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Have RAAus implemented the new requirement of 20hrs for the Cross Country Endorsement Yet ? My CFI says they have, but anther guy says no. At $135.00 p/h I,m not too keen to part with that large lump of hard earned. I realise that its money well spent and all.i_dunno



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Guest airsick

Firstly, the new ops manual hasn't been sent out yet (or at least hasn't been received by me yet :)) and until this happens it isn't active - think about it, how can you comply with something you haven't seen! Having said this, as far as I know it is as good as in the mail so it will no doubt land in our letterboxes in the coming days. I am not sure if there will be a grace period but I am sure this will be made clear when we receive it.


Secondly, whoever told you that there is a 20 hour requirement coming has either misunderstood the new manual or is trying to take you for a ride (I will leave it up to you to determine which is the case). I saved a copy of the new manual when it was put online for a short period a few weeks back and this is what it says:


Have completed a minimum of 10 hours cross country navigation flight training and accumulated a minimum of 2 hours solo cross country navigation experience.


Nothing about 20 hours anywhere.


In my view it is a good idea to increase the minimum requirements. Back in the 'old' days when a lot of people were flying machines that cruised around at 50 kts it was easy to stay ahead of the plane and not get lost. With more people flying faster machines (or at least being licensed to do so) a bit more focus on navigation won't go astray. It is a lot easier to get behind the aircraft now and a 5 degree error can turn into 10 miles off track a lot quicker too!


An interesting point that someone else may be able to clear up. When doing a PPL all solos are considered as training flights so you can't take passengers etc. Thus my interpretation of the manual is that you have to do 10 hours which may include your 2 hours solo time. Anyone else care to comment on this?



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Guest brentc

10 hours is much more realistic that it was and for most people it was taking that long anyway. Increasing it on paper will help to avoid disappointment later.



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Hi All


Airsick is right. First the new ops manual has to be sent out, then there will be a period of time for all pilots to become familiar with it. Then the Ops Mgr. at his discretion, will declare a date of activation.




John McKeown



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Guest J430



At 135/hr you are doing well!


A C172 could cost you almost twice that!


Never complain about more training requirements. I do not believe there are enough to begin with.


I do a BFR each year one RAA and one GA, and I love it. Its not because I only do 20-50 hours a year either, I do about 150 PA. BFR's and training make you sharper and safer. Any bugs shoud be exterminated often!




PS your instructor probably needs the revenue!



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  • 2 weeks later...

Couldn't agree with you more airsick. Around my neck of the woods with a number of civil and military control zones and restricted areas even 5 hours in a Drifter is a bit of an ask. I always tell my students to plan on 7 and hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Like you said, 10 miles TE can occur at lot faster at 100kts.


Subject to production etc, I believe that the ops/tech disk should be coming out with the July magazine for an August implementation. A great deal of this work is being carried out by Lynn, the SA rep, and I for one would like to publicly thank him for putting in a sterling effort and volunteering so much of his time in an effort to keep costs down.





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The bottomline from http://www.ragandtubeaviator.blogspot.com/




Tuesday, May 13, 2008


Ops. Manual Update


Hi All,




The new Ops. manual is now at CD proof read stage, and all going well CD's will be burned and sent out with the July Magazine.




Mick Poole has declared August 1st as the implementation date baring unforeseen problems.




There will be a realistic "Grandfather" period for people who have been training under the old Ops. manual. (eg the new cross country increase from 5 to 10 hours.)




John McK


Posted by John McKeown at 13:22


South Queensland RA-Aus Board member



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Is it really harder to navigate at the higher speeds. Bear in mind that the wind affects slower aircraft more than fast ones. I can remember flying into a 25kt headwind in a Thruster and not knowing if I would be able to complete the journey or would have to turn round.


You may be able to work out what could happen.


Distance to travel 63 nm. Headwind approx 25 kts, fuel available 40l at 16l/hr.


I reckon I could have been within visual distance of my destination and still had to turn back to avoid an outlanding. Now is that a harder nav problem than doing it in a 100 kt plane?



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  • 1 month later...



what is the formula for a PNR (point of no return)?


63nm , thruster Tas? 55kts - 25kts hw = 30kts gs, or .5nm/min whole trip = 126 mins


fuel 40l @ 16l/hour = 150mins endurance!


Was the 25kt hw forecast or was it encountered whilst airbourne?


If forecast you would have planned a refueling stop, if encountered whilst airbourne, you are allowed to use your fixed reserve of 45mins, you would have had 24mins up your sleeve.


Hope it wasn't all cross wind when you got there!


Have I read your post correctly? and have we managed to figure it out?


Cheers Guy



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