Guest pete Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 :wave:Hello all, Just discovered this site yesterday, and have already had one mystery solved. [to slat or not to slat, re savannah]. I am at this stage a wanna be flyer at yeppoon .and have dozens of other mysteries to solve. The idea of independent & different opinions available on forum appeals to me. One of my perceived requirements at this stage is probably stol performance for bush fields and probably beaches. Can any body fill me in with some opinions on pros and cons of tail draggers verses nose wheel for above requirements. Cheers, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Personally I'd say taildragger. There's no nosewheel to dig in or collapse in rough or soft conditions. I think you'll find many traditional STOL aircraft are taildraggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marius Grobler Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I heard tail draggers are hard to land. Is this true? Brand newbie asking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Well yes, they are harder (and some are quite a bit harder than others) but they make you a better pilot! If people start out on taildraggers it takes about the same length of time to go solo as newbie nosewheel pilots, so don't worry too much about it. Remember plenty of people learnt to fly in taildraggers before nosewheel aircraft even existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Welcome Pete. There are a few flyers around the Yeppoon area, mostly flying taildraggers. Where will you be flying out of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Thanks Ian, I am actually not flying at all yet very early stages,I know one tail dragger in Yeppoon and see him from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Thanks Mazda, probably not the news I was hoping to hear, I am beginning to like the Savannah, any thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Macnoz Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 The Savannah is a rather amazing machine. Watching them STOL yesterday again in Gatton in nil wind conditions reminded me of just how usefull they are. If you only have little ground to cover in flight and little ground to get into and out of flight then they take beating. As a by the way there is a near completed one for sale in Cairns (deceased estate). Has been in "tradingpost.com.au" now for a long time. Looks like a bargain to me. No I am not associated with sale. Given you location I presume you will be at the Goodwin field fly in in June. There will be a contingent of craft of all types coming from my home at YCAB. Come over and say hello to Jab 4824 john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palexxxx Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Hi Peter, If you are looking at STOL aircraft then perhaps you could have a look at the Zenith CH 701. The STOL performance is really amazing but one of the downsides is that it is not a quick aircraft. The standard setup is tricycle gear but there is a taildragger option which they don't really recommend. Have a look at the following link to see why. http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-design-gear.html Here is a link to their homepage which has all the info that you need plus some mighty impressive videos. http://www.zenithair.com/ Hope this helps. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If you want to buy a full on video of the CH701 in action - http://www.stol-adventures.com/ I've got vol 1, Canyon Surfing - not bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybum Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Pete, unless the taildragger or more correctly CONVENTIONAL undercarriage aircraft has a very short coupling like an S1 Pitts or any of the shorter aerobats, they are no harder to fly than a trike undercarriage aircraft. Like all aircraft they have unique handling characteristics, if anything because of the old saying you keep flying a taildragger all the way to the tiedowns should be the same for a trike undercarriage aircraft. The reason the likes of the Pitts is "interesting" is because it is so short it doesn't take too much inattention to result in a groundloop or at least lots of excursions across the runway to try and catch up again. Now, a good pilot displays good airmanship and is ALWAYS ahead of the aircraft and will allways use the correct technique in any wind conditions to result is a smooth controlled takeoff or landing. Seriously, Pete, learning on a conventional will make you a far better pilot.:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOSGcentral Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Hi Pete, If you want to go STOL and off-airfield then you MUST train on a taildragger! As Mazda says they are more 'difficult' but this is only to existing pilots converting to them. If you know no better when starting then you just get on with it and get through in about the same time. The important part to consider is that if you want to go off-airfield (STOL or otherwise) then it is not a question of IF you break the nosewheel off but WHEN! That will usually ding the prop and engine as well. if you are in an tractor aircraft with the engine up front. Futhermore, if you train on a taildragger then you get a full certificate and can fly nosewheels automatically. The reverse is not true and you will find that you are setting yourself up later for at least five hours more training to get the nosewheel restriction lifted. It is no co-incidence that the really rough territory Ag Pilots and Bush Pilots are in taildraggers. They do it hard enough without inviting more expense to what they do. Just some thoughts Aye Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastmeg2 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Sounds like good advice. When I get around to doing my 3 axis conversion, the sapphire is very high on my list and happens to be a taildragger. Can anyone advise how well suited a Sapphire would be to a 450m private dirt strip? Rgds, Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOSGcentral Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 LOL! Yup it will fit but a bit of advice (I have not flown a Saph but seen them operated enough and have plenty time on far slippery machines). The Saph is more of a powered glider than an ultralight - which is where all the performance comes from. But it does not have glider airbrakes so can take a lot of space if the approach energy is too high (read long float and possibility of PIOs into that). I would strongly suggest that you take a couple of trips in a glider (at least ASK13 level - you do not need the plastic sleds but may not be able to avoid them these days) and get the feel of the very light fore and aft controls and protracted floating near the ground. When you have your Saph fly it from a long runway until you have the entire approach, float and landing sequence ironed out to the space you have at home. Aye Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks John, The only aircraft I could find partly built in Cairns is a CH701, Is this the one you are thinking of. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Advice sounds good to me Sky bum &TOSGcentral it has crossed my mind to train on a taildragger and it has answered my next question. goodone, . regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingphot Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Pete I have some insight into your problem. I trained on, in order, Thruster, Lightwing, and Drifter and then flew Tyro and Skydart - all tail draggers. A few years ago I purchased a Flightstar II, my first Nose wheel aircraft, in which I did some 300hrs, and a lot of dirt track and beach operations. Never had a problem. Since then I have built and operated a classic Savannah and currently own my second Savvy - the VG model. They are designed and built for off tarmac operations and I can assure you I would much rather go into a short STOL landing area in a Savannah than in any of the much slower taildraggers I have flown. I'm not saying the nosewheel aircraft lands shorter or better but if I don't have the numbers precisely right the taidragger will bite much harder than the nosewheel job. If you are going to Goodwin in June I should be there in the Savannah with the big yellow tick (19-4854) and would be happy to talk and take you for a ride. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 Hello Bill, Aha,news that I had a slight suspicion I might have heard somewhere along the line, I have seen videos of savannahs & ch 701 landiing like taildraggers and putting the nose down at the last minute. Does this make sence? I do not have any problem about training in a tail dragger as I am a total newbie and am getting the impression this is probably the way to go. I will be at Goodwin in June for a look and will definitely say hello to you and John in Jab 4824 Thanks Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 pete the flysynthesis storch that i fly can be landed with no nose wheel :hittinghead:neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 What do you mean by "putting the nose down at the last minute" It should be held up even in a tricycle aircraft. Gives the slowest landing speed and protects the nose wheel and leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pete Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Ian , thanks I am learning fast ,I think. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Macnoz Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 Pete yes that is the one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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