Flying in convoy

[frankmcm]

Can anyone point me towards guidelines / rules / principles to be followed when flying in a group. I am thinking of about 3 or 4 craft with similar cruise capability on a round trip.

 

Issues are things like spatial separation / nomination of single radio controller / handling unexpected events like divert etc.

 

I imagine this has been comprehensively covered somewhere, but cant find anything.

 

 

[Guest 50ft AGL]

I do not have my documents with me at the moment but I'm pretty sure the Civil Aviation Regulations define 'formation flight' as two or more aircraft that navigate as one. So strictly speaking you could not simply play follow the leader with the lead person doing the navigating, unless you all had formation endorsements. I am not sure what procedures are for RAA though as I only fly in G.A at the moment. As for spacing, if I recall correctly the regulations say something along the lines of 'a pilot must not fly his/her aircraft within a distance of another aircraft that presents a danger of collision'. There is no fixed distance and it is left up to the P.I.C to determine a safe seperation from another aircraft. Hope this was at least some help.

 

 

[frankmcm]

Thanks for that 50ft...

 

I am doing my homework for a planned outing, about 4 hours; flying up the Irish coast, crossing to Scotland, returning south and home again. Planned 3 interim landings and a fair bit of open water.

 

With other aircraft in the vicinity, I would probably be more comfortable occupying a prearranged position, maybe "same height but 500metres to the left and behind", or something similar. Anything to minimise risk of airprox. I would be interested in any tried and tested strategies.

 

I dont see this as formation flight, which I thought of as much more formally structured, and probably a much reduced separation.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Frank, you will have to check the regulations that apply in Ireland. In Oz, must not be closer Than 100 feet, but also must not fly in Formation unless all pilots have that endorsement.

 

The definition of FF is quite broad, so each aircraft must fly independently. If relative positions and actions are the same, then it is FF, regardless of separation.

 

This does not stop one aircraft making calls that indicate "flying in company" with n other aircraft, but expected arrival times may be a spread.

 

I participate in such flights every now and then. We use a "company channel" for air to air communication and those with dual com radios also monitor the relevant CTAF or FIA channel. Two pilots have FF so they practice that, but the rest just keep an eye on other members locations and also exchange location info over the "chat channel".

 

 

[facthunter]

Flying in a group.

 

Have done a fair bit of it. It might seem like a good idea but it has a few downsides.

 

1. Looking for each other and communicating on a discreet frequency is distracting and you are NOT monitoring more important frequencies as thoroughly.

 

2.I believe in "one ship, ONE captain. The "Lead" plane, might go some route that you don't like but feel obliged to follow because of the "matey" thing.

 

3 . You clutter up the circuit when you arrive somewhere.

 

This is NOT formation flying but you are flying in close proximity with other aircraft . It is unlawful to fly at a distance that may/ does present a hazard. You have the situation," where is so & so now? can't see him". Extra strain and effort.

 

As far as getting a "bulk" clearance through an area, I would rather arrange my own circumstances, and fly my own aircraft. Nev

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I go "Same way, same day" regularly with 3 to 4 aircraft. Sometimes we are closer to each other than other times. Tend to keep in touch on 123.45 and monitor area. But we rarely try to actually fly as a group or specifically stay close. If we do, usually there is separation in altitude; in my case chopper below me, Cessnas above.

 

With different speeds, we usually simply plan to be at the destination around the same time and depart accordingly.

 

 

[farri]

Hi frankmcm,Regardles of the country you are in, or regulations, it`s not a good idea to just follow each other, especially over unfamiliar terain and long distances.

 

When flying in a group,I believe it is important to remain in visual contact with each other, radios can and do fail and if sight and contact is lost with anyone, there is the real worry that aircraft may have gone down and everyone is left wondering what to do.

 

I would recommend that you individually do what is required to flight plan each leg of your trip,then cross check your plan with each other to make sure it is correct, then in case of seperation and loss of contact with each other, you each should be able to reach your destination safely.

 

Frank.

 

 

[frankmcm]

So I could set off with the following principles;

 

As there is a fair bit of open water I do place some value on remaining within visible contact.

 

Compare notes within the group before takeoff, but individually file a flight plan for each aircraft

 

Ensure that each craft has accurate information about interim and final stops. In case the airfield is difficult to spot I can imagine a mess if several craft were to circle trying to locate an unfamiliar small green strip

 

Least experienced leads, with an understanding that any surprises should be avoided.

 

Other craft maintain a position where they can see ( and be seen?). I can see the advantages of agreeing a different altitude to each craft just in case , maybe 300ft separation vertically?

 

No "follow the leader" in any circumstances.

 

fly as autonomous and independent craft, remaining on the local control frequency. ( I doubt if we have technology to operate a chat channel )

 

If visual contact is lost and there is a risk of airprox, call in a position report, with each craft doing the same in turn.

 

??

 

 

[Tracktop]

Pre-decide where you will fly in relation to the other aircraft, that way everyone knows where to look and expect to find the other aircraft.

 

If they are continually changing sides and height you have to spend a lot more time trying to know where the other aircraft are, rather than concentrating on flying the aircraft.

 

It also makes separation and avoidance safer and easier.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I agree with a lot of the other posters. I was posting from my phone, so kept it short.

 

In the groups I participate with, there is no leader, each pilot is responsible for their own flight plan, although there is collaboration on route, and there can be quite a distance spread between aircraft. On Saturday, it was up to about 10 miles between first and last, primarily due to differing performance and several slightly different tracks.

 

Personally, I would want to know another pilot and their flight skills very well to be comfortable in them approaching to anywhere near 100' and of course as others have mentioned it must also comply with "no hazard" rule. The demands on situational awareness increase exponentially with the inverse of separation.

 

Being able to communicate among the aircraft has upsides as well as being a potential distraction. On Saturday, returning from Holbrook (5 aircraft - 4 trikes with three wing types and a 3-axis) one that was ahead of the others identified a microburst that was difficult to identify head-on, but more easily identified from the side or possibly from being closer to it. This allowed others to adjust course earlier and avoided anyone from simply failing to identify it before getting too close. I now regret not swinging around to bring my camera to bear while passing it at about 3 miles distance, but at least I didn't skim the edge of it, which is where my planned track was taking me, after already adjusting to go between two dying TCUs. From the distance, head-on it just looked like a SHRA!

 

 

[poteroo]

Do Your Formation Endo & then 'Flying in Convoy' becomes Safer and Easier

 

I remember my own early and clumsy attempts to 'convoy' with mates. It never worked well because we were incapable of even the basics of FF. Someone always got lost, or stuffed up contact with ATC, and it was all very rough & ready. ATC hate dealing with gaggles.... look up the term!

 

If you do your FF endo, then you can fly cross country at a 'spread' spacing which keeps you close enough to qualify as FF - but loose enough to look inside occasionally. Having a single radio + TXP leader makes a big difference to your acceptance into CTA.

 

Insofar as not trusting your leaders navigation......... well, in the real world of FF - you DO trust your leader, and that's the reason you never put a 'rookie' up front to lead these convoys... (often the case, so you can see them). Not smart.

 

Summary: get your FF endo - brief & fly FF not gaggle - have a trusted leader - be as professional as possible in radio work.

 

happy days,