naremman

What about those aspiring Auster drivers who have been lead away from them weeping and wailing!!

I'm a clod foot enough, without facing the challenge of those heel brakes.

Had a mate who had a J2 Arrow, with a C75 engine and would get a 65 Knot cruise, going slightly downhill. Give him his due though, his mastery of that machine was something to behold. When Reg and Shirley Adkins used to bring their Tiger Moth up to the Bruce Rock fly ins, Reg was delighted that he something to pass in the Tiger!!

Nah Ian, I would rather abide by the motto of the Ulysses Motor Cycle gang:"GROWING OLD, DISGRACEFULLY".

As I mature I don't mind getting fatter, having hair face the dilemna of going grey or falling out, or slowing down, but the thing that really gets up my goat is losing my visual acuity. Requiring a pair of specs lock wired on is a pain. I suppose it is a reasonable compromise in order to maintain a Class 2 medical, but I don't like it!!

It certainly is a relevant article, and given that the mature end of the spectrum are present in spades within the aviation community, should invoke some comments.

Interesting that the C180 pilot, who probably faced the highest degree of difficulty score, was the bloke who appeared to handle the conditions best.

Aileron into wind does not seem to be applied to good effect in too many landings. In 30 years of 172 ownership I have found it nearly impossible to screw in too much aileron in a severe xwind.

How many times did the landing aircraft end up with only the out of wind main wheel as the only point of contact with terra firma? On the very few times that I tried this configuration during my training, my instructor was nearly apoplectic through severe hypertension. I reasoned that it was beneficial to avoid this configuration at all costs!!

Tomo, I endorse your comments re full flap for xwind landings. The sooner that it is pinned firmly on the deck the better.

Some great footage, and the running commentary was at times classic understatement.

The first assessment has been around a while and I had the same view as yourself.What do you mean "confused"? I scored slightly higher than average on the same three items.

David, am greatly reassured that I share similar tendencies with you.

In the circumstance that either of us stack an aeroplane, and survive the event, we will be easily identified as the one who will be greatly concerned that we allowed our Macho and Self Confident components overwhelm the Worry factor!!

I recently had lunch with some people who I also see at aviator's funerals and some-one made the comment that "we" often say that it was no surprise. A pity that "we" didn't tell that to the person earlier as it wouldn't take much thought to put them in one or more boxes of the five hazardous attitudes.

The second assessement was more appealing, and I feel relevant. Left me a bit confused though. The three above average scores were: Macho, Worry and Self Confident!!

I think I recall my Flying Instructor of old having a saying: "upon turning on the Master Switch, he commenced a sequence of events over which he had little or no control."

This thread opens a whole heap of memories.

Longest single trip was in a Airtourer 100 taking 55 hours to depart from and return to the Central Wheatbelt in WA to Toowoomba, via Victoria twice, and incorporating the Airtourer Association Convention in Parkes in 1980. Avgas at <50 cents a litre was a real bonus.

Best backside bender was Ayers Rock to Bruce Rock, via Forrest and Kalgoorlie in an August day, first light to nearly last light. 940 Nm with a 95 knot cruise.

Best distance in a day was Mildura to Bruce Rock in a C172M, which i think is about 1210 Nm.

Craziest journey was to accomodate a mate who purchased an Airtourer 100 in Sydney and wanted it relocated back to WA in 1985. Two and a half days on a Deluxe Coachlines (remember them) to get to Sydney, a day spare in Sydney, and another two and a half days to get back home. The coach seat was a lot tougher on the backside than the Airtourer seat!! If I remebember correctly I gave my mate $5 change from the $500 he gave me for the whole trip.

Under ideal circunstances light aircraft are great at chewing up distance. Under less than ideal circumtances. lets just say that can they be frustrating and character building!

Hi All I am planing a flight from Cairns to Jandakot I am having trouble finding fuel between Ayers Rock and Kalgoorie is there list out there of strips-A/fields with fuel that are not listed in Shell BP Mobil as they don't cater for the outback run by community/local council/ local supplier etc do you know of a list fuel stops out there I am flying a J230

Did the then Ayers Rock-Forrest direct in an Airtourer back in 1984. There is a whole heap of nothingness on that journey, and a good pair of boots might be handy. Was mighty relieved to see the hangar at Forrest appear on the nose after four hours over that country!!

Sounds like a great trip. Have fun, and keep us posted.

Had the good fortune of doing an AFR with Poteroo in his magnificient C170A just before he and the aircraft parted company.

Poteroo is out of the "wheeler" camp, wheras I was out of the "3 pointer" camp, which in essence meant that neither of us was wrong, but the "creative confict" was robust!!

I quite happily align myself in Facthunters camp and favour 3 pointers.

My first tailwheel experience was in a Chippie, and by pure ass nailed a presentable wheeler at my first attempt at landing. Given the challenge from the back seat to "do it again", I in complete ignorance repeated it. The explosion from the back seat was memorable, and has not been forgotten, even 35 years hence. I took me another 2 hours banging and nearly crashing the poor old Chippie til I had some tenuous hold of the concept of a "3 pointer".

Progressing to the Tiger Moth and C170/180 were made easier in my opinion by having a sound "3 pointer" technique.

There will never be a good outcome to the respective merits of both persuasions. At the risk of invoking Facthunters wrath: There are are only two types of taildragger pilot; those who have, and those who are about too!! I, somewhat luckily, remain in the camp where the backend has yet to pass the front. just!!

I showed the original post to my wife, and suggested that she print it out and pin it to the staff noticeboard of the school where she teaches with a 100% female staff. Whislt she laughed at the original post, she firmly declined the latter challenge!!

Now I know why she asks me to get cash out for her whenever I go near an ATM!!

I think ya boss must be paying ya too much Tomo to be flittin' around in a C206. In my day we we were lucky to scounge enough to get 30 mins in a Cessna 150 every week, even if it was $15 an hour!! Super petrol was 48 cents a gallon, but car still stayed in garage. Beer was $2 a jug, but we stayed thirsty.

Since Tomo opened this thread on Monday we have had posting on physics, aeronautical theory, and many examples gleaned the hard way through experience, and being fortunate enough to share the knowledge.

Whilst the numbers of posters has probably not exceeded 40, those who who have followed this thread would be many times more, and what would be the perspective of someone who is the initial stages of attaining RAA Pilot Certification make of the progress of the thread?

ALL aircraft are capable of stalling, with varying degrees of severity, and each with their own quirks. High standards of instruction are decidely beneficial to making old pilots. Taking oneself out of the comfort zone with a generous altitude buffer to explore the extremes of an aircraft has no downside. The times when we require superior recovery skill are when height, airspeed and knowledge are not in abundance!!.

I have ticked the "like" box for posts from both Facthunter and Turbo throught this thread for their incisive thoughts.

Is anyone capable of an effective summary as a consequence of this discussion that provides the one gem that saves a least one neck?

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I have developed a diabolical air exercise for them where they have their eyes closed and I fly the aeroplane quite comfortably to where we are in a vertical dive at low airspeed but stalled. I hand over, they open their eyes and notice the obvious - we are in a vertical dive so need to pull out. The situation invariably and suddenly gets much worse because they have not identified that the aeroplane was stalled. Few, if any, of the symptoms of an approaching stall existed.

I think I know where you are going on this one DJP. The key element here is the angle between the relative airflow and the chord line of the wing, irrespective of airspeed or where the nose is pointing.

Those of us with aerobatics experience probably have gained an insight to this on the occcasions when in the latter parts of a loop or stall turn, the windscreen is full of green and we have then overcooked the back pressure, followed by some form of protestation from the airframe.

Most of my aeros have been done in Airtourers and the buffet over the tailplane is usually the initial indicator that the limits are being approached. Chucking a roll of toilet paper out, with a good amount of height under you, and going streamer cutting is a great way to establishing the limits of both the pilot and aeroplane.

The whole method of stall training should be reviewed. The "classic" S&L, power off, hold the nose up, probably lulls people into a false sense of security. Most aircraft are set up to be docile in the stall, by not having enough back elevator effect to get, and hold, a full stall.. They can ALL bite however, Just get one a little tail heavy and in a steep turn with a little top rudder and the whole scene can go pearshaped quickly. ( Usually turning final from a base where there is a tailwind ) or such. Nev

We could add mustering to the activities that have given some pretty dramatic examples of how ugly the stall/spin scenario can get. I still recall the images of some Cessna 150s that have "candled" mustering.

Out of interest, out of the people in this thread that have answered, who flies in aircraft without stall warnings? If you did your training in an aircraft without a stall warning would you recognise the symtons as easily (particularly if you are low hours)?The Tiger Moth is classic in this department. What you hear and feel leaves one in no doubt as to what is approaching. A Tiger with the slats unlocked has an unmistakeable sound hwen the slats deploy.

 

In the Airtourer the stall warning horn only works with flap deployed, as it would drive you nuts in aerobatics. The horn is a circa 1960's Holden car horn and does it go off. In the flapless configuration the feedback comes initially from the tailplane with light buffet occurring, progressing through to some robust "oil canning" in more extreme turns or aeros. Elevator authority still remains pretty sound despite the sound effects.

Who says the stick has to be back for the aircraft to be stalled?

You are not incorrect Mazda, but in the run of the mill RAA aircraft a stall induced by a whole heap of forward stick is probably going to be pretty ugly.

Can remember being briefed for a Royal Aero Club WA Aerobatic comp by Squadron Leader Don Pollock when a half reverse Cuban was part of the sequence. He stated that while Mr Arresti required the right way up and inverted component of the upward 45 to be equal in distance, but glancing around at the apron and seeing a collection of Aerobats, Airtourers and Tiger Moths present, he said he was very comfortable to be on the ground judging in case anybody got too keen on pushing the upwards inverted!!

To pick up on the thread. How can you tell when an aircraft is stalled? In some aircraft not too easily. I have flown a few where they have just mushed about with no well defined nose drop. The Tiger Moth and Airtourer are both out of the textbook for stalling. My experience in J160 and Foxabt both, in the flapless configuration, did not produce a defined nose drop no matter how aggressive you approached it, In a Warrior, if you ignored the VSI, you would call stalling a non event.

I suppose as a traditionalist, any good trainer should display an identifiable stall. All other aircraft should at least have a stall where a pilot is aware that the airflow over the wing is disturbed, lest we run the risk of the ground coming up to smite thee.

I grew up in a generation when the motivation to get spelling and grammar right was avoiding an impact upon thy backside. No such motivation exists today.

I observe the frustration of my wife, of a similar vintage to myself, attempting to teach and mentor her students in an environment of social media where the basics are so easily discarded.

My late first wife was a journalist and she used to read the parish pump newspaper with a red highlighter in hand. It was astounding how much of the copy would be highlighted red!! "Duel Baptisms" was the absolute clanger. Baptismal water at 10 paces!!

She was inclined to "cite" this publication for getting site and sight wrong in three consecutive editions.

A dog-eared copy of the Macquarie Dictionary is a permanent fixture alongside the computer.

Yeah bit of a worry ain't I... what's even more a worry is that I can remember these sort of one liners!

Find a LAME that keeps Victa Airtourers in the air. Pop rivets have kept the old Victas together for close on 50 years!!

Well I believe I was even smarter....I was married with three children when my wife took a job at the Guernsey Airport ( I built our house next to the airport ) as a cleaner so that I could learn to fly.I was of course working full time plus a part time job driving taxis in the evening to support the family, but her entire income she dedicated to my flying and has continued through our married life and

contributed to the various aircraft we have owned. Even though we are now on pensions, she still saves up to buy me things which are aviation related, headset, Plb etc. etc.

 

Very happily married Alan..

In a test of memory, I recall an incident agout 40 years ago when the pilot of a Baron had a wedgie some through the screen while on final to Barrow Island. The pilot landed safely, though I think he lost the sight in one eye. That was not the end. The wedgie survived the hit, and was keen on retribution.

I still chuckle about an incident on the 1984 Airtourer Simpson Desert Flight. Approaching Birdsville Stan Tilley decided to descend and check out the birdlike on the Diamantina River.

Descent followed by a quick ascent (well as quick as a 115 Hp Airourer will allow), as Stan was not keen on a pelican vs Airtourer collision that far from Hobart. Bonnie's input was not recorded!!

In a test of memory, I recall about 40 years the pilot of a Baron have a wedgie come through the screen on final at Barrow Island, clobbering the pilot. The pilot subsequently landed safely, though I think he ended up losing the sight in one eye. That was not the end of it. The wedgie was not dead, and was keen on retribution.

I still chuckle at an incident of the 1984 Airtourer Simpson Desert Flight. Approaching Birdsville Stan Tilley decided to descend to check out the birdlife on the Diamantina River. Descent followwd by a very smart ascent (well as quick a climb away in a 115 Hp Airtourer) as Stan decided a pelican vs Airtourer collision that far from Hobart was not prudent!! Dunno what Bonnie's input would have been at that point.

What great footage. Living in the Central Wheatbelt of WA we often get the opportunities to get close to Wegde-tailed Eagles. I will never tire of looking at them. Today I was raking hay and had a solo wedgie stalking some unfortunate quail. Brutally efficient.

For quite a while a few years I had a wedgie that made a home in a mallee tree, that had a rabbit warren close by, just past lift of point on Western departures on my farm airstrip. We both experienced a number of close encounters. No height and bugger all airspeed made a few of the meetings especially interesting.

Two years ago I was boom spraying adjoining a paddock with lambing ewes. I observed a wedgie swoop on an abandoned merino lamb and attempt a take off. At about 2' AGL it realized that it had exceeded Max All Up Weight and jettisoned poor lamb. I walked across to the lamb thinking that the experience had probably not done it a lot of good, and was surprised to see that other some minor lacerations all was well with the unfortunate ovine. Took it back to join the wife's five other pet lambs, Was promply named "Wedgie". The good news is that this year "Wedgie" presented us with a beaut ewe lamb. Talk about a close encounter.

Sage advice. My late first wife who was a journo, had the philosophy of never saying anything in any form about anybody, that you were not prepared to say to their face.

Tomo, have you worked out how to expalain to our urban cousins how the nice looking images of those bovines are going to end up on foam trays at Coles or Woolies?