subaru aero engines before his company went bankrupt in the big depression (2008-2009). Then started Viking.

One thing I did like about the D-Motor was higher capacity engine, working less,.... and direct drive.

Closer the Lycomings I like.

="Geoff13, post: 621203, member: 11655"]I actually went for the Rotax in the end. The price you quote doesn't include several items.I believe from memory as I can't be bothered digging out the paperwork but the difference between a new

Jab 80hp $10500.00

 

Camit 80 hp $11500.00

 

D-Motor 92hp $25000.00

 

Rotax ULS 100hp $33000.00

 

Weight comparisons to the 80hp Jab motor that was in it

 

These were calculated figures

 

Jab no change

 

Camit plus 1 kg

 

D Motor plus 3kgs

 

Rotax plus 12 kgs (Actual weight difference after doing the job and weighing the plane before and after, was plus 10.5 kgs.)

You would never get your money back later, when time to sell, and it would cost more than many other used LSA out there.

If it was $11,000, I would have done it already.

Hence the interest in D-Motors, or even the new design Jabiru engines. But we will have to wait a lot longer to see how they both pan out.

Certainly if a reliable $11,000 alternative was to become available, perhaps then, Rotax's only customer would be the US Military.

You can buy a pretty decent new car with a damn good reliable 180hp (ish) engine for $33,000.

It just doesn't really add up. (Yes, I know, car engine vs aircraft engine).

You pay GST on every cost incurred in purchasing the item overseas. That means everything you pay out for, in that country.You have to provide a paperwork trail that covers every facet of the purchase, from communications to instructions, as well as every invoice you have paid out on, between ordering the item and it landing on the deck here.

Yes, quite often there is additional import duty on an item, besides GST, up to 5% duty.

 

However, this time, you get lucky. Aircraft engines are duty-free upon entry to Australia.

 

http://www.border.gov.au/Tariffclassificationofgoods/Documents/chapter84goods_a.pdf#search=tariff aircraft engine

 

Don't forget there is also a raft of charges associated with importation of goods. Things like Customs Dept recording fees, security fees, bond store fees - the list goes on and on, and can add several hundred dollars more again, on top of GST.

No duty, that's good.

Funny how opening that link takes you to Nuclear Reactors 5% duty at the top of the page.

Id rather a Rotax 912 anyway.

I actually cancelled my order for a couple of reasons but it was going to be $23750.00.That was everything except the radiator.

I recently priced a Rotax 912ULS. It was around $31,000AUD (without knowing exactly what of the listed options I would require).

Difference of $6000 here in Aus.

Airfreight to Aus 2 yearsago was about $1250.00 from memory.

So about $1500 now including gst. Maybe a bit less if your $1250 included gst.

Was that for a D-Motor or Rotax from Europe?

I imagine there would be a lot more flying if you could have one installed and running on the front of your plane for the same price or just slightly less than a Jabiru. If I'm doing my math correctly it's the same price to put a rotax up front... I'd go with that before shelling out a heap on a gamble.

The 92HP LF26 is listed as $20,700 delivered on the Aus website. However I've just found them advertised in the back of the Sport Pilot magazine for 12,600 Euros + shipping + GST.

Not sure, don't you pay GST on shipping.

How much would shipping be?

Would there be an import duty on top of the shipping and GST?

I would expect it to come out higher than $20,700 AUD delivered.

Good price for a LF26?

I hope they succeed, but I would prefer many more examples clocking up hours.

The Rotax is very over price IMHO, but there are not a lot of alternatives.

I've just searched the Tecnam P2002 reviews. I was very surprised to see the number of accidents world wide, that seem to note (engine problems) for the accident. They have the certified Rotax 912.

I don't know much about the aircraft, hence researching, but are there that many forced landings with Rotax 912 engines happening?

That's all I'm flying behind at the moment.

Super Cub,D-Motor engines flying in UK/Eire that I know of are:-

The UK dealer has his demo Hawk and one more customer aircraft due to fly this week.

 

There are 2 other Hawks in the UK, plus an Xair Falcon (F with flaps).

 

The Light Aircraft Company (TLAC) based at the delightfully named Little Snoring airfield have a couple of Sherwood Rangers flying.

 

In Ireland, just me, so around 7 or 8 engines total.

 

Nick

I'm glad the D-Motor is working well for you.

I really thought after 5 years (since this thread started), there would be more of them flying.

Hopefully as more engines clock up a few hours (reliably we hope), they will become more popular.

Cheers.

Yes, the oil leaking past a bearing explains the oil in one of the cylinders.

No explanation yet (that I can see), as to what caused the crack in one of the cylinders.

My D-Motor LF26 still going well at 395 hrs.with the original single ECU setup. Power is considerably more than the Jab 2200 and fuel burn pretty much the same at 13-14 L/hr for my installation.In terms of redundancy, I don't see that a single ECU is any worse than a single carb which is what most light aero engines run with and at least with EFI you don't have icing worries.

I have done in-flight stop and restart with no problem, other than slowing enough so the prop wasn't windmilling before hitting start to avoid damage to the starter gears.

 

To me it sounds like some of the problems above are installation related rather than strictly engine, but I would have to agree that their current documentation is very basic which doesn't help .

 

Don't understand the cold water cracking saga, I run without a t/stat summer and winter and haven't had a problem yet (nothing like tempting fate!). Water runs mid 80*C and oil 85-95 *C depending on engine load. At the request of the factory, a full power climb for almost 5 minutes (I hit our local ATC ceiling) got the oil up to 106*C and water still under 100*C with my cooling system, but this isn't something you would do very often.

 

I have posted before that I flew the 6 cylinder in Belgium in a very unsorted installation. A prop that couldn't handle the power and poor cooling, but it still went well, was smooth and sounded great. I believe the main user of the 6 so far is a German helicopter company, not sure how many are up and running.

 

Nick

Are there many other D-Motors operating near you?

Looks like the 'cold water cracking heads' was false. He said it was oil leaking past a rod. Check Kyles Savannah link a few posts back.

Cheers.

The Foxbat has a bar across the top of the cabin. I was concerned in a sudden stop, I would hit my head on it.

If you are long in the Torso, it may be an issue.

Normal flying it wasn't an issue.

Only way to know is have a sit in one yourself.

Tall pilots sit further back, with their head high in the cabin. So your eye level is only just under the wing. I find this restricts your view, and with the belts snug, you cannot lean forward to get a better view sideways. (as I used too in Cessna high wings).

The low wing are always at the higher end on the 'hourly rate' scale it seems, possibly as they are more expensive to buy.

I prefer low wing aircraft, but strangely, I've only flown high wing LSA lately.

Thanks Kyle.

-----------------------------------

That's the only recent Info I can find on this engine.

That's a bit strange considering back in 2012 there was a bit of talk on the LF26 and the nearly released LF39.

Internet searches on reviews or reliability draw a blank.

Wonder what has happened. I was hoping there would be quite a few 4 & 6 cylinder models clocking up some hours so we could get an idea on reliability & cost of operating.

If cold water is cracking heads in Sweden in Summer, I wouldn't want that engine in a Swedish Autumn or Winter. Very strange explanation of that engines issues.

There must be plenty more of these engines out in aircraft now (5 years later).

If anyone finds anything, please post here.

Thanks.

Thread revival.

I like the look of this engine.

What's the latest on it. The last post was over 18 months ago.

Reliability

Number operating worldwide / and in Aus.

Any issues

6 cyl version

Actual fuel flow figures 4cyl / 6cyl

Cost of operating compared to Rotax 912

I read a few pages back, someone ordered one in Aus a while back, then cancelled the order. Some issue in Aus?

Thanks.

I'm glad I learnt to fly in the days where no one would consider charging for briefings.

Never operated one in that lower Ground temp.

But good to know.

Noted Thanks

Suitable is getting down asap before things deteriorate.I would rather sleep on the ground than under it.

Learmonth.

RWY Length / Width

PCN Rwys / Twys / Parking

RF

Maintenance

Ground Agents

Suitable Airbridge / Airstairs

Accommodation / Transport for PAX

Tug / Towbar

Rwy Lighting

Nav Approaches available

Weather

Doesn't tick many boxes for Suitable,......unless you were on fire!, Then its Captains Call, and defend your actions later.

In the case of an Emergency / Malfunction that requires an immediate landing, you are required to 'Divert to the nearest SUITABLE airport'.

Departing Perth for Kuala Lumpur, 1.5 hours from Perth, your Nearest Suitable Airport is Perth.

Nothing else is Suitable for a 200 Ton Aircraft.