kaz3g

One student has alleged:

“Soar has taught me how to fly, some instructors were EXCELLENT and of course with every "community" there is always a few bad apples who practically will fail you for not having the optional clip on tie as a part of the uniform that's non compulsory in the eyes of the OPS manual, they did teach me how to fly but at what expense? I will tell you; I have a student loan that is close to $80k with an interest rate labelled as "index of inflation" at 1.8%-1.9% every new financial year on top...between $1440 - $1620 in fees on top of the loan you already have(depending who or which department you ask in the government), what do I have? practically a useless RPL and you know what, that licence doesn't even have CTA & CTR nor a flight review to activate it and be usable. what about the RA-AUS RPC then? well that's a whole different kettle of fish to boil, you guys wouldn't know what the hell is RA-AUS and what is it doing in a controlled aerodrome such as Moorabbin, well I will save you the troubles so you don't have to beat around the bush (casa EX69/18). so you might ask "HOW?" well its very simple. I got sucked in. I was one of those originals promised to fly the 172's and the Foxbat as the old mate who could sell ice to an Eskimo (those people know who I'm talking about, cant compromise anyone's identity), he was pitching the course at the time told me this would be temporary, so I believed as you would, they say ignorance is no excuse; well neither is deception.

But 80k and not even a licence I can use unless I pay out of my pocket to get a flight review and having to pay out of my pocket for CTA & CTR just to use the damn RPL is not right... I'm sure there is HEAP's of people who went to other flight schools and had an EASY pass. yes I said EASY pass. because we(the students that are in the group) developed a paranoia towards failure. we have to repeat whole flight again and again.”

It appears to me that a student who is up for $80k for an RPL without even Nav and CTA has paid an awful lot of money for very little. It also appears to me that what has been provided is not what was promised (a CPL).

I understand there is a VCAT hearing underway as well as the ASQA investigation. Very embarrassing for Box Hill TAFE and I wonder if the multi-millionaire founder of SOAR will ever be held to account should adverse findings result.

From the Australian....

Australia’s biggest recipient of taxpayer-funded student loans for trainee pilots has been stripped of its authority to offer aviation courses, leaving 400 students in the lurch.

Box Hill Institute was audited by the Australian Skills Quality Authority last year following a raft of complaints from students about course delivery and a very low graduation rate.

ASQA is the overseeing authority for VET student loans.

After the audit, flight training provided by Soar Aviation was suspended for a week and students informed of possible minor changes to their courses.

But in a letter distributed to students of Box Hill on Tuesday, aviation manager Adrian Lea said as a result of a decision by ASQA, the institute was no longer authorised to deliver the diploma of aviation from January 30.

“We understand this will be disappointing for you and we are urgently clarifying the ramifications of ASQA’s decision for our aviation students,” Mr Lea wrote.

“We are investigating seeking a reconsideration of the decision by ASQA however it is unclear whether such a request would be successful. In any case, the fact remains that the Diploma of Aviation (including its individual clusters) needs to be discontinued with effect from January 30, 2020.”

He went on to say that it was his “strong recommendation that students did not incur any further costs or fees in relation to enrolled units”, such as further flight training.

Department of Employment statistics for the six months to June 30, 2019, showed more than $7m worth of loans had been paid for 289 enrolments in the commercial pilot licence course at Box Hill.

In 2018, more than $11m in loans was paid for 402 enrolments, but only six students graduated.

A statement from Soar Aviation said its board “strongly refuted the findings of ASQA and the decision to revoke Box Hill Institute’s approval to provide third party practical training in conjunction with Soar Aviation.

“Many of ASQA’s conclusions are based on errors of fact and Soar Aviation is considering the appropriate avenues to maintain its registration,” the statement said.

“Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute recently reviewed all procedures that are performed under Commercial Pilot Licence aviation training to ensure they comply with all relevant Civil Aviation legislation.”

The statement went to say 70 people had obtainted their Diploma of Aviation under the Box Hill program.

“A further 400 students are enrolled and part way through their course. We will do everything we can to ensure they have the opportunity to complete their training and successfully gain their qualifications.”

Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute came under renewed scrutiny late last year after the second serious plane crash in 14-months.

On December 12, 2019, a student conducting a solo training flight was seriously injured when his Bristell S-LSA crashed during a “touch and go” manoeuvre at Moorabbin Airport.

On October 5, 2018, another student was left a paraplegic and his trainer injured when their training flight in a Bristell S-LSA went wrong near Stawell in Victoria.

Both incidents remain the subject of Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigations.

Mr Lea’s letter to students said Box Hill would do its best to support them through this period and navigate available options.

Robyn Ironside

Students alleging they have expended $80k under Vet Fee Help and haven’t achieved a PPL, let alone a CPL. Huge debt and nothing to show for it.

There is a VCAT heading in progress and I’m trying to get the case number.

kaz

From the Australian Newspaper yesterday...

Australia’s biggest recipient of taxpayer-funded student loans for trainee pilots has been stripped of its authority to offer aviation courses, leaving 400 students in the lurch.

Box Hill Institute was audited by the Australian Skills Quality Authority last year following a raft of complaints from students about course delivery and a very low graduation rate.

ASQA is the overseeing authority for VET student loans.

After the audit, flight training provided by Soar Aviation was suspended for a week and students informed of possible minor changes to their courses.

But in a letter distributed to students of Box Hill on Tuesday, aviation manager Adrian Lea said as a result of a decision by ASQA, the institute was no longer authorised to deliver the diploma of aviation from January 30.

“We understand this will be disappointing for you and we are urgently clarifying the ramifications of ASQA’s decision for our aviation students,” Mr Lea wrote.

“We are investigating seeking a reconsideration of the decision by ASQA however it is unclear whether such a request would be successful. In any case, the fact remains that the Diploma of Aviation (including its individual clusters) needs to be discontinued with effect from January 30, 2020.”

He went on to say that it was his “strong recommendation that students did not incur any further costs or fees in relation to enrolled units”, such as further flight training.

Department of Employment statistics for the six months to June 30, 2019, showed more than $7m worth of loans had been paid for 289 enrolments in the commercial pilot licence course at Box Hill.

In 2018, more than $11m in loans was paid for 402 enrolments, but only six students graduated.

A statement from Soar Aviation said its board “strongly refuted the findings of ASQA and the decision to revoke Box Hill Institute’s approval to provide third party practical training in conjunction with Soar Aviation.

“Many of ASQA’s conclusions are based on errors of fact and Soar Aviation is considering the appropriate avenues to maintain its registration,” the statement said.

“Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute recently reviewed all procedures that are performed under Commercial Pilot Licence aviation training to ensure they comply with all relevant Civil Aviation legislation.”

The statement went to say 70 people had obtainted their Diploma of Aviation under the Box Hill program.

“A further 400 students are enrolled and part way through their course. We will do everything we can to ensure they have the opportunity to complete their training and successfully gain their qualifications.”

Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute came under renewed scrutiny late last year after the second serious plane crash in 14-months.

On December 12, 2019, a student conducting a solo training flight was seriously injured when his Bristell S-LSA crashed during a “touch and go” manoeuvre at Moorabbin Airport.

On October 5, 2018, another student was left a paraplegic and his trainer injured when their training flight in a Bristell S-LSA went wrong near Stawell in Victoria.

Both incidents remain the subject of Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigations.

Mr Lea’s letter to students said Box Hill would do its best to support them through this period and navigate available options.

Robyn Ironside

YCAR?

 

I've been overseas for two months now and boy do I miss flying back home ?

 

Yes, that’s Carnarvon with the Gascoyne River flowing under the sands to the sea.

when it runs in flood it can be huge. I saw the fuel pumps at the servo near the main highway with just the very tops showing one time. The irrigation blockies pull their pumps out when they hear the river is coming down.

I remember departing there one evening, must be 40 years ago, in a very heavily laden C172....not saying more except we waited until Flight Service had closed! A little younger a much sillier then ?

 Didn't a bunch of retreads who survived Honda CB750s Z1s and GS1000s come back after their kids left and write off things like K1200RS ( ssses) and ZZRs in the 1990s?

 

They might have! Or the ZRX1100..the 100 hp hooligan?

Just had a look at the camera and appears very murky. Suggest you check the before deciding and after you get the latest wx.

Valid point, Turbs.

 

Not everyone may be able to do this. 

 

So all is right in the world; our betters set the rules and they are always right?

 

Can you see no scope for change to allow small aircraft to avoid the Yowie country west of Coffs and Willie?

 

it seems crazy to me that the VFR Coastal route isn’t available. There’s nothing complicated about asking for a clearance and it’s not like you would be asking to enter an incredibly busy CTA like SYDNEY. 

I find the Controllers are always lovely and helpful....especially after I’ve told them I’m as old as the aeroplane ?

Congratulations on the privacy success.

i made the same complaint against CASA but it was rejected “because they are acting in accordance with the regulation.”

My argument was that CASA wrote a regulation for itself but that this is trumped by the Privacy Act. A regulation inconsistent with an Act should always fail but they decided differently.

perhaps I’ll have another go.

following the rejection of my original privacy complaint against RAA by the OAIC,  with help from members of this forum, my appeal has been successful, & my complaint recognized.

 

It will now go the the final resolution [in approx 7 - 9 months]  Meanwhile RAA has been requested to negotiate with me for a settlement.

 

This is where I'd appreciate some feed back from all members affected by this.

 

I would like:  a/  an apology from the RAA board, esp Mr Monk, with some assurance that future policy decisions by the board be more transparent, with input from the members.

 

                    b/ the privacy breach be closed immediately & not re-opened without members consent.

 

[ yes maybe I am in dreamland but one can only work toward a positive result. 

 

However this does leave an important issue,  due to, RAA's abysmal results of negotiations with AAA,  -  that of landing fees.

 

If a landing fee is clearly charged, & you land at that field, you are obliged to pay it,  I don't think there is any argument there.

 

Whilst there is  valid controversy, on councils charging for use of public  airfields, and the insidious use of Avdata, a third party cashing in on those fee's.  this is a secondary argument,  lets not muddy the waters with that just yet.

 

I really need some input & constructive ideas, for an alternate solution, to this issue.

 

One member has suggested, to have RAA pass on the invoices, as in past years,  it became to cumbersome and expensive then,  but with the digital age &  RAA having upgraded it's systems somewhat,  this may now be feasible.

 

While constructive suggestions are welcome from anybody,  this thread is primarily for affected RAA members. So  please don't clog this forum with old rehashed arguments about RAA flyers paying landing fees,   CONSTRUCTIVE  is the primary goal here.  This issue has to be solved.

 

I think another thread perhaps, or latter in this one we could concentrate on passive ways of rewarding councils without charges,  followed by councils with reasonable charges, & penalizing councils with high charges,  or avdata.  we spend a substantial amount of money in towns, when touring,  directing where it goes could be a worthwhile start.   But that is for  later,  lets concentrate on the urgent issue at hand.

 

Thanks you,  Circuitsun.

 

Why doesn’t RAAus act as agent for airport owners the same as AvData and collect the fees paid to them? That way the profit goes back to the pilots, albeit indirectly.

[ATTACH]42302[/ATTACH]

 

I pulled the Divisional results for this year's Federal Election

 

Clive had enough primary votes to possibly sway the results in Bass and Chifley, and most of the other winnning margins were in the 20,000 + votes, so he'd have only been picking up scraps in preferences.

 

I'd say his influence on the election was close to nil.

 

He was bagging both of the major parties, I'd call his campaign Institutional Advertising, no real message, just Clive, Clive, Clive, Clive ad nauseum. He's a marketer so he's smart enough to know that wouldn't get any real political traction, but it would raise his profile.

 

In most seats his candidates received about 3000 votes, about what you and I would get if we nominated, then sat back and didn't campaign.

 

I don't know where his coal mine is, but if it's in Queensland it would think it would be a Labor government approving the permit.

 

I rather think the negativity of his campaign impacted Shorten’s chances by detracting from his vote; probably more than he positively assisted the LNP.

the Commonwealth’s Environment Department has to sign off projects of this magnitude.

Palmer spent $60m to ensure LNP elected and got the permit for his coal mine worth billions soon after. If it walks like a duck...

I was wondering ...

 

If you were building a plane and intended to use an unusual engine for a plane, hypothetically, a 1000 cc 4-cylinder engine from a Morris Minor, how would you determine the pitch and diameter of the propeller you could attache to it?

 

I reckon I’d pitch it as far as I could!

loved my MM and Mini but definitely not suitable for aviation...all revs, no grunt, too heavy, ....better off with a VW or other boxer motor.

I guess that would make it difficult.  You were expected to solo in about 8 hours but you didn't have to queue at the holding point or worry about radio procedures. All over field took care of the crosswind issues. Nev

 

Yes, he took 15 hours to solo and was really panicking. They say he never did learn to do it gently but his ability to hit the enemy was legend. His performance at Gurney Field, Milne Bay, was magnificent and the khaki jobs and Yanks there had nothing but praise for him and his leadership.

I have Bluey’s biographer by Paul Brickhill (Dam Busters author) and Bluey nearly didn’t make it into the airforce because he used to round out to land his Tiger Moth about 15’ above ground. Every landing was a crash.

Hope the Kelpie was at home.

In my gliding career, I have done hundreds of forced landings.

 

Me too ?

Around 1000 and never broke anything other than the winch cable thanks to great training by Peter Johnson and Mike Valentine.

Interesting...FGN is 4 NM south of YMEN and inside CTR.

The rules say a drone must not be flown:

• closer than 30 m to people — other than those helping to fly or navigate your drone
   
  
• over or above people at any time or height
   
  
• in a way that creates a hazard to another person, aircraft or property
   
  
• near emergency situations
   
  
• in prohibited or restricted airspace
   
  

Guess Police are exempt, hey?

To digress - I am fascinated by the concept of :

 

• Lawful killing - lawful as determined by the authority of the mighty, imposing their will on those that would dissent.
   
  

 

Such as the new “guideline” for VICPol Officers instructing they shoot to kill drivers endangering the public. In my view this puts a huge burden on ordinary officers who must still meet the test of reasonable and proportionate force.

 

• Summary execution of a person, the west has designated a terrorist leader and no doubt his followers would see as a freedom fighter with truth & justice on his side.
   
  

 

War is hell.

 

Kaz

Seems to me the Vic police would be better spending the tax payer dollars on doing something about the corruption that seems to be pervading the upper echelons of their black (who thought that was a good idea? )shirted organisation.

 

We have a Commissioner who apparently thought it a good idea to pervert the course of justice.

https://vfrg.casa.gov.au/operations/night-vfr/aircraft-equipment-for-night-vfr/

plenty of older aircraft flying at night without TSOd GPS.

Well you're certainly not talking about our ATSB. It certainly has a cap to its budget, and remember it has to investigate land and sea accidents as well as air, but its false to say it is politically driven or controlled.  It's not legally possible these days for any organisation to say what used to be said up until the end of the 1970s, and people are critical of them for that, and I certainly miss the Macarthur Job reports, where they were able to get to the guts of a fataility and report that, for example the pilot frequented the club lounge, and was known for boasting that he could fly in cloud, had done it on several occasions, this one, with the rock filled cloud being his last. It gave you the real reason, and the specific thing to avoid. Having been called in to one investigation (which they picked up from my comment on social media)  and asked to give evidence, I can attest to their clinical, compartmental, and very thorough process.

 

I think I mentioned previously that I took Mac for his last flight. Did this at a Coldstream Memorial Day for the original aerodromes owner, Jimmy Doake.

Mac climbed into the Auster, despite hips and knees, and accepted the chance to take the controls once airborne. He flew so perfectly I felt very aware of my less capable demonstration of skills. He was a lovely guy and it was djp who brought him out for the day.

Vale Mac Job.

Just as a matter of interest, do you use the indicators?

 

Left, right and hazard...also the little ones on the instrument panel that regularly tell me something else has broken.

Radiator is cross-flow aluminium with welded plastic header on the side and this is where the problems occur.

kaz

Thruster's innocent.

 

So was Bill Posters but they said they’d prosecute him anyway.

Take it easy, there's by no means an epidemic going on, just one aircraft needing a leak fixed.

 

Yes, if an engine has a radiator is CAN spring a leak, but then we have 19.5 million cars in Australia right now with radiators.

 

Yes ancillaries often cause engines to fail.

 

Yes how one is installed can compromise any engine.

 

Yes, if you leave the radiator cap off you can compromise the engine.

 

Yes is you leave the prop bolts loose you can compromise the engine.

 

Yes if you put diesel in the fuel tak you can compromise the engine.

 

How far do you want to go with this hypothetical theoryfest?

 

My bloody BMW has had two radiators and is in the workshop having a coolant leak (and other things) attended to. Lovely to drive but need extra boot space to carry around the emergency maintenance money.