sseeker

Done motz, good luck with it all!!

-Andrew

Maj I will definitely ask him what he's going on about. If after 50hrs of use the A/C can no longer be used for training, I'm better off buying a Thruster or something. (Something slightly cheaper to purchase/maintain)

-Andrew

The cross hire isn't what's making me interested in the aircraft. I want to buy the plane, for the plane. Not for the cross hire. So even if after I buy it I get a contract that's not worth committing to, I still have the aircraft.

-Andrew

sSeeker, You cannot use an aircraft for hire or training with a time-expired engine, period. I maintain a gazalle or two myself as a level 2, and I'm pretty sure your 912A will be a 1200 hour engine.Privatly operated, yes you can operate "on-condition" as long as the manufacturers engine performance tolerences are as recommended.

Even then it would be wise to have an experienced L2 with Rotax experience to perform the checks on the engine for monitoring purposes.

 

Aircraft hire or leaseback can be a minefield, especially to a flightschool.

 

Best case scenero would be they really look after your aircraft, fly it everyday making a lot of money, and they actually pay you your share.

 

Worst-case scenero (and unfortunatly more common) is they fly the ring off it, don't take good care off it, and you don't get paid. Then your still left with your loan payments, a more time-exed engine, and a plane in more worn condition.

 

If the situation and individuals involved look good go for it, but tread very carefully my friend. Either way you will need to put a new engine in it for training use, even if it is 'privatly owned'...The potential litagation involved with a first-solo student crashing because of a time-exed engine equipped aircraft, would lock you as the owner away so long, you would forget what an aeroplane even looked like !...The flying school would of course put all liability back on you as the owner, and the one ultimatly responsible by law (both CASA and RAA) as the aircraft 'maintainer'.......................................................................Maj...

I asked the L2 this and the engine is a 1500hr engine. (He was saying they came with 1200hr, 1500hr and 2000hr overhaul times as they got better). You're saying that an engine with condition reporting on it can't be used for training? This goes against what the L2 owner has said. I can understand where you're coming from, the aircraft has been cross hired to the school since this L2 owned it. It has been looked after very well. I can't comment on what its been through while students have been flying it solo.

The point of a contract is you both know where you stand, what makes you happy/unhappy. I would go for a set minimum hours per month plus a percentage of hours. Do you want to fly the plane on weekends? you need that in the contract as well. What happens if the plane gets damaged, their damage, your damage? What happens if the insurance doesn't pay? What happens if they are slow to pay? you need to put in the contract the cost of them getting sued by you for damages.Expect the best and plan for the worst

I haven't got anything drawn up with the flying school. I can't get anything drawn up until I own the aircraft anyway. It's not going to be just one school its hired to, it'll be both Bindoon and Northam. TopFun at Bindoon has its own insurance which the school has offered to insure my aircraft with and no idea about Northam. I haven't got that far into it yet.

-Andrew

There's no minimum or maximum amount of hours required to be flown by the school. I'd like as many hours as possible as the costs have been laid out and it helps pay the aircraft off. In return it also wears the aircraft out.

-Andrew

Hi Tornado,

The school pays $80/hr for the aircraft and it costs me $61-$65/hr to operate, that's a $19-$15 profit per flying hour. There's isn't much cash flow involved with that. If the A/Cs not flying, it's only costing me a loan, hangarage & insurance. However the owner has told me that he'd be able to make it fly during the week, which in combination with weekend school flying, it will pay for some of the loan. Also during the week training will be off of a bitumen strip which eliminates the risk of stone damage.

By the way, I'm not trying to say because I'm not earning much I shouldn't maintain the aircraft properly. I'm just saying that if it did need an overhaul, it can be taken offline and overhauled without it blowing my budget.

-Andrew

In my cost sheet I worked on the figure of $10,000 per 500hrs. Although that's not guaranteed, it's something to work on. What do you think? Do you think $10,000 is too little for an overhaul?

-Andrew

They should be charging $50/ldg, given what local government pays employees, and their inefficiencies in operation.

-Andrew

Hi,

The owner is the L2 at the flying school.

-Andrew

Hi,

I'm in the process of gathering information about a Skyfox Gazelle for sale at my local aerodrome. The aircraft is for sale for a very reasonable price and together with my Dad I've been thinking about buying it. This would be my first aeroplane. I've been in contact with the owner of the aircraft and he's given me the following info:

A/C Recently tidied up

All ADs up to date (including most recent one)

Full engine and aircraft log books.

Been in a few dodgy landings however the undercarriage was fixed by an L2/LAME at Jandakot.

~1450hrs TT engine and airframe. Rotax 912A.

Has just started condition reporting the engine (so it doesn't have to be rebuilt)

Compression and general wear/tear of engine is excellent, all in very good shape (I've flown and inspected it myself)

Airframe has some patches with paint on it but isn't too bad.

The A/C is a training aeroplane and will be cross hired to my local flying school. I've already been in touch with the flying school to talk about a cross hire agreement and its been sorted out. I've also prepared a cost sheet and thats been looked over by both the school CFI and the aircraft owner to make sure I haven't missed anything.

What other questions should I be asking? What should I be looking for? I have my Dads support behind the whole thing although he doesn't want me rushing into an investment when there could be things wrong with plane. Best to ask as many questions as you can!

-Andrew

My school charges:

Jabiru 160C/D Wet:

Dual: $155/hr

Solo: $125/hr

Skyfox Gazelle & CA25 Wet:

Dual: $145/hr

Solo: $115/hr

-Andrew

Hi,

Thanks for the replies. My replacement propeller costs are probably adequate to cover replacement/refurbishment if it needs done.

Thanks,

Andrew

The Gazelle will definitely be used for flight training by students of my flying school, so the carbon prop isn't an option.

-Andrew

Hi,

Preparing a cost sheet on a Skyfox Gazelle at Bindoon for sale and I've come across a bit of a grey area. The aircraft has a wooden propeller and operates out of a gravel strip. In my cost sheet I've put down a new propeller every 200hrs to compensate for the risk of a rather large stone striking the prop. Obviously you can't time when something like this is going to happen and because it's a training aeroplane, there's quite a high risk. The CFI of my flying school has said that the prop can be repaired for around $300 if it has a bit of stone rash. I take it stone rash is very mild stone chips? Can a single large chip which would render the A/C unairworthy be repaired for a lower price than something like $1600 for a new propeller? The current propeller has been on the A/C for 18 months and still going strong. It seems like a bit of a gamble to me!

-Andrew

Your hours are (legally) directly convertible, i.e hour for hour. The GA school has every right to make you repeat segments of the PPL syllabus if they want you to.

My experience is:

Obtain ARN

Obtain Medical

Obtain SPL/ASIC

Sit GA BAK

Sit PPL Exam

(Theory and paperwork over with! Well most of it anyway.)

Get used to a GA plane (C172)

Do your 2hrs Instrument

Practice using navaids with instructor (VOR/ADF)

Do a few solo navs/training flights.

If you're up for it, book your PPL exam.

This is my experience with the Royal Aero Club of WA after speaking to Trent the CFI.

Regards,

Andrew

Hmm Mr sseeker....Do you realise that you DONT NEED RAAus approval to teach theory. There is no requirement other than your expressed desire to obtain RAAus approval.

 

Nong

I'm sure this would have its legal requirements. I highly doubt any FTF will let you give its students theory training without the endorsement (unless you were well qualified) nor would RA-Aus let you run any type of course like, BAK, Air Leg, Human Factors courses etc...

Probably varies from state to state. In Victoria schools are not allowed to employ a teacher without a B.Ed and of course there's a bunch of other pieces of paper they need too now, depending on the level at which they teach. At the end of the day, it is the knowledge, experience, manner, flexibility and motivation rather than pieces of paper that make a good teacher.Best wishes and enjoy the journey.

Lastly, thanks to everyone who gave their input and opinions, very much appreciated. I've taken it all into consideration. I'll keep everyone posted on how I go.

-Andrew

No that's not what I meant... I meant someone who has some knowledge of the endorsement, its requirements and how I should go about gaining it! I wasn't saying (and sorry if it came across like that) that Motz and Nev aren't teaching properly or don't know how to teach properly. You guys said it yourself, you don't really know what's involved with the endorsement, so I was happy that someone came along that actually holds it.

I appreciate the advice and yes I'm certainly listening to it! Also, not all teachers hold a B. Education, there are some teachers at my school that don't hold that, they still teach, and they're quite good it at. I really do like aviation, I've put a shit load of effort into getting what I have now and I'm not even half way to where I wanna go. I do enjoy teaching others and I asked myself the question David told me to ask myself and I got quite a positive answer (yeah I know you said you didn't wanna know lol). Everyone has to start somewhere. I've emailed an RAA school with instructor training permission, the only one in WA that is. I did this before Nev suggested I do the GA course. I also suspect that the GA course may have prerequisites that I don't have i.e hold the CPL minimum before attending any of the instruction courses. I've spoken to the CFI at the Royal Aero Club and he was very supportive of converting my RAA licence to a GFPT so he may feel the same way if I explain what I'm trying to achieve with the theory instructor permit. (If it's not a CASA requirement that is.)

-Andrew

Loro,

Thanks for replying! Glad there's someone on here who actually holds the endorsement and does it for real. I hold the RA-Aus certificate with around 80hrs. While it's not a lot, it's certainly a start to some practical experience.

-Andrew

The best way to do a PMI course would be to contact an RA-Aus school that does instructor training? Don't they generally run these types of things in groups?

-Andrew

Nev,

That's all well and true for flight instruction, and thanks for outling that. But I'm talking about theory instruction. CPL Theory is the 2nd highest grade of theory you can learn in aviation (1 down from ATPL), surely this is suffecient for this endorsement issue considering the ops manual says PPL theory minimum. PPL Theory certainly isn't enough for teaching theory to students. The question that puzzles me is what is recognized as an acceptable level of teaching experience? Cause we all know BAK, Air Law, Radio, MET etc.. But teaching it is obviously a totally different thing.

Regards,

Andrew

Hi facthunter,

Thanks for the reply. I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Although some of what you just said is the same as saying a newly qualified FI doesn't have the knowledge to pass onto a student (theory). The min requirement for an RAA instructors rating is a PPL exam, do you really think thats enough? You also need PPL theory minimum for this, which i think certainly isn't enough. The reason i asked about PMI is because i dont have any experience teaching which is obviously a set back.

I can understand and appreciate what youre saying but I'm just a little puzzled by some of those statements that ive outlined.

-Andrew

sent from my phone, sorry if the grammars crap.

Good idea motz. Also, I'm 16.

-Andrew

I understand that the operations manager must approve all ground instructors in writing. It doesn't really mention much about the requirements though. Have any of you got any experience with this and can lead me in the right direction?

-Andrew

Hi all,

I'm interested in the RA-Aus ground theory instructor endorsement. What's involved in obtaining this endorsement? I'm soon to start my CPL exams so by the end of those I should have quite a significant amount of knowledge under my belt. Are the CPL exams enough to obtain it? Surely there would be some kind of principles of instruction/classroom experience required? If so how do you go about getting it? I'm looking at becoming a flight instructor once I'm out of school (GA and RAA) so I think this would be an excellent start to the whole instruction process. I study aviation as a school subject and my friends sometimes come to me for a slightly easier explanation of methods and theories and they usually understand them by the time I'm finished, so I guess that's a start!

I understand that the operations manager must approve all ground instructors in writing. It doesn't really mention much about the requirements though. Have any of you got any experience with this and can lead me in the right direction? I understand it's quite a big responsibility for someone my age but I think I can handle it, I really enjoy helping my friends in aviation study towards exams and tests. I take the endorsement gives you the right teach an FTFs students the required knowledge to pass all of the RA-Aus theory exams? All the standard rules of belonging to an FTF still apply? So basically once you think the student is ready to sit the exam, you let them sit it and an FI signs them off?

Regards,

Andrew

Jeppesen CR2! Perfect for UL operations because it's nice and compact. (Although a lot of people won't use the wiz wheel in the air)

-Andrew