RFguy

remarkable only for  experienced on type, no doubt .

There has to be more to this. No sane pilot goes off into full on type crosswinds with little time on type. ....

This is the sort of crash where you want the battery to have a isolator at the battery, like GA aircraft. Maybe even double pole. and have non cracking insulated covers on  exposed  terminals 

no issue with the door open of a PA28 . might cost you a bit of drag , that's all.  and a bit of noise. 

as for creating a problem near stall?  no. Not compared to what those big wings are doing. Not sure where that wive's tail came from. (no offence to the wives, either) 

pilot  survived. 'trapped in the crash' lucky it didnt catch fire.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-01/plane-crash-bunbury-airport-authorities-responding/103536362

but you dont turn the ignition for the stall warning test, you turn on the MASTER switch, and also run the fuel pump to dump the gascolator 

piper door is easy to reclose in flight (it also has the upper latch)  AS LONG AS you do it as the POH tell you to.  (open storm window, close vents)  . that storm window is something special isnt it ? I thought it was for getting a bit of cool air and for your ground crew to pass you the loading manifest through the window, but  no, its for looking where you are going when you cant see where you are going. 
 

well with an old Cherokee, you wont have any problems with the door staying shut.  🙂 🙂(although I fixed mine) 

Then, you can have the worst of both worlds

and get a MID WING !  fly a Viking SF2A Cygnet. Markdun has one.

I have flown one of these as co pilot. nice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_SF-2A_Cygnet

It is not true for all low wings that they are hard to get out of if flipped.

It would be easy to get out of a flipped over PA28 cherokee etc if it flipped over.  Has a bit tall fin, also. I have no idea how you might flip one over though. 

PA28 is a low wing but has a side door. (and a baggage side door you can get in and out) . also in a PA28 you have a roof over your head. no sunburn. 

I have seen a couple of low wing coanopies  at oshkosh and they had pins around the canopy that unlocked the whole thing to come off into pieces...

Brendan, its time you got a Cherokee.

yeah if you can do it yourself

just arm yourself with lots of old blankets, foam pieces , straps etc so that nothing rubs on anything, even stuff with clearance like cables can get a vibration going and start rubbing etc, everything must be damped.

now now

OK....

I can imagine they dont spin past incipent, so much drag. 

There is a common misconception that a kg off at 1m distance at the front  is the same as 100g put 10m out the back... that's all...

Get a logistics company to do it

This way it will be their boys  and trucks all the way. You can get a door to door, but since they are the only carrier you can trust them using their hubs. 

I use PFM Logistics. I use them for moving things like high value  robots, I got onto them from a mate that moves $100,000 photo printer plotters (well known company).

extralite said " their flight characteristics are improved by adding weight to the tail wheel."
 

adding weight to the tail wheel ? are you insane ?  You increase the moment of inertia doing that,  adversely affecting spin recovery.

It is NOT just a simple matter of weight off one end is OK at the other, moment of inertia is about distance squared !!!

FFS.

NFW I would get in a plane that someone did that.

Anyone reading this I would strongly advise against it unless it has been re-flight tested by someone who knows what they are doing  in all envelopes.

but i might have bent the airframe on the recovery... hard in the sim to grasp everything.

Factory handling notes for the PA28 suggest not immediately jumping on the opposite rudder with a wing drop on a stall , just centralize the controls, power off if necessary......as   unnecessary use of full rudder may invite an 'undesirable aircraft state' ...   in the simulator , in a rather unhelpful pro-trouble aircraft configuration, I got a rollover and inverted half ?spin? to commence.... let go of everything, nose down dive and recovery.

Master isolation relays should be required mandatory on all aircraft. But its not. although in VH world (non experimental) , for a certified aircraft you will not get cert if it doesnt have one because it will not be able to meet the criteria of being able to isolate the battery. 

I suspect many Jabiru fires are due to no battery isolator, and watch out for Sling also, no battery isolator in at least one aircraft I have seen. 

The other Jab fires are probably overflowing carbs.

cheap

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/masterrelay.php

although that one is marginal on starter current if a 3300 jab, but OK for a 4 cyl rotax/jab

otherwise :

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/relays/sts-12a24a.php

2 hours ago, cscotthendry said:

Rotax reccomend a capacitor between the output of the regulator and ground. An isolator on the positive terminal of the battery shouldn't be placed between these two or it negates the benefit of the capacitor.

The capacitor provides a small load to the regulator to stop it from overvoltage damage if the connection between the regulator and the rest of the system is lost, most likely from the isolator switch being turned off, or a master relay failure, while the engine is running.

mmmmmm some extra here

1) The capacitor is required to provide smoothing of the pulses of current that come out of the alternator.  The alternator produces current pulses, and if the alternator output is not connected direct to the battery (to do the pulse smoothing) it will put alot fo noise into the harness. The capacitor is always recommended (by me) .

2) It does not put a small load  on the alternator.  It does NOT prevent overvoltage, what it does is smooth out the current pulses and makes the alternator output look more like DC by being a reserviour between pulses. 

The alternator output shoudl always go direct to the battery via a circuit breaker. The alternator regulator voltage sense wire should go to the battery or the master bus. some regulators draw a little bit of current all the time that might flatten a battery in 3 months. if you fly every 2 weeks this is no problem. if you fly every 6 months, then connect it to the master bus but you will die anyway because you are not current, so the alternator is moot.

I wonder if that was post the service bulletin. . interesting. 

I think the big drag flap might assist a short fielder. but maybe it screws up other aspects.

Wasnt just the J170 it applied to, think also applied to J200 , early J230

JSB029 1,2

"Reducing maximum flap deflection. Testing showed that the final stages of the flap movement produced no significant effect on the aircraft’s stall speed but had a slight negative effect on the aircraft’s handling at low speeds."

Jabirus once had more flap but they ,  with an SB , reduced it (from 40 back to 30 etc)  because it was said to "increase drag  and not generate any more lift"

I argue that sometimes you might want that 

Recovering from a go around from flare or partial touchdown with 40 deg flap in the PA28 requires a sequenced staged operation. 1) full power, control the slight pitch up , get aircraft stable and flying in ground effect,.  You'll quickly find she wont get much over T.O.S.S. like that........   That you struggle to accelerate at all .......and  that it wont make more than 70 kts should be the wakeup call ... 2) once you have the thing flying again, get rid of one stage flap back to 25. now it will climb,  needs another nose  / trim adjustment , and so on. 

The lack of  acceleration , let alone any climb at full throttle should be an INSTANT alarm bell. NOT something you have to think about, needs to be INSTANT alarm bell in your head.    And curency drives that. You know how it 'usually feels'.

There's a bunch of things I can list that MUST be instant reaction without having to think.  

"However, prior to the accident flight, it had been 121 days since the pilot’s last flight."

currency currency currency

Per my post about 5 posts back....

I thought my flying would be all over the shop with the bumps but wasnt so bad.

left hand circuits on 33..

(red arrow)  I flew right over the same course on those two normal approaches. I did that just by looking over my shoulder and judging where base and final should be , didnt look at the ground, too busy looking for the other two aircraft in circuit. no GPS or tablet....  just a good compass. quite surprising how precise you get at your home AD.

200+ hours now. 65+  in the piper I think.    

not much wind though.. 5-10 kts down the runway.

My downwind altitude hold was awful ....

I nose over,  (end climb)  then let the plane accelerate to desired cruise speed, reduce throttle as necessary, and then trim for zero stick forces. 

On 11/02/2024 at 9:15 AM, Methusala said:

Good  landings begin with a good approach. Perhaps Nev could say a few things about stabilised approaches in airline flying. Don

PA28 : I'd shot a few approaches after lunch yesterday on a warm 32degC day. Late summer, the ground is warm now even at 5am.

There's not much more ' un stabilized approach  ' then  the glide in the bumps  over bare paddocks in the summer afternoon. I think its a good challenge.

Last approach was a glide approach in the sinks and the bumps. I flew low over a big freshly burned/tilled?/ cleaned brown patch , hoping to get a bit of assistance, as I was a bit low..... and got a sink. Was flapless at the time since flaps only would have hastened my descent, so getting a bit slow, put power on a bit, then resumed glide the last 100m to the runway midfield, over runway, all the flaps out in one go,  decending turn to line it  up, as long as I keep my airspeed up, all is good. .   and plonk. geez I know this girl now. But glides in the bumps are challenging.

The biggest driver of my landing performance is currency.  More so than fatigue I think. At least Weekly flying drives competence/currency/ confidence.  And I mean not going out at 7am, but going out when its a little challenging...  (if that's what you want)