rick-p

Thank you for what you do in respect of running this site Ian.When me lotto nimbers come up, I'll send yer a wheelbarrow of these new five pound notes we've just been issued,. . .you can put them in a washing machine. . .as they are plastic. On a state pension, until then I'll have to freeeload here. . .( ! )

 

I Am in the dark here as to why there are 'Political' problems with various organisations although, it seems somewhat similar to the troubles we had a few years back with bitching and backbiting between the Popular Flying Association ( PFA - Now the LAA ) The BMAA (British Microlight Aircraft Assiciation ) and the CAA in the UK.

 

We now have both umbrella organisations working hand in glove to sort any and all difficulties with all factors governing the operation of Microlight / Light sport aviation, and agreed delineation of tasks. The CAA have become very reasonable in their approach also, and have recently reduced the medical requirements to a sensible level, ie, if you can drive a car on a freeway / motorway at seventy miles an hour, surronuded by 40 tonne trucks, then it is not unreasonable to assume that you are medically fit to fly a light aeroplane too. So the CLASS 2 semi-commerial medical has now been trashed for private pilots. and not before time.

 

We can now fly any aircraft up to a MTOW of 2000 Kgs on the strength of a UK driving licence and a voluntary admission of any particular medical condition which would preclude driving a car.

 

We shall soon see if this was a bad idea, If half blind drivers start bumping into to other half blind drivers in the air. . . . .

 

I don't join in arguments regarding Aussie Aero-Poltical stuff, as I really don't understand what it's all about. but I hope that they all sort themselves out instead of behaving like bloody children having their sweeties nicked in the school playground. . . this attitude assists no one and restrains advancement of everything. . .

 

United we stand brothers and sisters. . . . YAY !

Hey Phil nothing to do with your post I was just wondering if you know a Mark Hoggett, fly's trikes?

 

 

This is an important announcement to ALL users of this site.As been done many times this site has offered to work with RAAus however that has always been met with stern refusals. That is their choice not this site's.

 

Recreational Flying by the same token as above will work with and support the ELAAA in any way it can should they choose to in the same manner that has continously been offered to RAAus.

 

This valuable resource can offer a lot in helping the promotion, help and support to all recreational aviators and is willing to provide a positive connection between this site, its thousands of users and any governing body that wishes to avail themselves of it. RAAus has continually declined that to a point of negatively attacking this site over 13 years. If the ELAAA wishes to avail themselves of creating a working relationship instead then it will be welcomed with open arms and even to a point of the establishment of a memorandum of understanding. The same has always been offered to RAAus.

 

So from this point on, any post in the forums or anywhere else on this site that pits one against the other in any form, any subjectiveness what so ever will see the post immediately removed by one of the moderators, wasting your time in writing it and wasting the time of the moderators.

 

This site is an open window to the world wide public on recreational aviation, there are representatives on here from CASA, ATSB, many different media outlets, politicians and many other registered users from all avenues that have an interest in our industry. We need respectability in our industry and if having another governing body assists that then we should all be seen as supporting that goal.

 

Ian Baker

 

Recreational Flying Administrator

Ian without wishing to create another which is the best brand argument on what is a much appreciated. by the majority of the flying fraternity web site, I would like it to be known for those who are interested in finding out some facts in respect of the company Experimental & Light Aircraft Aviators Australia (ELAAA) then maybe they should attend the CDFG Fly-In at Thangool Airport this coming weekend Saturday 1st Oct to Mon 3rd Oct as I understand that there are to be some announcements made over the weekend.

 

 

Please show me where I have accused the owner of this site of ANYTHING

thoseAnd I would ask the above author to show me where in these forums anyone claiming fame to the ELAAA has been attempting to undermine RAA. Individuals are entitled to voice their opinions but it should be remembered that the opinion of the non associated individual is not necessarily the opinion of an organization.

 

 

It really is amazing how it can be said by certain people in these posts in descibing others as inept and inexperiences or words to that effect and then have the gaul to them say that they are undermining RAA. On reading these posts it would appear that a number of the old diehards are in fact attempting to undermine anyone that comes along in the hope of presenting a fresh approach to the industry. Yes industry, it needs to be run like a business and give it's consumers what they want and need. And why I wonder does CASA always come into the equation as the evil twin sister? Is it not the case that they are the Regulator and instead of performing like spoilt brats when you don't believe that a particular issue should not follow a particular parth then lobby and negotiate don't just pack up your toys and go home to sulk. You all talk about apathy of members. Well hello members don't want to be proactive they want to just fly. It is the organization that is the one that needs to fight for improvement and be compliant at the same time with the regulator. Membership is a state of mind whereas a business has to be proactive and achieve, always improving the product otherwise it will go belly up and it's not the customers that lose out it's the owners of the business. What's the best job you can have regardless of return by way of income, it's working in an area that is also one's passion. ELAAA, well only one of two things will happen it will either succeed or fail and that is a matter of fact and which ever way it goes it will in my view have a positive effect, the flying will benefit because it will in success have another choice and in failure have strengthened the resolve of RAA members and possibly with any luck assisted in getting RAA to get it's act on compliance together. Also I would liken the present situation with ELAAA as being similar to the realease of of a new Ford or Holden, you only get tit bits to think about until the unveiling of the new product, that's business isn't it? You guys i would say are certainly helping by giving it a lot of airtime and maybe in the procees of doing so calling into action RAA. One would have to ask themselves why did RAA take the country road and become a company. My two bob's worth!

 

 

So much negativity, gentlemen can't you see the forest for the trees. My interpretation of the White report is that the Government need to ensure that there is competition in the industry not a tardy she'll be right mate because they have nowhere else to go, they have no choice and therefore, they have to come to us. If ELAAA does work then this will see RAA get stronger and more accountable for it's services to it's subscribers. Things can't get any worse now can they? Some love Holden's and some love Ford's it really boils down to a matter of choice, doesn't it. Also maybe ELAAA is not entering the arena for the sole purpose of running the same race as RAA it may also be covering choices that RAA don't, simple isn't it, it could be filling a nitch that at this time presents itself as a void.

 

 

New organisation? Ummmm has anyone actually checked the ELAAA web site! I have. And dodgy!!!! Brings up this person ( fake account) when clinking the web site link ..?[ATTACH=full]45964[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]45965[/ATTACH]

ELAAA is not a fake account it works for me and 1000's of others. I do know though FB accounts links are being fiddled with for whatever reason by certain people. Maybe it's sabotage from another disgruntled supplier or a secret Muslim Jihad movement trying to take over sports aircraft in Australia for evil purposes we better inform ASIO. OMG get a life. I have checked it out without a problem. The Alban Tafili site has nothing on it. You can't even join it. There is a clitch obviously which FB will more likely fix in due course. It would also appear that in order to look at ELAAA site you need to be registered with FB and if you check it in Google first that seems to be the problem. I'm sure that it will now be rectified in due course as one would assume that it has been reported.

 

 

Obviously, competition has significant advantages for the consumer (though one would have to examine the Banking Sector to form a true picture of just how much advantage there IS to 'the consumer' when 'competition' is in fact nothing more than varnish used to blur the vision of a hegemony).In the case of RAA, you have an intensely technical regime requiring strict performance. Let's be realistic: things like the magazine, (which is frankly pitched at the level of intelligence of an in-flight brochure), and fly-ins ( which can be very, very well-managed by local Flying Clubs) do not need need a multi-$M organisation.

 

However, adherence to the applicable regulations to flying an aircraft in Australia, DOES need a high-level of technical expertise. Neither RAA nor AUF nor SAA have had the opportunity to contribute to the development of the regulations since HORSCOT - and there are very, very few people indeed in this country who have a comprehensive understanding of those regulations. There were two; one died several years ago and the other has responded to being invited to far cough by the owner of a popular Aviation web-site by doing just that.

 

So: let us fantasise for a moment, about an alternative, competitive service to RAA. The actual mechanical processing of such things as registration, is not difficult - but from where does one source the expertise to ensure that the regulatory requirements are being met? You'd need people with experience of the regs. as imposed by CASA and as implemented by RAA.

 

Now, the only people NOT already in RAA who have - ostensibly - some claim to such expertise would be those who are 'on the outer' with RAA at the moment. Not to put too fine a point upon it: Sergeant Runciman's Rejects Ragtime Band - which has briefly (and laughably) put its head above the trenches from a hangar in Bundy, only to demonstrate several times that it retains its unparalleled ability to fail to get anything done because of its ineptitude.

 

Would you place any faith in that mob, to keep you flying legally? The same crew that gave you the mega-colossal registration screw-up? The failure to organise continuation of the Insurance? Membership number falsification? A massive Financial Control FAIL? Give me a break - that would be equivalent to giving Alexander Haigh control of the re-run of the Western Front battle..

 

So far, I have seen no better alternative to RAA as it currently stands to serve my modest flying ambitions. I have an open mind to any realistic alternative, but it will have to be way more realistic and believable than the Bundy Hangar Clown's Co-Opertative.

<Post edited - Mod>

 

This is the problem of having an organization with a membership and no competition, a lot think that they can do better but most only want to pursue their love of aviation so why have a club then, make it a business and the consumer buys the product if they like it and if not then they don't?

 

 

My motto is and has always been in life don't knock those that are prepared to have a go. Don't insult peoples intelligence by making observations that are ill founded, based on nothing more than rumour and innuendo. AND never knock your competition because if you are preoccupied with their errors that's time lost in improving your own product. Your competition is something that you can't do without as it is the measure of your performance in business.

 

 

When Optus refuses, under the protection of ACCC, in your little corner of the world, and the monopoly provider is prevented from offering a service at a fair price what are you going to do? pat yourself on the back and say "fantastic - competition had delivered me bugger all" Competition is not the universal panacea, markets are not perfect and occasional, where orderly markets are thin and the players are disproportionate then a managed monopoly may be the only solution. We live in a society, markets should aid society not destroy it.

That's your view and your entitled to it. Having said that one has to say that it is that type of negativity that has caused the problem that we now suffer from in this country, namely that only a few are prepared to have a go and when they do try to improve a situation they are usually howled down. We will just have to wait and see what the outcome is in due course, won't we.

 

 

Ummmm.! Very interesting Rick-P I just wonder how gandalph will reply to me.A very interesting post. Looks like the beginning of big happenings.

KP

Great things have through history arisen due to competition, it has given people a choice and hopefully kept the different camps honest. It's no different to the choices we make as to which brand motor vehicle we wish to run with. Competition is healthy for the consumer and we should never forget that otherwise to allow a monopoly in any area of consumerism will always only see an increase in the cost of a product with declining services by the provider as we are seeing at this time in the area of sports aviation. Safety is paramount and value for money is essential. Self interested squabbling is not an option or luxury for those at the helm they are there to provide the best possible outcomes for the industry, not for themselves. The days of rubber stamp credentials need to be behind us this is a business and needs to be run and managed as a business in order that the customers of the business get the best service and product available at any given point in time, namely that they get the best bang for their buck without having to worry about politics but just enjoy their flying.

 

 

I do believe there are a great number who have given up caring, they are just hoping things will keep on happening so they can fly.I do hope they do not do silly things.

KP

I do believe there are a great number who have given up caring, they are just hoping things will keep on happening so they can fly.I do hope they do not do silly things.

KP

 

 

Well it is an absolute disaster losing Mark he is one of the most genuine and progressive people I have met in that organization. He listened and he did or tried to do without having his legs chopped out from under him. He is down to earth and always prepared to have a go in getting for the majority what they want and need. He was hell bent on the issue of safety and ensuring that a strong safety culture in the industry was present without it being cost prohibitive to the operators. I have no idea where we will be headed without his input. A very sad day but I must say he obviously had good reason for resigning as I know that he would not have done so unless his reasons for doing so were pressing. It is a very unfortunate situation for all RAA registered aircraft owners as we may find ourselves once again at the mercy of the occupants of, Ivory Tower Pty Ltd.

 

 

Hey does somebody up there in their little white ivory tower realized that they have stuffed up. What I mean is this month, Holy Whiteman Batman, I received a magazine, the first in what, over a year, or more. I haven't read it yet but I suppose there in it will be contained a lot of back patting and subliminal suggestions about the direction of the elections, the new entity and the Board. The ceasing of the hard copy of the magazine being delivered to those who chose not to pay extra that is in the greater scheme of things a relevant fact as one could be forgiven for thinking that it was just a ploy on the part of certain people to treat the majority of members as mushrooms. The first that I heard about the elections and the nominated constituents was a week or two ago. I, as probably many did, relied on the magazine to keep abreast of the goings on as like many when it comes to computers they are used by me as a last resort. Too many people and organizations these days almost demand that everyone be computer literate and buy expensive hardware and programs to keep up with the times, that is their times not ours. It does appear, at least on the surface, that there has been some manoeuvring and misinformation in respect of the constitution and election process which now needs to be carefully scrutinized in attempt arrive at the truth of the matter which will either quell the rumours and angst of some or on the other hand vindicate those who have been protesting hard on these issues.

 

 

Yes kasper it is a mess.. Just imagine the mess if they weren't experts?Not concerning the Ibis issue the freedom of designing and thinking is slowly being removed as well, r.e. the privilege of building and designing.

Regards,

 

KP

Hi Keith I'm back and have returned with vengence.

 

 

 

You are so callous you lot, no one asked about the welfare of the Roo. Maybe you all thought that it was best to skip that issue. Please don't jump on the site now and ask how the Roo is, did you know that it was on holidays at Thangool visiting relatives but now it has had to take it's holidays all over the district, after the prop hit it.

 

 

What does anyone know about the insurance coverage included in our membership?

 

I have heard that the cover is or was only $250,000.

 

That wouldn't even be enough to cover loss of consortium in a death claim.

 

Have we been hoodwinked into believing we are covered when in fact we are not?

 

Does anyone have the answers?

 

 

What does anyone know about the insurance coverage included in our membership?

 

I have heard that the cover is or was only $250,000.

 

That wouldn't even be enough to cover loss of consortium in a death claim.

 

Have we been hoodwinked into believing we are covered when in fact we are not?

 

Does anyone have the answers?

 

 

Bumped into Jill tonight, after another long day ......l

I bet that brought you to a standstill!

 

 

What about the ELAAA?

 

 

I'm sorry people I don't fully agree with you. The only part of the whole investigation thing that is missing is the full and frank reporting to the membership and there are legal reasons why that can't be done. RAAus in general is a trusted advisor to the state police and has a good rapport with each.Don't get hung up on the whole investigation and reporting thing, we know as absolute fact that the vast majority of fatal accidents involve poor human decision making, and far less aircraft malfunction.

 

So focus on decision making and human factors.....if that can be influenced or reduced then the focus will come off the stats.

 

Andy

Andy that is a total crock of shit!

 

RAA are at times a thorn in the side of the police adding nothing to their investigations.

 

Making unsubstantiated statements as to the incident based on nothing more than supposition.

 

Get it right.

 

Don't force me to give some recent examples that could be more than severely embarrassing to the RAA.

 

How about we get some professionalism into the system and really give some serious forensic examination of these fatalities and not some arm chair guess'

 

We need professionalism in respect of our conduct into these incidents and to achieve this we need qualified people educated in the field of accident investigation.

 

In saying this I don't mean people that have done a 5 day course into slip and fall incidents.

 

 

No problems and still going strong!

 

 

YennI think if you start to do a little research on Dick Smith you will find he is not as patriotic as he likes to make out, one such article (published by Steve Creedy) in the Australian Smith suggests that to remain in the airline game QANTAS should move everything it can to China how is this good for Australia and how does it benefit Australian workers and how is that patriotic?

 

Part of my business is manufacturing equipment and I have all our equipment made in Australia might cost me a little more but I'm supporting Australia, I also take my holidays in Australia supporting Australians that's what I call patriotic not just talking about it.

 

Aldo

Qantas want to get their act together and stop being a bunch of money grubbing pigs protrudors.

 

As for taking holidays in Australia that's OK if you don't mind getting ripped off by foreigners but I prefer to go OS and have them do it on their own home ground. :-)

 

 

The picture of the Gyro wasn't taken at Theodore. It was in fact a PPC and he was a friend. looks like it may have been a medical issue.

 

 

Seeing that there is so much dissention on the magazine issue maybe the Board should run another survey and act accordingly, on the results of the fresh survey. The first survey was misleading because it didn't actually give a scenario based on certain results of the survey. For example it didn't say hey guys whether you like it or not we are going to now jam you for an extra $90 if you wish to continue to enjoy a hard copy of the magazine delivered to your front door. This way we backdoor you on a membership increase of $45 because half of the membership will continue to get a hard copy whilst the other half will ride the coat tails of those paying. Just increase the membership, leave us with our hard copy magazine and make all members pay for a membership increase.

 

 

I thought you would be travelling in the surrounding air mass...so no forward speed as such...despite ground speed. Unless the recovery canopy is set up to be steered as in square chutes?

Come on where did 26ft per second come from?

 

That would be a non survival decent.

 

1,560 feet per minute.

 

That is approximately 32 k's per hour or nearly 20 miles per hour.

 

That is very fast to run into a brick wall.

 

The correct survival speed is about 1 metre per second or less if you hit in a certain position, you are saying that the let down rate of a BRS is 26ft per second.

 

Someone tell me am I wrong or right.

 

Nev where are you, please do some sums.