spenaroo

On 05/05/2024 at 5:22 AM, Jerry_Atrick said:

One hopes this is inaccurate... Otherwise it is an admission that the company hd no idea, and no control over its finances. After all, the lease contract will not normally allow a reposession unless a) the company is in default, or sometimes, it it is deemed a risky lease, the lessor has a rasonable belief that the lessee will default imminently, or c) not maintaining covenants such as a minimum share price, or maintenance or something similar. It would be alarming if the directors of the company were not expecting reposession proceedings were being initiated, as the directors would normally be informed of such proceedigs. and the reason why.

have a read...

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport/bonza-s-backers-plotted-to-get-the-planes-out-and-wind-this-up-20240506-p5fp87

sounds like the plans with the parent company were different to what was being told to Bonza.
bit like GM shutting down Holden having been planned for months - but management being told the week before that all was well.

fair enough, with moving the motorcycle talk off this thread

 

I have resurrected the bike thread

 

https://www.socialaustralia.com.au/topic/1202-the-bike-shed/page/4/

14 hours ago, Markdun said:

Interesting. My wife will ride a motorbike with me but only if I’m the pillion rider.  She used to race motorbikes but gave up when a close mate died from anaphylactic shock from anaesthesia following a crash on the racetrack. She won’t fly with me: ‘why should I do something i don’t like’.  That’s that. Still have the bikes, pair of Ducati single demos (1963 & 68), but she can’t swing her leg over anymore to ride.  I’m told the ABC recently reported that old men on motorbike make up 50% of motorbike fatalities ( ‘old men’ being men over 40yo). They will probably have to get a permission note from a GP to keep their licence, or something equally ridiculous.

 

Yeah,

normally guys who gave up riding when raising a family.

returning later in life after not having sat on a bike for 20 years.

 

like flying its a skill that if not in constant use is forgotten - and easy to let overconfidence get you in trouble

1 hour ago, jackc said:

This went part way to funding my Jabiru…

PHWAOR... thats a rare bike

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonza-update-qantas-offer-to-aussies-fearing-for-jobs-as-ceos-late-night-memo-leaked-222238153.html

 - staff were sent a message from CEO Tim Jordan much earlier on social media at 3am that revealed the dire state of the airline.

"We have been informed this morning that effective 0300 today that all our aircraft have had repossession proceedings commenced by AlP the aircraft lessor," Jordan explained.

"This was a surprise to both ourselves and [Bonza's financial backers] 777 Partners.

"We are currently assessing all options and will provide an update here just as soon as we have more information available to share. As a consequence of this all first wave flights from all bases have been cancelled."

 

 

you would expect a major company to lease a vehicle,

but you would question the viability of an Uber driver leasing the same one.

 

nothing wrong with leasing - but like all liability has to be appropriate and manageable

 

not the first time the owner company has had this occur...

 

from Wikipedia:

On March 11, 2023, Airborne Capital Ltd. seized four of its planes operated by Flair over alleged non-payment. In a press conference, Flair CEO Stephen Jones suggested the seizures were motivated by competitors, and that the airline owed around US$1 million on the leases, and was in the process of making payment when the seizures occurred.^[24][25] The lessor, Airborne alleged that Flair had repeatedly missed payments amounting to several millions of dollars over a period of five months. Flair used other aircraft to continue to operate its schedule.^[26] In January 2024, it was reported that the lessors had filed claims at the UK High Court for costs and that there had been outstanding payments of $1.8 million on the four aircraft when notice of default was served.^[27]

never said they were outdated, but they weren't new aircraft.

and were transferred from a sister airline.

 

they were an existing asset.
 

which Bonza Lacked.

which I think will make it difficult for a bail-out.

as essentially any existing player who wants to take-over. has to also supply there own aircraft.

 

at this point what actual assets does Bonza have?

 

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Jetstar doesn't use the older "Q" fleet. It had the Dreamliner in greater numbers than Quaintarse. Nev

Okay gets a bit muddier.

Qantas aquired impulse, which became part of Qantaslink.

but the 717's of Impulse became the starter aircraft for Jetstar.

which then became the aircraft for National Jet Systems... another Qantas subsidary.

that operates aircraft for Qantaslink (yeah I'm confused too as to why its a new separate entity)

either way the original aircraft were older "Q "fleet

interesting reading the history of budget airlines in Australia,

I remember in Bransons biography him saying Virgin originally started with an operating budget of 1 million,

but looking at wiki they had two jets (one leased from another virgin airline). and only operated 1 route initially

it got lucky with the collapse of Ansett (also talked about in his biography - overnight the business completely changed)

giving them the gates etc.. to expand rapidly

 

Tiger had 5 aircraft transferred from a sister airline, and 10 million dollars.

started in 2007 - first year of profit was 2010

it also avoided using expensive airports (remember when you had to go to Avalon instead of Melbourne)

 

we all know Jet-star uses the older Qantas fleet and gates.

 

seems like Bonza had the right idea with only operating one type of airline to reduce costs.

but implemented it incorrectly - with the leases negating this advantage.

be interesting to see if its a case of trying to start too ambitiously, lack of capital or failure to gain the needed infrastructure (timing with the lease agreements not being possible as airlines scramble for more capacity post COVID)

 

 

 

from what ive read the price was only part of the issue,

cant fly if you dont have an aircraft.

 

they kept changing the lease agreements, and got caught with no aircraft to fly as a result.

the article i linked about their leasing issues was posted yesterday, before these cancelled flights.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/news/139669-australias-bonza-constrained-by-aircraft-availability

 

Sounds like the leasing of aircraft was their undoing

well that didn't last long

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-30/bonza-flights-cancelled-business-viability-question/103783236

other reports are already stating the aircraft have been repossessed

was going to ask what are you doing with the old prop?

Far out,

wonder what was going through the guys mind.

stealing heavy equipment is common - easy to sell to unsuspecting farmers etc...

no registration, very unlikely to be found again.

 

but to keep going after all that. he must have known he was never getting away.

absolute desperation.

sound is important.

 

same reason we all want a V8 ford... when the turbo 6 is a better car

we all miss the V10 era of formula 1 for the sound. or get excited at the startup of a Merlin

 

atmosphere (not the physical kind) is a huge reason of flying recreational.

especially for someone like me who flies once every 3 months for an hour.

its why I choose to pursue tail wheel - its a whole experience, more visceral 

 

if im taking off and landing at the same point. then I 100% want the most emotive experience in that time.

its what makes it so so satisfying and keeps me going with that feeling high though-out the day, buzzing from that time in the seat.

the feeling of the aircraft is as important as the scenery

 

 

On 08/03/2024 at 6:00 PM, flying dog said:

Starting just south of Brissie, ending just south of Moree.

 

The police were helped by a private helicopter pilot who tracked them and relayed the information to police.

 

WELL DONE to the pilot.

 

 

is there more to this story?

i have so many questions

 

was this stolen in a trailer, or flown?

how did the helicopter pilot know to track them?

1 hour ago, BrendAn said:

no one would buy them.  the bloke i heard about reckoned he was getting a container load for 12k each but he might have talking crap too.

could be,
what size container....

 

40ft with fit a lot of engines. like anything bulk quantity gets much better prices. and freight is a killer for anything pallet sized.

 

whole lot different buying 4 compared to 50

Is it as simple as Boeing decided to compete on price not tech?

so appealed to the minimum cost customer - who also has the minimum cost service divisions.

 

sure it might not be their fault - but is a direct result of the strategy they put in place.

they chose to compete on price

which all goes back to my original reason....

 

its so damn cool. never underestimate the rule of cool

39 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Needs anti dive forks. Forward swept wings. WHY FFS  ? 

Because its so damn cool.

 

but my guess from wikipedia:

 

Main spar location[edit]

The aft location of the main wing spar would lead to a more efficient interior arrangement with more usable space.

Inward spanwise flow[edit]

Spanwise airflow over a forward-swept wing is the reverse of flow over a conventional swept wing.

Air flowing over any swept wing tends to move spanwise towards the aftmost end of the wing. On a rearward-swept wing this is outwards towards the tip, while on a forward-swept wing it is inwards towards the root. As a result, the dangerous tip stall condition of a rearward-swept design becomes a safer and more controllable root stall on a forward-swept design. This allows full aileron control despite loss of lift, and also means that drag-inducing leading edge slots or other devices are not required. At transonic speeds, shockwaves build up first at the root rather than the tip, again helping ensure effective aileron control.

With the air flowing inwards, wingtip vortices and the accompanying drag are reduced. Instead, the fuselage acts as a very large wing fence and, since wings are generally larger at the root, this raises the maximum lift coefficient allowing a smaller wing. As a result, maneuverability is improved, especially at high angles of attack.

yep, absolutely useless if you need a runway the size of the space shuttles

what is the landing distance? and what is the landing speed?

cant exactly do a missed approach.

 

I dont know of any urban gliding operations...

All good,

admittedly I did quote you, Just wanted to show my argument with events advertising to what is most effective with the target demographic.

(i was raised in the church, so parables and examples are my go to with demonstrating a point)

 

also completely agree with your point that this site's news and events are only as good as our posting.
I imagine in this case most of us assumed it was common knowledge - so no one bothered to post it.

 

and unlike a fly-in. this is "general public" event.
so while its of interest to us, probably isn't the priority of the organizers team to post on a special interest group forum to advertise it.

12 minutes ago, facthunter said:

I haven't whinged or complained about anything except some implied expectation the information will somehow appear in front of us, automatically and that we  are here out of an Interest Primarily about AEROPLANES still has significant relevance.   Nev

My post was aimed at Red750 and his comments

23 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Do you think that is an equivalent. I don't. Nev

I think it is a bigger event with a broader interest range.

I Dont expect many here knew about it  - as it wasn't relevant to them. and it was a different location.
they were not the applicable market.

It was pointed out that there was billboards on Eastlink - one of Melbourne's busiest roads (probably second to the monash)
there is also live reads on the breakfast radio stations.

there was talk of Facebook - and photos after the event.

... but were you subscribed to the page before the event. (I know the Aldinga airshow is coming up as I am subscribed to the Aldinga page)

you cant whinge and complain about it not being advertised, just because its not in the Media you use - especially when you are outside the target demographic.

 

I think we would all agree a full page ad in a newspaper would have little impact now compared to a decade ago.