Guest MundooTriker Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Hello Paul from South Africa, I was looking at the AeroTrike on the net last night and they seem pretty impressive for the price and so do Aquilla. I tried to see the price of the the Aquilla HKS but couldn't find it on the website. I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your trike. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZULU1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Mundoo Triker Hiya, I am going in to Pinetown later today and will go to the factory and get some prices for you. In South Africa the Windlass and Aquilla by Solo Wings are the most popular, very much as Airborne is in Australia. Depending on the area you live in. The Aerotrikes which were designed by Mike Blyth have just started back in production after a few years, the manufacturers were making a three axis called a Cheetah (Rainbow Aircraft). Another trike called the Raptor (really tough) is also made here and we are now getting derivatives of the Quik (made in jhb. by Jenya) with topless wings. As well as derivatives of the basic Windlass. I fly a Aquilla for the main reason that its tough, designed for the Bush and has the most comfortable seats on any trike I have flown. They do come with pods but not popular. Over 1,100 trikes made now, Aiden the designer (French Mauritian) has been a hang glider pilot for many years. They come with the 503, 582, 912 series and the HKS. Thye have also been made with some Simonini engines. I think the price in SA is about R165K for a 582 with the Aquilla 2 wing , but will confirm. There are a few in Australia/NZ and also Thailand. Ciao Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Hello Paul, I've been researching those South African trikes. I've gone from a mild curiosity to scheming how to get one!!, especially the Aquilla or Aerotrike. Seems like great value for the price in Aust $. I wish there were a few more here for me to check out. I have always found it difficult to purchase stuff I haven't actually seen. For interests sake do you have a website for the Quik derivative. And what is your opinion of the HKS so far. Most Australian 4strokers are 912. Thanks Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZULU1 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Hiya South Africa is not unlike Australia in terms of climate and conditions, we have the wealthy Johannesburg/ Pretoria (Gauteng) regions with trikers that demand the Quiks, Airbornes , Air Creations and so on. Jhb is 6,000 ft before you take off so in summer you need some serious power just to get airborne. Hence we have a influx of 100hp Rotaxes and 582s. The two strokes are OK as they dont lose as much power as four stroke motors. These pilots travel great distances as its flat and pleasant to fly in the early mornings with many good airstrips around. Outside of Gauteng its either the coastal regions or bush and farm trikers. These planes are used for rugged terrain and game spotting and so on. As a result they dont travel as fast as the European imports and have a very tough undercart that takes a serious punishing in our conditions. I may add that the Aviate Raptor is made for Military surveillance work fitted with hf radios and a 914s painted olive drab and a huge wing that allows it to almost hover. It has massive Cessna 6 inch wheels on it !! and is a single seater. I have the Solo wings Aquilla 2 wing and a standard airframe which I modified myself to take the HKS (now a factory option). The HKS was initially a poor motor but after some factory developments has come right. There were three in the SA team at the worlds last week and a Raptor/HKS came second with Marc Gregson in the dual weight shift class. I have nothing but praise for mine, we did a series of thrust tests at Solo wings when assembled, it is exactly half way between the 503 and 582. We have a SA made prop which we have proven to be more effective than the Warp drive by about 10 % and this is what Marc used. It was designed by one of our trike pilots that works with our aerospace industry. It doesnt work well with the 912 series as it was aimed at the 582 / HKS motors. After 300 hrs I am now fuel injecting my motor for various reasons, I live on the coast and regularly fly inland so I need some extra power without the weight of a 912. They are really heavy on the beach and in soft sand. All SA trikes have the wide tyre options. Aerotrikes have very nice wings and were originally made in the Ukraine, they export many to the USA. With the exception of the DTA, I would imagine that the Raptor is possibly the toughest trike on the market available.. The Aquilla is tough and the Aerotrike Cobra is very nice. There are a few in Australia around Perth I believe ?? Take a look at our local forum for a detailed daily look at our microlight forum, not all in English but you will get the drift !! www.microlighters.co.za it can be very informative. Maybe register and you will get immediate replies, there are many Australians on the forum. The forum like this one is very helpful. Cheers Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Once I tried to encourage Airborne to look into making the HKS700 available on some of their trike models which I personally think would be a great idea for any of their models except the Streak-3 wing, but they didn't seem to interested and seemd to fixate on the problems with the earlier HKS engines. It'd be great with the Wizard, Cruze and Streak-2 wing combinations, providing the fuel economy of a 4 stroke without quite the same expense as a 912. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 One thing I've learned talking to Paul is that unlike Australia they are spoilt for choice in South Africa. Aquilla, Aerotrike and Raptor all apparently provide the HKS700 option. They also get impressive performance out of the 503. Aquilla & Aerotrike are very easy on the eye. If the currency converter is right you can get a 912 and have a lot of change out of $60k The forsale section of www.microlighters.co.za is like a smorgasbord! I do wish that Airborne provided the HKS or at least a faster practical wing option for their 503. I heard a rumor some time ago about a Cruze on a Redback (direct from an Airborne employee) but I've checked twice since then and get a flat answer- no. I have really enjoyed checking out other trikes of the world. PS. I also learned "jhb" is a place, not a trike. Thanks Paul for getting me started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Folks, I can also agree with all the comments that in South Africa you can get practically anything in terms of trikes - in addition to the locally manufactured trikes, you can also get access to all the European Trikes at reasonable prices. There is a growing market of secondhand Pegasus Quiks and GT450s at really competitive prices. When searching and settling on the DTA, we were very keen on the Aerotrike Cobra and the Aquila except at the time availability of the Cobra was limited and the Aquila was not offered with a 912 powerplant. The Aquila trikes are excellent and really tough - I have compared them with the Pegasus in Pretoria and found the Aquila to be of more robust build. These trikes are well worth a second look on price and quality and their wing manufacture is excellent as well. The triking fraternity in South Africa I have found to be by far and away more adventurous than what we have here in Oz and on a good weekend the guys get double figures in fly aways for weekends. They truly have a very active community and more active than I have experienced before. A nice touch as well is that in Southern Africa they have not become racked with red tape so you will not get locked up for landing next to a fuel bowser and taxying to the pump to fill up enroute - The community seem quite flattered with the odd aerial visitor and are quite willing to assist. Regards Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crezzi Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I suspect part of the price advantage of overseas trikes from some countries is that the manufacturers haven't had to put the planes through the same level of certification as (for example) Aussi or British trikes have to go through. The costs of doing the approval testing must be significant for such relatively low production volumes. Of course, not being being tested doesn't necessarily mean they aren't as safe but there are definately some popular overseas models which I know wouldn't pass the UK BCAR Section S standard. Although there seem to be a few clusters in Aus where there is a lot of activity, I can only agree with the previous positive comments re the triking community in RSA. Ironically, although they might have less redtape, I did get "detained" there for exactly what you described Perry - something which never happened to me in the generally much more regulated flying environment of Europe. Cheers John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZULU1 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Trike costs Chaps, I don't think that our testing is any less than the rest of the world, as we have some pretty evil regs regarding engine types/tbos at the moment..you may read part 24 (another thread another day). However our manufacturing costs are considerably less than Europe. As an example we build MRFs (Material Recovery Facilities), conveyor's, electronics, motors gearboxes etc. for the UK here in Durban and land them in the UK in many containers to the same brand motors etc. and spec as the UK / Europe with duties, shipping etc. and it still works out at half price !! Our manufacturing industries, although we think are loaded with bureaucracy and most definitely not sweat shops are not loaded up with costs. Maybe thats the reason ?? (without export concessions I may add as thats bureaucracy!) I may also add that BMW, Mbenz and the like have large test and manufacturing facilities here for similar reasons. Plus our exchange rate has just gone down the tubes !! Our fuel is much cheaper though.. Safe flying Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I see that the Raptor trike is currently undergoing British certification. Very few trike manufacturers seem go to this effort. Perry, did you look into how much red tape was involved in getting a trike from South Africa registered in Australia? I have a suspicion that beaucracy may cost nearly as much as the trike. I have emailed the HGFA for a list of registrable trikes and also did the same to CASA, so see what happens. I think I'm getting a bad case of a new trike bug. Hope its not too contagious. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 I just got a quote from Aquilla in Sth Africa. Aus$ 29000 delivered to Brisbane. 4 stroke HKS. Cruise 50-54kts. Fuel consumption is alledgely less than 10 lph. I checked with the HGFA that Aqulla can be registered here. My main concern is maintaining the HKS which doesn't have a local distributor (although I'm probably nearly as close to Japan as Melbourne). Seems like an attractive option to me. It may not be quite in the same category as XT912, but a serious contender for the Outback/Classic. Not to mention the price of course. If any fellow Australian trike flyers have sage words of wisdom or caution they would be appreciated. Even if you think it is a risky idea I'm only researching at this stage. Regards Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Seems too good to be true. Does that price include the wing? The reason I ask is that a lot of trike manufacturers price the wing separately. My 912 gets 9 L/hr (Measured, not the fuel flow meter which reads 6 L/hr) if I slow it down to 55kts and the HKS has fewer moving parts inside, so should be able to drink less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Thanks for the tip. I think it does but just requested confirmation. The price seems consistent with 2nd hand prices advertised over there. I'm pretty impressed with the quote. I'm getting a bit keen. If these guys advertised in Australia I think they would attract significant interest. I've also found a HKS service manager in Australia. Check the specs (HKS doesn't get mention but the climb is the same as the 503 option) http://www.solowings.com/products/ I'm still investigating, but I think I'll be hunting for a buyer for the Redback:) Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vk3auu Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Just make sure that you check the octane rating of the fuel required and run it accordingly. Also make sure that it is one of the latest versions of the HK700, the early ones were a bit sus. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Guyver Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 When I emigrated from South Africa I brought my Aquilla with me. When I needed spares, they were airfreighted and received in around 10 days. The Aquilla team do give very good service. I have since upgraded to an Airborne XT912 Streak3 with 300 hours on the clock in a year:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Hello David, Aquilla have confirmed it is the newer version. They haven't had to do any major work on them at all. I also heard from Sadler Vampire aircraft who use them in their aircraft and provide Australian support. They haven't had to do any major work either. The motor seems very popular overseas. Pegasus and Aircreation now offer the option. Aquilla confirmed that the quote includes the Aquilla II wing. They also provided some referrals for me to check out. - I've been busy. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 At that price with an HKS, AUD 29k delivered to your nearest capital city, it looks like a definite threat to Airborne's market share here in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted September 10, 2007 Share Posted September 10, 2007 Andrew, I have been off for a while hence the silence. At AUD29K it is a winner. The Aquila is a niece piece of kit and the HKS would be fine at sea level. Paul is working on a supercharger mod for the engine that would get you up to similar horsepower as the 912. You may be able to get a sniff of this shortly. As for the base - excellent rugged gear that is well supported. Go for it! Regards Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Perry, I might have hit a few snags. Apparently GST still applies and I have to work out how to get it out of customs and from Brisbane to Innisfail. That might add another $4-5k to the price. Probably still a good deal but makes me a bit nervous. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Hi Mundoo, isn't Cairns an international airport with customs facilities? If you can get it delivered there, even via Brisbane that should help with your logistics of collecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perry Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Andrew, From my experience of when my trike was imported, here are the costs that you will incur: 1. Trike cost less 14% VAT for South Africa (as it is being exported) 2. Airfreight - go for air as this incurs less damage. The wing is best inserted into a poly pipe - Aquila will advise. This will be in the region of $5k. 3. Freight handling - it is better to get a professional freight handler for the unit - this is less than $1k including your customs inspection/fumigation. 4. 10% GST on the above. 5. Road Freight from either Sydney (as most airfreight is cleared here) or from Brisbane. This only costs approx. $1k. It may be cheaper to collect yourself as I found the greatest likelihood of damage is here - the ozzies are hard on anything in a box! Other considerations - the fuel tank needs to be empty and flushed of all signs of fuel and there must be no sign of grass on the frame/wheels - big no no. It is preferable to have a steel framed crate with composite or ally sides. Wooden crates are a problem and get issues regarding fumigation. I am still convinced you will get the trike in at a really affordable rate. Hope this helps. Regards Perry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Guyver Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Aquilla would have quoted an export price with no VATof 14% so I am sure the price quoted would be CIF or C&F clearing and GST in Oz would have to be added:sad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MundooTriker Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 I don't know what CIF or C&F means, but the extra GST is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZULU1 Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 Shipping Ask Denise for a few prices, she probably advised a FOB price (free on board) which means that you arrange your own shipping, import permits, clearing etc. to where your point of arrival is from collection point Pinetown, Durban, RSA. I ship regularly to the UK and we pay here in SA (CandF) to a final destination. Either way you will require a clearing agent that side. Its really easy to do, just find the most economical point of arrival. Maybe the forum has a shipping agent ?? Henneways are very good and the prices are pretty much the same with shipping, the clearing costs can vary drastically..You can most probably structure it that you pay one agent everything GST, port charges, land charges, BOL fees etc. No rocket science..I would certainly get a few quotes (ask in Excel format so you can review exchange rate costs). Good Luck Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc Guyver Posted September 15, 2007 Share Posted September 15, 2007 CIF= Cost + Insurance + Freight C&F= Cost + Freight With both you would have to do your own clearing but shipping costs are included in the price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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