Aldo

Do you guys recommend buying the Private VFR plan for OzRunways this stage or should I leave it until sometime later? Thanks

Enjoy your flying future.

Aldo

Interesting comments about spin recovery. Prompted my recollections about my PPL in the UK some 40 years ago. Spin recovery was part of training and on your General Flight Test the examiner put the aircraft into a spin so you could demonstrate you could recover. Not taught in Australia for some reason.

Spins were part of the syllabus when I learnt to fly in the 80's and I did mine in a 152 Aerobat and I continue to practice them both solo and dual, the dual practice is good because someone can put you into the spin while you have your hands off the controls, feet off the rudder, head down and eyes closed then you have to recover, first port of call, turn coordinator, airspeed and VSI those three will tell you if it is a spin or spiral dive and recover accordingly.

For some reason people are afraid of spinning an aircraft, spinning if you put it there intentionally is no big deal, spinning if you put it there unintentionally to me means you shouldn't be flying, it is a major deal and will probably kill you.

Aldo

So it reads like it was a deliberately induced spin from about 4500' . No mention in the prelim report of the position or condition of the yoke. Did the student freeze on the controls and keep the stick pulled back?

I can't verify the below but it is what I have heard from a very reliable source.

Aircraft is said to have conducted a low level pass of the airstrip and clipped the windsock in the process

Bridgy

I wouldn’t say anything but answer the questions with a yes or no no more than that, you are not helping yourself to elaborate if not required.

I know airline transport pilots that go to doctors in Singapore and New Zealand to stay away from the prying eyes of CASA.

Tread carefully

Aldo

If that was the Bob Hoover we know, and it sounds like him, that's two more crashes added to his total of dozens; I must rsearch it one day, because it's around 30, and way more than any other pilot I know of.Having said that, I still rate him the best in the world.

If not the best as close as you can get to being the best I don't know of anyone any better.

Aldo

Depends on what you are flying, 200 kts and you could include Melbourne, 100 kts and you could easily get to Mackay/Townsville/Longreach just depends on where you want to go. If it was me I would find the slowest, cheapest thing with wings and fly that you are only looking for hours and they all count.

Aldo

Thanks Aldo,That was me.

 

It was very distressing. Investigations continue.

 

Robert

Glad to hear that you got back on the ground ok, knew you were short of fuel and was hoping that you were concentrating on flying your aircraft, didn't want to ask too many questions but just enough to let centre know what was happening and get them to start to mobilize things.

I hope you are going ok and have some people with you tonight, you did an excellent job this afternoon.

Aldo

I hope you also have someone to share with tonight, Aldo. Well done today.Kaz

Aldo

So sad, my thoughts tonight are with the tug pilot who saw it happen, I was flying into Toowoomba this afternoon and heard the mayday call made on the 126.7 CTAF frequency there was no response to the call and he made a second call, I responded to the second call as he sounded extremely distressed saying a glider had just gone nose first into the ground, I relayed the call to BNE centre it took several minutes (or it seemed that long) for the pilot to be able to tell me where he was and who he was so I was then able to pass that onto centre who must have then got emergency services notified and underway.

I hope someone is looking after him tonight, also condolences to the family of the glider pilot.

Aldo

Where is this? Is there an instructor I can get so I can do my RPC to PPL in it?

Allan

Me too but I think somehow there was a missing digit i.e. 1 in front of the 4.

Not at all, I'm using it so that my wife can get back up to speed.

Aldo

I would have thought $165/hour for a drifter is a bit steep. I'm able to get a 172 (old it may be) with impeccable maintenance for $40/hour dry, not RA I know but you can always go GA at those rates.

Aldo

Same shit, same result, different participant

When will we learn???

The pilot is OK (I was talking to him yesterday) but the chopper is a little worse for wear. Strong winds were not the cause, according to the pilot as he was approaching his home a line of rain and failing light prevented him from being able to get there so he decided to put down in a paddock about a mile from his home, as he approached the ground (about a foot off the ground) the entire inside of the cabin fogged over making it a total white out from inside the cab. Being so close to the ground and having power lines in the vicinity he elected to put it on the ground, but he had some left drift as he did so and as the skid contacted the ground it dug in and flipped it over.

Aldo

I don't agree with your first answer - the owner doesn't have any idea what kind of aircraft will be flown in, nor what experience the pilot might have

You don't have to agree with either answer, but as Orchid Beach is PPR and I have been there many times in various aircraft I always ring to confirm that the strip is open whether there has been any rain lately because if there has not it will be quite soft underfoot and what the length of the grass is, this is my responsibility as PIC (if I arrive overhead and it looks like crap it is also my decision to continue or not). The owner should ask what type and what experience you have.

At the end of the day it is the PIC's responsibility as to whether he/she continues or not, but if you have rang, asked the correct questions and received the right answers it is very difficult from afar to determine if the answers were in fact incorrect.

I'm in no way saying that this was the case in this situation as I along with everyone else on this thread apart from one wasn't there on that day but as he was on the ground he should have been able to determine the conditions. It may well be the case that with such limited experience it may not have been as close as he thought.

If I was an owner/operator of a PPR strip and charging landing fees I would not like to be in court defending a charge if I had told the pilot that all was good when in fact it may not have been. I'm not a lawyer but if I was the complainant I would have a very good barrister and I suspect I might win.

As far as I'm aware as soon as you charge for anything you become responsible in some way.

Regards

Aldo

I don't have any issue with you advertising here, makes perfect sense.

As I have had my RAA BFR by a CFI approve me literally in 3 mins and 27 seconds - exactly one circuit. And I did not know this CFI from a bar of soap. Love some of the standards these days.

And if you accepted the sign off on your BFR as described above you are just perpetuating and accepting the low standard, what you should have done (and maybe you did) was report this pitifully low standard which is bringing RAA into disrepute. Not to mention you have more than likely alerted CASA to this low standard by posting it on an Internet forum, not a bad thing really.

Two distinct problems here with this thread - one argument the grass should of been controlled and cut, but (exactly how high was it?? have not read the height. And - The pilot should have aborted - TWO distinct errors is see here. So if all here are the judge and jury which is the guilty verdict going too. PICK One only.

1. The operator/owner is charging landing fees and as such assumes responsibility for the condition of the landing area
    
    
   
2. The PIC has the final call as to whether the landing/take off area is suitable for their operations
    
    
   

In this case with a low hour low experience pilot 20/20 hindsight will be his best learning and he probably won't make the same mistake again

Did the pilot make the wrong decision - yes, will he do it again probably not, the best learning is a good scare, was the situation as bad as it was made out to be (I wasn't there so I'm not able to say), is he the one most at fault, probably yes and maybe not, the operator should provide a surface suitable for operations.

Aldo

Aldo,Don't think you are on the right track there with your comment, as most RAAus operate in G Class only; as you would known there is no requirement to file anything. So from your comments this doesn't mean that the person doesn't know how to get from A to B and plan a flight and navigate correctly. Again most wouldn't even request flight following etc, however for those that want to understand the system and have knowledge of what needs to be done when they want to utilise this service I say is a good thing, isn't this what this forum 'ATC question' about. Based on your comment we should know it all prior to getting signed off. Isn't a good pilot always learning, can you please navigate me to your best seller book 'I know everything on flying' as I'm already lost......

I didn't direct this comment at you (i'm sorry if you took it this way) it was directed at the training you are receiving and what that level is (personally I don't think it is sufficient, but then again I may not know shit from clay I've only been flying for thirty years, but as I do over 300 hrs a year in and out of all areas G, C, D, E & military restricted I think I have a reasonable idea, do I know it all not at all).

You are correct most RA only operate in class G but so do lots of others (probably more than most people think) most airstrips outside the capital cities are in class G and there are lots of commercial and RPT operating into and out of those strips.

Yes I do think you should have a very good grasp of it all before you are signed off (we certainly had to but then again that was from another era so may not be applicable these days).

Flying is not just about getting from point A to point B it is about knowing everything that is going on around you and using every tool available to you to know what is going on around you, the training you received should have covered all of this, if it didn't the training wasn't good enough (my opinion).

You are also correct a good pilot keeps learning from each flight but you shouldn't have to learn the basics from each flight.

The throw away comment about the best seller at the end say's it all you don't know what you don't know.

Aldo

Wht concerns me in this discussion is the number of people who don't appear to understand the basics of flight planning and navigation, most have presumably got their cross country endorsements yet don't understand the flight plan system and from lots of other posts the number of people who are not able to read the weather is appalling. And let's not start on the radio work and position reporting.

Who is conducting and signing off on the training and testing.

The thing is I think,{and this is only my opinion} that the mutation of an organisation for ultralights ie rag and tube , that has slowly but surely eaten away at casa to allow such high performance and heavier aircraft such as we have now with the plastic fantastic etc . Has taken over something that was special and restricted to a certain weight and speed etc that always had more of a family feel to fly ins etc and was fun ,,,where now it,s more like,,,HEY LOOK at my new 100000 plastic fantastic, she is so much better then those old rag and tube thingy,[they should ban those things they are dangerous sort of attitude.

I don't think you are looking at this from the correct perspective, I fly drifters and Jabiru's as part of recreational aviation, I fly Cessna's, Pipers and beech aircraft as part of GA, any time I flown into an event I have never been worried about what aircraft anyone was flying or what it looked like just happy to see them there I don't care what type of aircraft you fly just as long as you are flying. The event and whether it is good or not is not dependent on what you arrived in but who you are as a person. The other thing it is easier to get more of the family (for family feel) in a 6 or 8 seater than it is in a single or 2 seater but not sure what you consider family.

our mandate is to give our customers the best service for their money with a very strong emphasis on safety and compliance.

In my reading of this forum for a time one of the biggest complaints is about increased safety and compliance and they are some of the people wanting a change of organisations.

our 2 year subscription, at this time, it will be $55 incl GST

Interesting to note the "at this time" for the $55 fee

As for being a Company and employees and directors being in the position to receive a wage or recompense for their investment, I would hazard a guess and say that not too many people are going to work for nothing,

Interesting considering the above 2 year fee structure, lets assume for a moment that half (1/2) of the quoted ten thousand (10,000) members of RAAus are not happy with the organisation (I don't think that's the case) but lets play the game and approximately 30,000 GA pilots in Australia, if you got half of each group that would give you 20,000 clients at $27.50 per year or $550,000 per year income (unless there is a pay per item fee on top of the $55) that's not much to pay people with considering you have 4 or 5 directors (I think this is what I have previously read) most directors (and I am one) expect $200+ per year, CEO's think they are worth more than this in most cases.

This doesn't leave much in the kitty for safety management systems, QA, all the relevant manuals, the day to day running of the organisation and employees haven't been paid yet.

I have always applauded people for having a go and I hope it works for you and if it does it will also work for a lot of other people.

I have no issue with RAAus at this stage (them in combination with GA let's me do everything I want), they have a few minor issues to clean up but that will happen in time. I believe the fee structure for RAAus is too low and this is what is causing a few problems with cash flow, try joining a golf club that allows you access across Australia and see how much change you get out of $1000 (that's if you can find one that allows access across the country).

Best of Luck

Aldo

You are right Aldo, and the majority of times that is what we do but it doesn't take much for us to slip up especially if under a little extra mental load.

Thanks, I suspect in this case (as prop appeared to be developing full power) they may not have achieved positive rate of climb and been descending it is very difficult when not climbing and close to the ground to point the nose back at the ground to get the airspeed required, but this is what you must do or you will be back there anyway.

Aldo

In general we don't spend a lot of time at low level

I don't disagree with your push for LL training but what we are talking about here is a take off, upwind, downwind or crosswind the same principals apply. Accelerate down the runway maintain the centre line, achieve rotate speed, lift off, checks - speed increasing, positive rate of climb (stay in ground effect if need be until speed increases sufficiently to achieve positive rate of climb), flaps away as required, MP, RPM as required, climb to 500 AGL before any turning. Ground references slipping or skidding by shouldn't come into it.

Aldo

Aldo,That might be quite correct, and there may be situations where a down wind take off is required (eg one-way strips). However, I'm of the opinion that if there is a choice, use the free air speed provided and take off and land into wind. Early in my flight training, I did a downwind take off and the wind dropped. New Y-fronts required.

OME

I'm not advocating downwind take off's or landings are what you should be doing to save a couple of minutes but sometimes you may need to and if you do providing it's not outside the performance of the aircraft they should present no problem.

Not sure why you were worse off if the wind dropped on a downwind takeoff that should have made it better.

Aldo