Aldo

How unlucky can you be 1/2 second either way and they probably miss each other by 10 metres (they both would have been doing about 25m/sec, 50 knots). Looks like the Jab taking off on 29 and the Pawnee landing on 24 with the Pawnee just leading the Jab doesn’t appear to be any damage to the prop on the Pawnee so must have been in front and doesn’t look like any impact damage to the tail of the Jab, obviously just speculation on my part. What a sad day for the families involved

Easy fix take 2 down only have one direction then

Flyboy If you have information that would get the topic on track and have reliable information you should post it so that people are no longer guessing. You are promoting the guessing game which is obviously disturbing you (from your post) by not putting the correct eye witness account of what happened, not saying what happened is just promoting circumspectural comment. Aldo

Because they are not a problem

It is not about making someone else responsible you still have that responsibility it is about accountability all the way from the bottom to the top. The reason we have CoR regulation is because the top only ever thought about profit it is exactly the same reason unions exist, if the top did the right thing unions wouldn’t exist. And all of the above is from a right wing business owner Aldo

Probably should pick up your bat and ball and go home mate you are way too good for us. There are quite a number of wide bodied jocks with multi thousands of hours on this site who are extremely helpful and informative it’s a shame with all of your experience you are not the same. Is it any wonder with your attitude that pilots are continuing to kill themselves the same way they have been since flying began. Oh and don’t bother responding I’ve put you on my ignore list ????? Aldo

Machtuk One doesn’t need to work as a commercial pilot to understand the pressures of commercial flying. I have a MECIR, RPC, PPL and several thousand hours all paid for out of my pocket, I do a lot of business flying (my business) and believe me the financial pressures are very real, when was the last time you had to forgo your wages because of a decision you made as PIC (I don’t imagine you would ever have had this happen) so you really don’t understand commercial pressure, your commercial pressure is all coming from you because you as PIC get to make non financially binding decisions they are all about the safety of the flight and if you are not doing that you don’t deserve to be a commercial pilot. My opinion in GA (commercial or otherwise) if you do 2 missed approaches and don’t exercise your alternate you are a fool and you are endangering you pax, if you are RPT most if not all will be coupled approaches in shit weather, I don’t get the opportunity to fly an ILS so I have no coupled approaches but I will always carry enough fuel to go to my alternate. So please don’t come on here and tell us plebs we don’t understand the realities of commercial pressures. Feel free to give me a call to discuss further if you please 0429 674 790 Allan Bougoure

Mate COR removes the pressure from the driver to drive just because the boss says so, as the boss can go to jail for forcing the driver to drive just like GA only the boss is not accountable in GA to the level it is in the transport industry these days

Student Pilot Pilots are their own worst enemy they would cut each other’s grandmothers throats to get a job and this is where the problem starts it is not about CASA, legislation or safety management plans it is about supporting each other it is about doing the right thing whether it costs you your job or not, then it is about the next guy saying sorry mate you sacked “John/Jill” for complying with the regs I’m not going to work for you. Sadly this probably wont happen cause the next person will do it for $5 less an hour and so the cycle continues, until you all start to back each other up it will continue. For the record I chose long ago not to pursue a career in aviation and I’m glad I did as I have done 5000 times better in oil & gas than I would ever have done in aviation, that said I have stood up many a time in that industry and said no and as a consequence have lost jobs but I didn’t stop doing it. I once got a warning letter for stopping a job (reason -not being a team player) Aldo

Onetrack agree totally 2 missed approaches go to your alternate

NT5224 Yes the pilot works for a company that a good mate of mine is the chief pilot (based in Qld not the parachuting operation he was flying for on the day) he showed me the photos of the aircraft and the pilots injuries and also asked me not to give any more information than I have done. The pilot as you know is ok, he is in hospital for treatment but will recover fully from what I've been told. Both of us were surprised that the injuries were not far worse. Aldo

The story is true it was a skydiving operation engine out on a 206 pilot alive with a few bumps and bruises. Stalled it into the trees tail first canopy not enough to hold it up so buried it’s nose in the dirt Aldo

Mike The radio procedures essentially haven't changed but the requirements have, prior to the early to mid nineties (too long ago) all VFR flights were conducted on a full reporting basis (the same as IFR flights) departure calls, position reports (+- 2 minutes) and in contact with flight service at all times. Departure from your planned track had to be approved by flight service etc. This ensured that all traffic was monitored at all times. I fly both VFR and IFR and I make the same departure, enroute and inbound calls for both and you have some people criticise you for it (while VFR) but I don't care others out there know exactly where I am. The difference now with VFR is that unless you are in CTA/CTR/PRD/class D there are very few calls that have to be made there are no mandatory departure calls, inbound calls or enroute calls required in class G you can get in and go where ever you like without telling anyone anything

Not quite true (at least in Qld) I have a number of friends in FB operations flying tractors and most loads contain retardant I’m not sure if this is different in NSW and VIC although I have a mate flying out of Cooma at the moment and the day of the accident he was carrying retardant also said it was a shit day the tractors can deal with most conditions but the 130 may not

Turbulence penetration speed is higher if you are heavy

Tell the tower to piss off or just ignore them I'll change the transponder when I'm on the ground thanks

KG I agree, I knew Rob (owner) quite well, my question is why do we fly around below lowest safe in shit conditions thinking we will get through it makes no sense, someone once told me most accident searches and investigations the next day are conducted in perfect conditions. Stay on the ground and wait it won't be that long.

Onetrack I'm happy for you to be right, Rob who's name has now been released has been a board member with me on the DDAC for the past 2 years was one of the nicest people you could meet, the rescue chopper was sent out at 0500 this morning (as I'm told) found the aircraft on it's first search pattern winched in a paramedic who confirmed both were deceased, law requires a doctor to make it real and that is why you may not have known until later. I don't need to be right Aldo

Onetrack when I posted that I had already had information direct from the family might pay to check before you comment

Plane found know the pilot well 2 deceased

Mike I both agree and disagree with your sentiments, I fly with every electronic gizmo that I can take with me and I'm also able to navigate manually if required. The biggest problem with totally relying on the electronic is that a lot of pilots (GA & RA) don't actually know where they are in relation to a point on the ground, VFR flying is being able to navigate with visual reference to the ground at all times or if you are on top of 8/8 cloud every 30 minutes you must be able to fix your position positively with a navigation aid that you have been trained in with the appropriate log book entry saying that you have been trained and you are proficient. I know this all seems pretty archaic but that is how it is. The issue with the sentiments in this discussion is that RAA is trying to get access to CTA and to get that access you will need to be able to fly visually without any electronic equipment to the tolerances 100' either side of an assigned altitude and within 1 nm either side of track by looking out the window and referring to your flight plan and map. Here is what scares me, we had a senior RA instructor from a very well known school on the sunny coast come to our club to upgrade to a CPL he had well more than the required 200 hours to sit the flight test and had completed the CPL theory but sensibly wanted to do some additional training and the test in the 210, interestingly enough a CPL is a day VFR licence and during your test you are not allowed to use any electronic devices you must do the test with the manual nav methods (I don't agree with it but that is the way it is), tracking through Amberly on his way to the Gold Coast he was asked to track to a position by ATC to avoid potential conflicting traffic he mis-identified his position turned left instead of right ended up 2 miles off track and failed the test. Now there are any number of things he could have done one being asking ATC for a vector. Do I think the rules should be changed yes I do but I can't change them. Everyone needs to remember even though you say well I'm not a commercial pilot so I don't need to do that we all share the same airspace below 10,000 and it doesn't matter how big or fast you are if you run into someone the results will be the same. Aldo

Octave You are right I know nothing of your sister or her land management but it is not the PM's fault, it is not climate change it is Australia as it has always been. Address the problem and address it properly, manage the fuel load and where people build and this will happen less often. You know nothing of my empathy, sympathy or what help I give to people and I actually passed on my condolences on your post yesterday. Sometimes property can't be saved and that is a shame and I'm sorry for your sisters loss, but I would be interested to see what the vegetation around your sisters place was so we can learn from that as well, what is the lat and long so we can see on Google earth.

Scott Morrison is leading by not following the moronic Green, Left and those unable to think for themselves religion and scaremongering of the man made climate change agenda. Who is Bette Midler anyway an actor/singer (essentially a no-one in the real scheme of things) and obviously another of the left fraternity that live in little bark huts by the sea with no electricity don't own cars and don't take trips in jet aeroplanes so they can all save the world. Please !!! When will people learn if you live in a forest or right beside one and you don't manage it properly you will eventually get burnt, next it will be those who get ruined by floods (which will follow this drought) same thing applies if you live below the high water mark you will eventually get wet Wake up people

Alan Very intelligent and logical (careful you could get locked up for thinking like this) I also come from the bush and we plan like this also (although we don't have the fuel loads and eucalypts like they do in NSW and VIC) in fact at the moment you couldn't get a fire to burn, the only other thing you could add is to prevent people from building homes in forests. If you have a look on google earth at where the fires are and the towns that have been devastated you will see that the national parks come right to the edge of a lot of the towns, a full blown fire with a 40 knot wind up its backside is not going to stop at the road. State governments and local councils have a lot to answer for, councils for allowing the town planning and state government for the management of the national parks/forests. My condolences to all affected by these recent fires Allan

BusaKaine Thanks for that, yes it is only commercial ops I had thought it applied to both Aldo