RAA Board Member Allegedly In Strife?

[Guest Michael Coates]

Please tell me what facts you want and I will send them through off group, thanks Michael

 

 

[winsor68]

Hi Michael,

 

Here is fine. This was started as an open forum discussion so lets keep it that way...

 

1.

 

Has anyone got any details about a RAA board member who is under a cloud for:

 

Not abiding by the RAA Mission Statement

 

Running his forum in a manner of conflicting interest with RAA guidelines (Mission statement)

 

Editing posts without the real authors knowledge – changing the content to suit his requirements

 

Banning some Australian Aviation Companies off his forum ((Lifetime ban)

 

Banning many Australian members because they disagree with him (Lifetime ban)

 

Banning overseas forum members for disagreeing with him

 

Being a hindrance to the growth of Australian Aviation

 

Please give details of what action the Ra-Aus board has taken about the above... The boards actions and thoughts... not individual members.

 

2. I wonder if that is the same board member that the RAAUS just spent many $$$ on (in legal expenses) to have ejected from the board to no avail?

 

Please give us the facts from the Board on this please.

 

The rest I don't doubt... you are correct in that your name and Rotec are not polite topics "over there".

 

Winsor

 

 

[GAJab]

Number 2 is easy. Just ask the CEO or President for confirmation. Perhaps even ask the individual involved, but good luck getting a response.

 

Either that or if you are a member you can view the financial statements.

 

Nothing listed here is a secret, you just need to know who to ask. Until now, any mention of such events has just been met with banning and attacks on individuals and businesses.

 

Number 1 is a little tricky with the reference to "board" action taken - none to date. Unless you are mates with someone that works there you will get little information as they usually hide under their self made confidentially clauses.

 

Members need to realise that not everything happens at the board level in this organisation. I fear that with the failure of all board members to sign the confidentiality agreement has resulted in them (the board) not being given the ability to make a difference to the organisation as the sensitive issues simply won't make it to the board for fear of the information becoming public in an inappropriate forum.

 

What good is an ineffective board?

 

Everything I've read thus far on this thread I personally believe is true and I have seen the evidence to suggest this on more that one occasion for each instance.

 

 

[R28R36]

... Just because a few grumpy old business owners express an opinion here about what the board may or may not be doing (and none of the above posters are board members as far as I can tell) doesn't make it fact.I suggest we deal with fact and not fantasy... and all of the above is fantasy until proven.

Maybe if you want to get to the bottom of this some research on your part may help before making comments like "a few grumpy old business owners..". There are many individuals banned and I know of at least one from the USA - not many are old and none to my knowledge are grumpy... As for banning aviation companies, one needs to ask how on earth does that promote the Australian aviation Industry...

 

May I humbly suggest you start by examining the RAAus Mission Statement (http://www.raa.asn.au/admin/mission.html) then evaluate how much of the Statement the alleged Board Member actually abides by? His job description would need him to abide by 100% of the ojectives or would it? Trust me its an interesting exercise!

 

 

[Tomo]

Interesting argument indeed...

 

Banning people to some degree limits the free flow in the interchange of ideas and knowledge so vital towards getting a safe outcome in avaiation...

I wouldn't go as far as saying it isn't going to increase the safe outcome of aviation... what does the local police person get if he takes your license off of you for being over the limit etc... does he get a chorus of 'he isn't abiding by the safe practices because he has taken me off the road?'.

 

You could take that the wrong way and get all accusing at me... but you have to take this logically, if you don't abide by the rules (you read when you sign up I think? - it's been a while), the obvious is going to happen. I don't blame him for banning you because trying to taunt him, as one user mentioned here, 'just try it and see', what do you think he's gonna do? doh! (you don't generally hear that from grown men - C'mon, show a bit of respect for a person I would think)

 

I hate politics, and don't really go into all the ins and outs - flying is much more fun I find!

 

But a bit of respect for a fellow person goes a long way I reckon, whether he's doing what 'you' want or not. Taunting someone just for the sake of it is really hard on that someone. Physically and mentally.

 

Using the 'safe outcome' argument isn't really going to work, particularly for a certain company that was at Temora this year, and displayed some pretty poor 'safe' stuff at one point. Maybe just consider all sides before running in to attack?

 

I really don't get involved in the nitty gritty of everything, so wouldn't know the facts - but I was brought up in a home where respect for someone is a high priority - no matter what their position, something I find hard to see in some of these posts I read here.

 

Yours in flying

 

Tom

 

 

[moto]

Good Morning Tomo.

 

I was going to reply about the 'grumpy old man' thing and the fact that I was banned for attempting to answer a posters technical query as it was within my area of expertise, but made the mistake of using a blacklisted product name. How ****** impertinent and childish.... As for being a disgruntled businessman, then I'm in the clear as I was acting as an experienced Level 2 with free advice.

 

No, what got me going this morning was your comment about 'taunting'. Please realise that it was not my intention that anyone post a query simply to provoke a reaction. I merely wished to point out that anyone following the thread that thought we were making this stuff up only had to try it for themselves. So you are on the wrong tram here - none of us were banned for 'taunting' - simply for trying to assist fellow members and this guy took it upon himself to deny us and other members the benefit of our experience. If you are talking about respect, then who is the one showing disrespect ?

 

As for signing up by the rules, show me where it says anything about this sort of selective censorship. And yes, I have had a posting where a whole paragraph was deleted without my knowledge. If he had of written back and said the whole piece was not acceptable then fair enough, but you can lose the whole point, or worse, by posting half the story. As a former professional journalist, I find this unacceptable.

 

Last, but not least, you seem like a nice young fellow with legitimate concerns about our hobby. It is great to getter younger people involved and take an interest, and you don't have to agree with us to be accepted. But mostly we are a bunch of grumpy old men with considerable experience in the industry, and a former Board member in my case, and don't like being treated with disrespect by the guy in question.

 

BTW, are you going to Archer Falls this weekend ? If so, maybe we can catch up.....

 

Interesting argument indeed...

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying it isn't going to increase the safe outcome of aviation... what does the local police person get if he takes your license off of you for being over the limit etc... does he get a chorus of 'he isn't abiding by the safe practices because he has taken me off the road?'.

 

You could take that the wrong way and get all accusing at me... but you have to take this logically, if you don't abide by the rules (you read when you sign up I think? - it's been a while), the obvious is going to happen. I don't blame him for banning you because trying to taunt him, as one user mentioned here, 'just try it and see', what do you think he's gonna do? doh! (you don't generally hear that from grown men - C'mon, show a bit of respect for a person I would think)

 

I hate politics, and don't really go into all the ins and outs - flying is much more fun I find!

 

But a bit of respect for a fellow person goes a long way I reckon, whether he's doing what 'you' want or not. Taunting someone just for the sake of it is really hard on that someone. Physically and mentally.

 

Using the 'safe outcome' argument isn't really going to work, particularly for a certain company that was at Temora this year, and displayed some pretty poor 'safe' stuff at one point. Maybe just consider all sides before running in to attack?

 

I really don't get involved in the nitty gritty of everything, so wouldn't know the facts - but I was brought up in a home where respect for someone is a high priority - no matter what their position, something I find hard to see in some of these posts I read here.

 

Yours in flying

 

Tom

[GAJab]

Oh Tomo, ignorance can be such a useful thing when it suits you.

 

This thread is not an "argument" as you put it. It is a compilation of facts from affected individuals and businesses. A little bit of research on your behalf would go a long way before suggesting that any of this is untrue. If any affected individual feels that the information provided here is incorrect, they are welcome to post although this website is likely to not allow certain individuals to log in as this may be one of those affected!

 

To put your mind at rest just do a business name lookup on The Aussie Aviator Pty Ltd.

 

After you have done that search, look at the link provided earlier with the raaus mission statement and tell me if you see a misalignment?

 

 

[GAJab]

Using the 'safe outcome' argument isn't really going to work, particularly for a certain company that was at Temora this year, and displayed some pretty poor 'safe' stuff at one point. Maybe just consider all sides before running in to attack?

Is this relevant a all?

 

 

[Tomo]

Is this relevant at all?

Only for the persons concerned I guess.

 

Personally I don't care two hoots whether this 'person who owns the other forum' is what you all claim him to be. He has a good resource (jolly good site if you ask me), he has been running it from his own pocket, and it has helped more people than one - I can tell you first hand. Infact I wouldn't even be RAA if it wasn't for that site. (not that I'm much use to the RAA contingent)

 

What makes a good place is the members, the discipline (even if it hurts), and the man behind the wheel.

 

I take it some people have really got on the nerve of him, it's his site, he can do what he wants I guess, not like you're paying for it. If you seem affiliated with those persons I guess that's the end of you.

 

Facts are most useful, and I'm willing to see them - but be sure they're facts and not just personal opinions. (goes for everything in life)

 

====

 

Moto, not sure yet, I'm dedicated to Oakey at the moment, but may pop over the hill if I get the time.

 

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

Extracted from ASIC's database at AEST 09:40:26 on 30/09/2010

 

Name THE AUSSIE AVIATOR PTY. LTD.

 

ACN 133 144 546

 

Type Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares

 

Registration Date 08/09/2008

 

Next Review Date 08/09/2011

 

Status Registered

 

Locality of Registered Office Watsonia VIC 3087

 

Jurisdiction Australian Securities & Investments Commission

 

 

[GAJab]

Thanks MC. There's a fact for you Tomo.

 

Now Tomo, have a think to yourself now.

 

Why would anyone other than the owner of this website register the above-named company?

 

(note that the company name was registered long after this website was registered)

 

Now that you have had a moment to ponder that, tell me how the registration of that particular business name matches the mission statement of the raaus and for the duties of the board member to promote aviation in general?

 

 

[Guest Chainsaw]

Note:

 

THE AUSSIE AVIATOR PTY. LTD has ZERO connection with this TAA Forum or it's owner. That company name was registered for purposes unknown.

 

As far as this discussion is concerned, it may be time to move on guys. Let's talk about flying.

 

 

[R28R36]

Interesting argument indeed...

 

 

I wouldn't go as far as saying it isn't going to increase the safe outcome of aviation... what does the local police person get if he takes your license off of you for being over the limit etc... does he get a chorus of 'he isn't abiding by the safe practices because he has taken me off the road?'.

On the safety issue you miss the point completely - taking my licence away for speeding is just because my continued speeding might eventually hurt or kill some-one.

 

The point being made is the exact opposite. Consider: If a person building an aircraft and is making a fundamental structural error that will result in an unsafe aircraft which could/would be involved in an incident/accident and the very person who could correct mistake is banned ... that's the type of "unsafe" outcome I'm referring to ...etc

 

This situation has occurred, to a degree, to moto where he was banned from imparting information to a fellow member for him having the temerity in mentioning a brand within his post!...

 

Think about it and evaluate in your mind what the correct position is.

 

Once more I suggest you having a look at the RAAus Mission Statement (http://www.raa.asn.au/admin/mission.html) because its your responsibility to follow the guidelines. The statement is not political its a set of principles that all members need to aspire to. You would expect Board Member to be the first to align their behaviour towards meeting all the objectives contained in this statement.

 

 

[Guest Michael Coates]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

 

From: Ian <[email protected]>

 

Date: 2009/5/26

 

Subject: Your Australian Representative

 

To: [email protected]

 

Hi

 

I am writing to let you know that I have prevented at least 6 sales of X-Air aircraft that I am

 

aware of here in Australia and will continue to do so whilst Michael Coates represents you and

 

your aircraft here.

 

I own and manage the largest recreational aviation website in Oceania currently with a

 

membership of over 4,000 recreational pilots and thousands more coming to the site everysingle day and where Coates is permanently banned from. He has attempted to blackmail,

 

sent disgusting emails to my family, used third party people to send emails, lied and deceived

 

many people and much more to the point that the police were called in. He has recently

 

received notification from the governing body here in Australia that his flying privileges are

 

going to be taken away from him due to the Coroners Report on the death of two pilots and his

 

lies and deceit which I am sure you have been advised of.

 

You may wish to read about some of the things he does to people at:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com.au/forum/site-news/29096-admin-has-left-building.html

 

and note that this information is in full view to the public all around the world.

 

With the many International users now coming to the http://www.recreationalflying.com.au site it has

 

been decided to now open the site up all around the world and it is unfortunate that whenever

 

X-Air is mentioned on the site it is met with links to Coates’s illegal activities. This is definitely

 

poisoning the X-Air name. Once Coates is removed from representing X-Air then I will gladly

 

create an X-Air section on the high traffic Recreational Flying site – the site receives over 5

 

million hits a month. When that time comes please let me know so I can create the X-Air

 

section on the site which will promote your aircraft all around the world.

 

Regards

 

Ian Baker

 

Recreational Flying

 

Phone: +613 9444-8025

 

Mobile: 0425-702-333

 

Email: [email protected]

 

Web: http://www.recreationalflying.com.au

 

It is really unfortunate that this is only a sample of the things done by the alleged person. The RAA has been advised about this conduct many times but has failed to do anything whatsoever.

 

How is this behavior promoting aviation and in full compliance with the RAA mission statement. Not one board member has made contact with me for further information about this claim and many others alleged by the said person.

 

What is not said in his e-mail is that the police fully investigated his claims against both myself and several other people that were allegedly harassing and blackmailing the said party and could not once prove or justify his claims.

 

CASA have completed a full investigation into all the matters raised in the coroner's inquest and could not substantiate one single allegation, they concluded after their six-month investigation that not one offense was committed, not one allegation could be upheld and most importantly there was no link whatsoever between myself, my company or anything else with the accident which unfortunately claimed the lives of two of our customers.

 

The said individual has caused countless thousands of dollars damage to my business even by his own admissions he has stopped the sale of at least six aircraft! How is that promoting aviation in Australia.

 

The RAA board and executive have not taken any action whatsoever against the said individual and in my opinion and in the opinion of many in the legal profession this is showing a complete lack of responsibility in running the RAA. He should be removed from our organisation and industry just like he has tried to do to myself ! There are several other major aviation businesses which have also been affected by the said person including several which have never even made contact with him.

 

This is just one example of this behavior, there are hundreds of other examples exactly the same. Members, you need to pressure the RAA to take action.

 

 

[R28R36]

Only for the persons concerned I guess.... it's his site, he can do what he wants I guess, not like you're paying for it.

True! But does that mean in doing anything he likes on his forum, totally excuse him from following the RAAus Mission Statement? In my mind it’s one or the other...

 

There is an alleged conflict of interest between his function as a Forum owner and the position of being a Board Member. The added conflict is that it’s alleged that he uses the site for personal gain etc Could it be in recent news about attempting to distance himself from his forum that the penny has dropped?

 

 

[moto]

Well, I'm pretty much done on the subject, at least for the moment. But you would have to question why anyone would register the company name of a rival. He tried doing with Australian Flying and got his ass kicked, but then, little that this guy does makes any sense to me. It is sad that his website is otherwise good.

 

Hope to catch up with a few of you at Archer Falls this weekend.

 

Note:THE AUSSIE AVIATOR PTY. LTD has ZERO connection with this TAA Forum or it's owner. That company name was registered for purposes unknown.

 

As far as this discussion is concerned, it may be time to move on guys. Let's talk about flying.

[Guest Chainsaw]

But you would have to question why anyone would register the company name of a rival.

No comment.

 

Thanks for all your contributions. I think it's time to move on - thread is now closed.