matt walsh

Hi Geoff, I'm intrigued why you double handle the fuel from one 10 litre container to another rather than directly pouring into Mr Funnel and into tank. Perhaps the positioning of the tank filler hole makes it awkward to use a Mr funnel and pour into the funnel and its just easier to direct fill. Or maybe you just don't like pouring into the funnel when its in the tank hole, (funnel can move around abit). Good idea about buying your fuel from busy high volume stations to maximise the likelihood of freshest fuel each flight.

Keith, I've done it again!! You're at Echuca and not Bendigo. I reckon we've met perhaps as I recall visiting the Echuca Flying Club awhile ago and talking to a chap who was seeking a Gazelle, maybe it was you. Anyway I'm aware of the club's great Sunday lunches so will try and make to one and we could meet then perhaps. Better go and cool down now.

Keith, I'm getting my correspondents mixed up. I'm working in Sri Lanka at present the heat is frying my brain. With daily temperatures of 32c our Gazelles would labour getting to altitude!! I agree it can be tricky to avoid overfilling. I have a towel with hole for tank hole that I place over wing to absorb any overflow if I overfill. It works ok but would be better with a rubber/ impermeable bottom layer and absorbent top layer, could bond a thick towel to a thin rubber or plastic. With a pump and hose system you might still have to observe the rising tank level from standing over on steps and close tap valve on hoe when full. Alternative you could have the tap in line on the hose and view the sight gauge in the cabin to determine when to shut off. Now this pumping caper is beginning to sound not much easier or quicker than using 10litre containers. If I can make my 10l containers empty faster, then that's part of irritation relieved. FYI, I am folding my wings also. I fold back the port/pilot side first and secure onto fuselage with bungy cords. Then manoeuvre plane into hanger corner with folded wing close up to hanger wall. place timber support frame under tail of fuselage and fold starboard wing back and strap in place. Cover the wings with one large tarp and bungy cord secure and that's it. I'd like to catch up with you at YBDG sometime and admire your Gazelle. I'm back in Aus in mid Nov and will be chomping for a fly!! I have very dear friends living on Heinz Lane at end of airfield so easy to combine visits. Cheers

Hi Keith (and is that Keith Wigg who rebuilt his Gazelle after damaged at Avalon few years back???), I agree that 10 litre containers are easy to lift and hold whilst filling. And that's' only 2 per tank. I have a few 10 litre containers and find them to be relatively slow to pour from as the smaller containers usually don't have a opposite end breather hole. I could create one I guess to speed the flow. I am well supplied with 20L containers so would need to purchase more 10 Litre containers. That was another reason for a system suiting my existing containers ( although the Tanami pump may require metal jerry can purchases) Also I was want to avoid using steps or ladders for refueling so pumping from a container on ground was appealing. I can remove wing tank caps and insert Mr Funnel whilst standing on the ground. This also avoids need to take my mini steps for refueling at other strips. Nearly always, I can find something to stand on to refuel however I'll bet the time I leave the steps at Penfield, I wont locate any object at another strip to stand on!!!! You mentioned that you are wheel chaired and I reckon its fantastic that you make the effort to aviate. Cant be easier and probably fiddly to make it all work. I respect you. I agree that the pump set is not cheap, but once assembled, will last for ever and probably very easily sold on Ebay etc. You could connect the pump though the trailer permanent wiring and car power so no connections each time and one less task. The use of a truck fuel tank is good idea and the tank should have fuel outlet plumbed already for easy connection to the 12v pump. Reading about fuel storage and quality, seems that 100 or so litres wont deteriorate much and maybe pressurize the tank somehow as per OME's comments above. Another option might be to cut the neck of a steel jerry can and have it welded to the truck fuel tank, either replacing the factiory cap and neck or separte hole. The you could use a Tanami pump to pressurise the tank and avoid the electric pump. Tanami could advise if their pump would deliver enough pressure to drive the fuel but probably likely to. So thats another ption for yoyur refueling tanker set up!! Regards Matt Walsh

Thanks HF for the reference and it makes sense. Easy to keep drum and tanks sealed up till fuel is needed.

Thanks for explanation Marty. This might sound like a really daft idea, could you have the wing as one complete unit and mount on a circular plate. This plate would sit on another circular plate attached to "roof" of cabin frame. Two plates bolted together with centre bolt to enable wing to swivel and line up with fuselage. Wing still has struts to connect to bottom bracket on fuselage. Locking bolts to retain wing in normal or transport configuration. Its obviously very non standard so requiring engineer approval etc. Probably complicated etc but just an idle thought.

Hi Peter, the portable fuel tanker and pump looks a ripper. My understanding about fuel quality if that it goes "off" or loses some of its octane rating if stored for several weeks and that fresh fuel is always preferred. I'm curious if pilots refuelling from tanks or 44 gal drums, consume that much fuel in weeks? if not, is the fuel sitting in the tank for long period. Maybe this is not an issue and I'm just interested as I it would take me 2-3 months to use 200litres of PULP.

Hi Marty, do I understand that you remove both wings from your Gazelle and store elsewhere? sounds like a significant task and open to things going wrong ie linkages, strut mounting bolts. Then getting the wings aligned etc. Are you unable to simply fold the wings back and store the plane in this configuration. I reckon the folded arrangement is not much wider then the bare fuselage. It all souns like a lot of work to me !!

Ian, what's your nozzle arrangement at the end of discharge hose? Do you insert the hose directly into fuel tank? do you have a tap or valve to control flow once the jerry can is pressurised?

Ricky M , yes a fuel spill would be embarrassing and another act for Jabiru dislikers to waggle their fingers against!!!! Re your comment on balancing pump pressure and nozzle control, is your procedure; pump up the jerry can to certain pressure or no's of strokes of pump, then operate the nozzle and discharge the fuel into funnel. When it ceases to flow ie pressure lost then nozzle off and re pressurise and repeat cycle??? I note your Perth address. Have you flown to Rottnest Island? I went over in a VH Cessna and it was pretty interesting landing.

Ricky, I might start with plastic and see how that goes. Sounds like Tanami gives good customer service if I experienced sam cracking as you did. The pump will fit any brand jerry can wont it or do you have to mate it with a Tanami brand metal jerry? Regarding your system, is the nozzle like a tap and allows the fuel flow to be regulated? Does the nozzle empty into a Mr Funnel and into the wing tank? How is the nozzle kept in the funnel whilst fuel flows? Do you have to hand hold the nozzle from standing on steps?? Does it have to be a nozzle or a cheaper brass tap say a gas fitting or plumbing tap? Poteroo: do you place the discharge hose into a Mr Funnel on your high wing tanks? and if so how is it retained there? Any ideas for an inline file, maybe a plastic RyCo automotive type filter, so that hose can go directly into tank??

Potteroo, what type of container do you use with your Tanami pump; metal jerry or plastic?? have you had problems with breaking caps like Ricky M advises in Thread #44?

Rank, I think I uses "Knead It" or similar name also. It was in a round clear plastic tube and you tore off a piece, worked it with fingers then plugged hole, might be a "Selleys" product. They also made same style of material for use in water tanks. pretty amazingly good stuff.

Ricky M, thanks for the heads up about Tanami pump models with plastic cap for plastic fuel containers. Sounds like you changed to using metal jerry can and the Tanami with cap for metal jerry's. Is this correct? I'm assuming Tanami don't make a metal round cap for plastic containers. You said that you had to tighten the plastic caps so much to seal and hold pressure, that they split. Could you put a rubber O ring on the thread to improve sealing? If the Tanami isn't reliable or durable for plastic then I have to buy new metal containers which though not a big issue, is less appealing.

Thanks, reminds me about a punctured fuel tank in my Subaru liberty wagon whilst on the Tanami Track from Halls Creek to Alice Springs 15 years ago. Tank to be removed for welding but is a saddle style and would need to take off diff etc to remove tank. Mechanic said to plug hole with a similar "metal" putty until we returned to Melbourne. The plug still sealing tight when I sold our beloved Suby 10 years later. Will have a crack at this system.

OME, just read your suggestion, great idea and some fun to boot. More workshop time in order for these refillables. Do you have a preferred sealant or putty for around the valve stem/can interface?? Should I suggest to my wife about a refillable whipped cream can?? And another thought, refillable shaving cream can for me. The list is possibly endless!!

Nothing like the true Aussie spirit of helping out. Fantastic reponses and very worthwhile comments and suggestions. Thanks everybody. Cosmic, Rick M and Potteroo: The Tanami pump looks a treat and has a plastic container model (I initially thought they were only for metal jerry cans meaning new containers!!) local price is about $75 and use of foot pump sounds convenient and simple. Also no electricity involved. APM: like your ingenuity in making the air system and looks simple but effective. Jet JR: I checked Billy Goat pumps and look simple and easy to use but understand they are expensive around ,$160?? SDQDI: great set up and would like to be on acres and have similar set up. To all, thanks. The Tanami pumps looks appealing and modest cost. I might tinker with fittings to caps of my container to construct a sir pressure arrangement,(but might be lazy and pick up a Tanami!!). PS: My enquiry arose because I am currently working in Sri Lanka and found a decent steel Japanese rotary pump for a good price and thought I would bring it home. Based on all your helpful advice, I'm now convinced of merits of the pressurised container system so no sale to the SL's this trip!! Regards Matt Walsh

Hi all, SDQDI: thanks for offering to photograph and detail your pump type and I look forward to hearing from you. Kyle: nice pump and would work a dream. Out of my budget!!! Note your comment on pump type. I understand the Facet brand 12v pump is a magnetic impeller, fully sealed unit. Crashley: you mentioned that your pump is a type "commonly used on farm diesel tanks". Was your pump sold as being suitable for petrol or have you used a diesel pump with success. There are heaps of diesel transfer pumps around but less petrol suitable ones, so can you safely use a diesel transfer pump for MoGas?? Skeptic36: Thanks for the lead. I've emailed the Ecan Man for details of his pump ie max lift capability, hand pumps to transfer 20 litres etc. APM: sounds great, very practical also. With the typical 20 litre red fuel container, I could have compressed air entering via one cap and fuel out via the other. I would have a fuel approved hose with end filter, reaching down to near bottom of container then out through other cap and up to wing tank. If decent inlet filter then no need for Mr Funnel and hose directly into tank. Using brass fittings through the caps and caps screwed tight should establish the sealed system. A source of compressed air could even be a small 12v auto compressor used for inflating flat tyres or camping beds. Or just use a hand pump. APM, I'd really appreciate photos etc of your set up. So again thanks to my aviator community. Lots of clever pilots out there!!

Thanks everyone for your comments. Just to clarify, I intend to sit the rotary pump with its metal inlet tube, directly into the usual 20 litre red plastic approved fuel safe container, with a rubber hose from outlet side discharging into Mr Funnel into the fuel tank. The suggestion of an inline filter is helpful and I assume the filter will be on the inlet side of the pump ie on the end of the inlet tube in at the bottom of the container and so the outlet hose could discharge directly into the plane's tank. I've also considered using a "Facet" 12v electric pump, again pumping from my 20 litre red fuel containers into the tanks via inline filter or into Mr Funnel. Does anyone know the fuel flow rate or had experience doing similar?? SDQDI, regarding your boat tank and 12v pump refueling set up, can you describe the 12v pump please. brand flow rate etc. How long to empty a 20 lite container approx? Again thanks for all advice, much appreciated. Matt Walsh.

Hi Stevron, Thanks for descibing an interesting trip. A few years ago, 3 other pliots and myself flew from our base airfield at Penfield, near Sunbury, Victoria to Arkaroola in the northern Flinders Ranges via Wentworth, Pt Agusta, Marree, William Creek Arkaroola. Magnificient scenic views of our rugged ancient land and vibrant colors and land forms. Arkaroola homestead was a relaxed and interesting lpace with a rich and varied history. The Sprigg Family who established the place have a fascinating history and current family member Doug, was really welcoming and helpful. The strip is straightforward. We returned via Lake Frome to Broken Hill, Robinvale , Bendigo and to Penfield. This trip too about 25 hrs flying time spread out over 4-5 days. 2 Jabs, 1 Texan, 1 Gazelle. I recommend this area for its rugged beauty and expansiveness.

Hi all, I am contemplating the use of an all metal Japanese made rotary hand drum pump for filling the wing tanks as an alternative to pouring from elevated 20 litre containers. The MoGas would still be discharged into a "Mr Funnel" and then into the wing tanks of my Gazelle. The hand pump would be ground earth and all fuel lines would be fuel grade quality rubber Are there any specific and unsolvable safety issues that I must consider? Has anyone used a hand pump satisfactorily? Has any one devised an easier method for refueling than standing up a ladder with a heavy container then delicately balancing the container as the fuel is tipped into the funnel??? I will appreciate any comment, knowledge and experience on this matter. Thank Matt Walsh

Metalman2, firstly apology for mispelling your name (ie Mealman) bad manners!. Thanks for replying and your aircraft sounds equally enjoyable as our Gazelle. I'd like to see a photo of her so post if you would. I am interested in your trip to Longreach, the route and fuel stops. Look forward also to meeting up with you and perhaps we can meet at Coldstream some time, cheers Matt

Maj, thanks for your comments and advice. I'm reading from your words that operating reliably and confidently beyond current 2130 hrs, with all checks being ok, can be expected. Cheers Matt Walsh

Hi MealMan (Matty), do you fly a Skyfox gazelle and if so hours on the engine. We also fly a Gazelle, hangered at Penfield near Sunbury. We loove our Gazelle and its been a terrific reliable and low maintenence machine. My only regret is the limited fuel capacity (50l) which limits cross country trips. Any ideas for easily increasing capacity? Thanks Matt Walsh (coincidently we have same first names)

Hi all, I'm am interested in your opinions/experiences regarding longevity/reliability of Rotax 80HP motors. Our 1996 Skyfox Gazelle runs the above motor which has completed about 2140hrs with no problems during our 4 years of ownership. Cylinder compressions have similar at each annual service, all AD's have been completed and no metal particles noted on drain plug or in filters. The engine has not given any problems or failures however the high cost of a toatl overhaul/rebuild will maynot be a good value proposition. I am particulary keen to undertake some interstate trips (already flown to William Creek and Flinders Ranges comfortably) and am thinking about reliabilty aspects during such a trip and over remote areas, with a motor having these hours. Has anyone run their 80Hp's say beyound 3000hrs and without hesitation and problems? Any advice or issues to consider/manage with engines in this service bracket? Thanks, Matt Walsh, Gazelle 3478 Penfield Victoria. PS the aircraft is strictly private use, no school use.