FlyingVizsla

Bill beat me to it - he knows this subject better than I - take his advice before mine any day.

Been a while since I have had to look this up - the calculation of flight time is all through the legislation (would be lovely to have it in one place - even spelt out in the VFR guide - would help). Here is the definition of flight time from the Civil Aviation Orders Part 48

flight time means the total time from the moment when the aircraft first moves under its own power for the purpose of taking off until the moment it comes to rest at the end of the flight.

ie chock to chock - flight time is what is recorded in the log book. There are set % tolerances between what goes in the log book and what goes in the maintenance release which is tacho time.

Maintenance / engine time - I have to find it in the legislation first before you can quote me... The memory is getting a little dim.

Sue

I may need some expert guidance...

I am a PPL, about 10 years ago I started a conversion to RAA in a tailwheel aircraft but didn't complete it (was issued with a student licence & did 3 hours). Since then I married, and my husband owns several tailwheel RAA aircraft in the 95-10 category, one 19 (Rans) and one 55 (the Lightwing in use by an Instructor). Do I need to do my conversion in a factory built, or could I do it in my husband's Rans?

Or would I be better off getting a tailwheel endorsement through a GA school and converting to RAA in any aircraft and getting my tailwheel recognised by RAA? If this is possible it may overcome some of the difficulty I am having getting something to fit me - guessing that some of the plastic fantastics have adjustable seats and are pretty compact.

In the end I will be flying our own aircraft which have been modified so I can reach. My husband wants me to be able to enjoy flying the aircraft I have helped to build or that he currently enjoys and it also helps with taking aircraft to fly-ins.

Sue

Savage Cub looks very much like our Rans Courier S7 but with rounded tail feathers. I am 63kg - marriage, menopause and a management job added about 20kg which I am now trying to get off. Have been in a Thruster & Drifter. Should I put some lead in my pockets?

Sue

I am interested in tailwheel - as you can see all our RAAus aircraft are taildraggers. Fronted up to an instructor with our factory built Lightwing GA 912, but he declined because I was too short. I am 4'7" and need something where the seat can move forward (plus cushions) and still give me visibility. I did 3 hours in another Lightwing W1 (about 10 years ago) but did find full rudder difficult without hanging on to the frame. It seemed like I sat on the last 2" of seat and the cushions compressed behind me. Never had a problem with ground handling. Lovely husband has altered the rudders in our other aircraft so I can fly them - only need to get the T/W training in a factory built to steal them. Do you have any suggestions? Anything in your fleet?

Sue

An interesting aside - some pilots make their own turbulence. I had a young instructor who started his career working (washing planes, answering phones & occasionally flying) for an old mustering pilot. One day Young bloke was doing the flying and bouncing around. Brian told him he could see the clear air turbulance and so took over to show him how to ride the bumps, holding the yoke with one or two fingers, bearly moving. Young instructor held him in awe for years. Brian confided to me that young blokes fresh from training in the city tensed up in the thermally air in the outback, held the controls in a vice like grip and overcorrected leading to more and more bumps - effectively creating their own turbulance.

We did notice that people who could ride a horse or did a lot of work off the back of a moving ute handled the rough better, even reducing the bounce. I wonder if it works for people with a bit of sea faring experience?

Sue

Springsure is a great town, strip right on the edge of town and it's all downhill to the CBD about 1km. PM me if you are visiting and we can arrange anything from accom, transport to tours - some friendly pilots and ex-pilots in town.

Rolleston is good too, strip right in town, about 400m to CBD. There is actually a parallel strip built by a guy who was trying to build a hangar on the Council's strip but ended up with such red tape and nonsensical conditions that it was easier for him to buy the land across the road and build his own strip and hangar. He has a 1932 Lockheed, C172 and others. So much for amalgamated Councils - hangar approvals were simple and straightforward with the Shire Council. Don't get me started...

Sue

Here's some recent 100 hourly figures for a C152

Labour $115.60 /hr regardless of who does the work (apprentice, AME, LAME)

Oil analysis $39.78

Oil $46.20

Spark plugs $78.60

Filters Air/oil $44.80

Various hoses, bearings, cups, clamps, sleeves etc $490.63

Freight $15.91

Extras - Transponder repair & calibration (has to be sent away - so removal etc included) $694.10

Replace door window (broken by hirer's beast) $136.50 (to be paid by hirer)

Labour for all the above = 33hrs = $3,811.50

Total incl GST $5358.02

One before that $2,381.32

One before that $2,000.54

Keep in mind that there are things that happen on a regular basis. Instruments to be taken out inspected and recalibrated (for me this means they all have to be removed, sent away, returned, reinstall and compass reswung). Fuel tanks drained and inspected - twice I have failed to ask first and presented with tanks full - the avgas can't be put back but I suspect it gets used in something ... The fire extinguisher gets sent away to be tested. The batteries in the ELT get replaced (not a big issue now). Battery replaced.

Other surprises / extras - Elevator repair (hinge was coming loose) $1343.76

DG & Turn co-ordinator both died

Carby problems

Battery alternator problems - $385.43

Starting problems - new starter & battery $2,318.62

Probably the biggest "surprise" was when my engine, fresh from expensive overhaul, did a warranty number - problem was the owner had just retired and broken up the company and the new owners were not required to honour any warranty. In the end they did, with no pushing from me, but aware that word gets around. It did cost me approx $18,000 before I had an engine back and flying as it should have been after it returned from overhaul. That could have killed someone who had not been putting away a bit from each hour's hire. There was the contaminated fuel problem some years back - fortunately I was not caught up in it put a lot out of action and caused the LAME's some cheer.

Now having seen the costings on the Jab I wonder why I stick with GA.

Sue

Flying schools hire partly because the yearn to learn is very seasonal. My experience is that more people decide, late December, to get into it. Not sure if this is because Christmas is finally a bit of time off work to think about where life is going, or because they have hols in January and figure we can do things on short notice, or these are Christmas gifts or New Years resolutions. The instructors want to go home to the folks and avoid the thunderstorms, thermals and long days but the students are lined up at the front door. Also peak season for private hire.

Not sure if this is the case across the board.

The other issue is schools only pay by the hour, so when they are not earning, they are not paying, and when it comes to maintenance someone else gets the big surprises. Large schools with volume prefer to buy their aircraft because the utilisation makes ownership worthwhile. They can also afford to buy new and sell when they have put some hours on rapidly but have few years.

Sue (the view from both sides)

That was the idea of having a meeting place at fly-ins (see the Monto 2011 thread). A point of contact, maybe where you can sit and talk for a while, put your name down - then someone can say "Oh, he was the tall guy in the red shirt - he went that way" I was to meet two forumites at Monto and never did - I didn't know what they looked like. We could have left messages for each other there.

I put my "Flying Vizsla" avatar and name on the car, but no one goes looking at cars.... Saw a Rec Flying enlarged & laminated bumper sticker on a plane ... but Caps would work better.

Sue

It would make more financial sense to start with a second hand aircraft - you will get nearly the same usage with far less borrowings, lower insurance and it will hold its value longer. Getting a RAA registered aircraft will let you use a Level 2 who may be cheaper than a LAME - must be maintained by a Level 2 if it is for training, or get your own Level 2 accreditation and do it yourself.

If you have the ability, buy a sound aircraft that is looking a little sad in the costmetic areas (presumably cheaper) and tart it up with gleaming paint or just a spruce up with some modern decals and upholstery. You'll get near the same hire rate as for the U-Beaut, provided it is reliable. Pay attention to a fully working panel, get rid of cracked, split or other tatty stuff so it gives the impression of a well maintained aircraft.

I have never borrowed to buy an aircraft - it is too much of a risk. But looking over 20 years and 5 aircraft, I think I could have bought them all with the amount I paid the insurers.

Sue - Aviation Mogul

There was a site for Rec Flying at Monto, next to the St.John's Ambo but nothing turned up. The talk on the forum was "didn't know it was you .. " so somewhere to meet and announce who you are, and somewhere for us old things to sit out of the wind / rain / sun would be welcome.

Also thinking about co-locating with other non-commercial entities - Australian Women Pilots, AOPA, for instance. Perhaps we could flog some Rec Flying merchandise - caps, stickers, stubby holders, etc.

I am mulling over the idea of getting an internet provider eg Telstra to provide remote wireless / satellite or what ever connection to show it can be done - after all we have all those wealthy pilots wanting to surf the net on the move - to flog their stuff - and give us free access for 3 days.

I am used to making things happen. It's what I do - Show Society, Progress & Tourism, Scout camps, Chamber of Commerce, and husband & I have enough resources that we could pull it off ourselves. At a push we could bring the portable hangar with room for 2 planes and all the other gear.

Monto - we have only just started :thumb_up: 2011 will be bigger & better.

Sue

I will be calling on Forumites to set up a Rec Flying meeting point (don't leave it to Ian - he's in Melb with enough to do). Between us we should be able to muster a shade/shelter, some chairs, a table and maybe a sign in clipboard so we know who's here. If no one has a tent we could hire one on the way through Biloela.

This is me dreaming ... Could we set up a wireless internet connection with large screen to show the hoi polloi what they are missing & allow the net tragics some surfing - email time.

Other suggestions? Tea/coffee/water? Now we know how cold it can get - bring a pool of warm camping gear for the guys flying in light (tarps doona hot packs etc). A microwave to heat things like the hot packs, the food you bought.

Lets make it happen!

Sue

There are lots of variables to getting an aircraft to earn its way. My experience is with GA aircraft. It depends on the level of risk you are willing to take and how much you want to use it yourself. If you have borrowed then you should insure for total replacement value (to cover your borrowings should it be totalled).

Lowest risk - hire to a select few experienced pilots.

Medium risk - hire to a school for training

High risk - place on line for private / casual hire

Tricks & Traps:-

Considering placing it with a school for training and private hire - there may be an agreement with the school giving them control of the plane including ordering of any maintenance they or their LAME think should be done (I know one school where the LAME was on the Board and made a fortune out of their hire fleet). Usually get paid by the hour; they might promise 50 hours a month but in reality favour other planes and leave yours as a last resort. Alternatively the school might not be very active and your plane under utilised. Get a basic agreement in writing over who controls maintenance, what costs have to be authorised by you etc. Saves lots of angst later.

Running costs fall into Fixed and Variable. Fixed costs happen whether you fly or not (insurance, repayments, interest, rego, hangarage etc). Variable depend on the hours flown - eg the life of the prop, time between overhaul for engines, 50 & 100 hourly services (which become fixed if you do less than 100 hrs and it becomes an annual cost).

Do a budget and work out how many hours you need and how much per hour you need to put aside. Example = The engine lasts 2,200 hrs before overhaul. Yours is now at 1,200 hrs = 1,000 hrs to overhaul (o/h cost guess is $40,000) - put away $40 per hour towards overhaul. Keep doing that for propeller, services, fuel etc; include "profit" margin and margin for inflation and unforeseen dramas. This is your base hourly rate.

Now the hard part - guess how many hours you think the plane will be income producing in a year and divide your fixed costs by that and add your base hourly rate. This is what you should hire it out for. Would you pay that much? If the hourly rate is too high people will vote with their feet and take the other plane.

Putting something away each hour is the key - too many people I know ran their aircraft into the ground and then had nothing in reserve to replace important time expired components.

I had several hire rates. Casual hire for circuits (the tacho goes slow so you might get an hour's flying for 45mins on tacho - so I charge more to cover wear & tear and more fuel). Wet hire of more than an hour - I include fuel, oil & landing fees in that. Dry hire - I provide full tanks and you bring it back full tanks.

Talk to your tax agent - costs for keeping current are deductable if you say you are required to certify hiring pilots or positioning your aircraft, things like AFR, memberships (AOPA, RAAus), maps, ERSA. You need to do things that show it is a legitimate business - advertise, hire agreements and low private usage (alternatively you can hire your own craft back at business rates). Losses are quarantined against future profits if you are a sole trader (talk to your tax agent about this - it doesn't automatically get negatively geared against your wages income.) You may be up for GST too. If you use it in conjunction with your business - eg flying piano tuner / vet / electrician it will be tax deductable and you might not need to hire it out.

Here are some typical costs - and lets say I get 100 hours per year

Fixed Costs

Insurance $3,000

Hangar $2,500

Repayments & interest $5,500

Depreciation (what you need to put away to eventually replace the plane) $5,000

Annual landing fee for home airport $500

= Total $ 16,500/100 = $165 per hour

Variable costs per flying hour

Engine overhaul - $20

50 & 100hr services $40

Prop replacement $8

Oil / Fuel (25litres) $45

= Total $113/hr

Grand total $278 plus fudge factor = $285 per hour - would you pay that much?? No? Either up the hours or reduce some costs - but be realistic - too many people will tell you the 100 hrly is about $500, in reality it is much more because instruments have to be calibrated / repaired, expensive things break, wear out, time expire, ADs from CASA, etc etc.

Another issue I found when I was a plane owner but student pilot at a country airstrip - you cannot sign out the aircraft for another student even if the instructor said it was OK for them to go for a jaunt - it had to be a commercial pilot. Also couldn't do basic maintenance. A Catch 22 for private hire - you take potential hirers for a familiarisation flight before letting them take your steed. If anything goes wrong you are damned if you do (you not being an instructor so what would you know) and damned if you don't (why didn't you check they were OK first?)

We also have an ultralight on hire - or is that a charity we are running .. Over 20 years expenditure exceeded income. The old adage that to make a small fortune in aviation you start with a large fortune and let time take care of it. I'll give up here ...

Sue

Richard (Teckair on this site) instructs in our tail dragger lightwing out of Childers Qld. PM him to see if he is interested in taking a student.

Sue

Some of our fleet, including one old tail dragger pilot. I don't have pictures of the Scout & Turbulent which are not flying - tucked up in a shed awaiting serious work, and the Whisky IV is still just blueprints.

Tricycle Sue

More tail draggers from Monto - most registered VH. Spent too much time looking and talking and not enough snapping.

Sue

We were hoping to fly down but ended up driving this year. We arrived after 5 hours driving Friday afternoon and did a bit of a scenic tour as the airport wasn’t well sign posted. Pulled in and quickly got talking. The $4 mince rolls were good value and tasty and the welcome mat was out. It was obvious from the start that this was going to be a good weekend.

The Monto airstrip is bitumen with a grass cross strip. It has lighting, a small terminal and about 4 hangars. The Polo field is located there which had long drop toilets, showers with hot water and a bar. The aircraft parking was on the polo grounds which were well mowed, level and stone free. Non-aircraft camping was in a treed area at the entrance to the airstrip – no powered sites. We managed to flatten two batteries and had to use the portable generator to get the car started. The site was also having power problems with one of the food stalls resorting to gas to keep some food coming. Ergon seemed to be climbing poles all weekend.

Saturday and planes arrived from everywhere. No doubt I met many forumites but didn’t know it. There were big things happening in town but we didn’t go to look, but it would have been interesting for the non flyers. And we didn’t do the poker run, and didn’t meet anyone who did. Fronted up to the first forum to find the organised schedule had fallen by the wayside – the Aust Women Pilots Assoc’s presenter hadn’t arrived, the next presenter had been called away, another had been involved in an accident, the flying flea hadn’t arrived, so it was all a bit chaotic. Anyway we never really got back there as we spent our time walking around the planes.

The exhibitors were a bit thin on Saturday. We had money to spend but there wasn’t that much to spend it on (he wouldn’t buy me a Cheetar). Bought a few things from the Sky Shop but mainly spent on food & drink. There was a model shop, massage, and the rest were aircraft salesmen. Would like to see a bit more, but I guess it is a bit of a stretch for the good folk in Monto in the midst of their biggest festival to also be at the strip. But I think the exhibitors who came did well.

Saturday night was very cold and we were glad we bought the aircraft trailer – we had tossed the Karasport out and had set up house. A friend of ours camped in a tent and froze. That night did convince some to leave early rather than suffer another night.

Sunday, the locals thought was our biggest day, as they came out in droves and more food vans and stalls set up, but a good number of planes departed. There were vintage cars, motorcycles and many more people. Two friends who were both flying over on Sunday both reneged due to weather and our Lightwing never made it from Childers on Sat. Unfortunately we too had to depart about midday Sunday due to work on Monday.

Summing up – Monto venue was fantastic, would like to see more stalls, Rec Flying meeting point, maybe a warmer time of year or some powered sites so tenters can run a heater. Food was good – really appreciated the “home cooked” stuff, locals were friendly. We are planning for next year already. I am writing to the Council to say how impressed I was – it will help RAAus to argue for some infrastructure improvements for next time.

A few photos.

Sue

Just returned from Monto. What a turn out and what a venue! We arrived Friday afternoon and (due to work commitments) had to leave just after lunch on Sunday.

Met up with other Kara builders/owners, friends, locals etc. Could have stayed longer. Unfortunately with the short notice we couldn't arrange work to stay longer, and three friends and planes who were intending to come, didn't for varying reasons, but swear they will be there next year.

It did get REALLY COLD overnight, so perhaps those of us coming by road or with planes with grunt & luggage area could help out some who might otherwise be sleeping under a tarp.

There was nothing at the Rec Flying spot - so again - perhaps we should volunteer to set up and man a Meet-n-Greet spot for Forumites and not leave it to Management.

All said it was FANTASTIC! Anyone with pictures and stories - post here now!

Sue

Still on a high

Hi Colin

Welcome to the forums. They are a really friendly lot and I must say I have learnt heaps from the discussions and found some niffty things through other's research. So glad to have found it.

Husband & I are also going to Monto, so we will try to catch up then. We were planning to bring the Karasport, C152 and Lightwing but so far only the Lightwing (flown by someone else) will be getting there. The vehicle wedged in front of the Karasport trailer seized its gearbox so it is now a horrible job getting it out to get to the trailer. Still a faint glimmer of hope for the C152. Unfortunately we're coming off night shift but plan to be there Friday night (have to check the program). Will be good to put faces to names. We are camping at the airstrip.

Catch you there.

Sue & Alf

My experience with Shell these last three weeks - I found a Shell carnet card at our airstrip - valid and availalble for Any aircraft. The Australian card says "if found ... return to Shell .. London UK." Not terribly helpful as that wasn't a full address either.

No Shell servo around here so I got on the website and sent a message to them that I had found it and wanted to know how to post it back to them - they didn't have an address for the return of lost cards. A week & half and no answer so I got up the pdf Shell Aviation directory with the 13 phone number - rang, chose the aviation options. Spoke to an operator who said he could not put me through to the aviation section. Couldn't tell me what to do with the card - took all the particulars and said someone would phone back. This is now next week. No response by phone, email, or post. So I am going to post it to the nearest Shell Aviation facility so I can off load my responsibility. Meanwhile someone out there is cardless. Hasn't given me any confidence in them at all.

I have been with Air BP for many years and very satisfied. They used to levy an account fee of about $45 pa but it is years since they charged me that. The card is useful because it is much cheaper than getting the operator to dispense the same fuel into the plane - the price on the bowser is the operator's price but card price is lower I have been paying between $1.55 to $1.61 for avgas in the last 2 months. Our drum price is $2.95/litre.

Sue

It was an advert - go to youtube and search for "Caught on tape plane crash in the beach" for one rendition of the full advert for a travel company. There's several more in there.

Sue

Help to understand our mates across the ditch.

http://www.mediaworks.co.nz/Portals/0/Radio/MWR%20How%20to%20Speak%20NZ%20-%20T2-2009.pdf

This takes a while to load - make a cuppa if you're on dial-up.

Just back from the CASA seminar on the 3 June changes where they covered this issue (who gives way in the circuit). The CASA guy said the circuit has right of way over anyone joining, eg straight in, joining base etc must give way to anyone already established in the circuit. So someone on late downwind about to turn base has right of way over someone joining base (who has to slow down or orbit or rethink his circuit entry).

However, they also read out something from the book of words that RECOMMENDS that lower class aircraft give way to higher class eg RPTs where safe and suitable to do so (my recollection of the blurb). I didn't get a chance to get the chapter and verse.

Sue

We were out at Childers last month and saw Chinoock 10-003. It's still flying and doing plenty of hours (unlike our Scout which is still in the shed awaiting work). As noted earlier 10-001 was reassigned to a later aircraft so this is now the second oldest 95-10. There were a lot of 25- registered Thrusters that have older registration.

Great to see these early types still punching holes in the air.

Sue

It feels like a favoured uncle has passed away, even though I think I have only seen him once or twice at Natfly, I know and love him through this forum. I hope others will take up the "greeting" role - it makes new members feel special and settles them into the forum family.

Farewell Good Friend

Sue