acro

"not worth it to resell, but 25k inc engine in the air...the engines are a 2.1lt vw i think they are around 7k new, ive seen some youtubes of them doing aerobatics and they look pretty solid, are there any owners here?"Hey Acro, there is a pretty active Sonex group here : http://sonexaus.wikispaces.com

 

There are around 106 plans/kits sold to Australia, and 28 flying examples of Sonex,Waiex, Xenos and Onex. according to Sonex Aircraft LLC official figures.

 

2 Sonex including my own, and 1 Waiex are just about ready for first flights... probably a few more waiting in the wings.

 

The figures you quote above would be in the US, you would have to factor in import costs to get engine and kit here. They are quite cheap in the resale market, not sure why as they are great bang for buck. A tri-gear aerovee has just been listed on the RAAus members market for $30k. If I had just started building mine, I probably would have dropped everything and bought it.

 

We have a handful of VH registered examples as well, no problems doing basic aerobatics.

 

I imported my kit 8 years ago, so wont quote you costs as the exchange rate was bloomin' poor!

China only produces "crap" because that is what we want, we don't want to pay a dollar more than we have to so the quality comes down. I too would be hesitant flying in something that said 'made in china' but that is what a lot of people have said about Czech planes and their seems to be a few of them around these days. There is no doubt they are capable of good quality and I think with the right QA (not in house QA but an independent someone) they can have a win.But just remember its our fault they are producing cheap crap as we are all getting too stingey (comes up in red but I know what I mean) to buy anything more expensive.

All of Bugpac, EMPI and Scats crankshafts and rods are made in my city. EMPI don't hide this fact either, you can find it in their advertising. Some crankcases are still cast in Brazil as they have good magnesium casting skills. Like Jabiru, Scat finish their Chinese forgings themselves inhouse (California).

 

When Scat and EMPI used to make their own cranks 100% in the US, they were also "copied versions".

 

I suggest you seek something Lycoming or Conti powered if you wish to avoid Chinese content.

 

Not surprised, a lot of the companies I have had dealings with have not a single clue about presentation and the perception of quality from a Western person's POV. It's this side of China that continues to drive down the better side. I have Chinese welders who are up there with the best of them technically, but getting it through their heads that presentation is just as critical has been a constant frustration.

 

Anymore info or pictures of them?

 

Why single out China? I don't trust food product from anywhere especially any country that has uneducated farmers using chemicals, look up the Southern Spain tomato poisoning incident for example ....

 

The powdered milk thing was a dissapointing episode, no excuse and happily they executed the people involved. Look up how many people die of food poisoning in Oz each year though, prepare for a shock ....

...But, we can do ourselves a favour by judging quality as a matter of fact not prejudice.

i think the vw's are made in south america and china just makes a copied version, i think bexr is just cut, he cant accept his country produces dangerous cheap products

Best to avoid those Mate, the crankshafts for them are made in my city, Chengdu, actually not far from where the 787 tails are made (AVIC Chengdu). The heads aren't though, they are made on the East Coast of China ... as are the conrods, camshafts, oil pumps, Weber carbs among other bits.http://pacrankie.en.alibaba.com/product/1877508102-221939370/Crankshaft.html

 

http://scmzxk1986.en.ec21.com/V_W_Connecting_Rod--8279169_8279385.html

 

http://apsparts.en.alibaba.com/product/971646556-213361646/VW_air_cooled_big_bore_heads_for_beelte.html

You know you want it ...http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Direct-Power-Angle-Grinder.aspx?pid=294359&menuFrom=70201

chinas new state of the art dream liner, 100% safety guarantee

Nice looking aircraft for sure. Depends a bit on what engine you put in it. I think a lot of them (home builts) have VW based engines.Atec Faeta is a very slippery carbon fibre aircraft that gets along smartly on 80HP but fairly rips with a 100 hp. Agent is Dexter Burkill up near Denman/Scone.

Depends a bit on how important re-sale is in both time and money terms. A more mainstream aircraft is probably easier to sell.

Now you do know that Boeings and Airbuses are chockers full of Chinese made parts don't you? - many of the important parts made within an hour of my home actually, the complete tail of a 787, .....

Boeing finds problem in 787 tails

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/06/business/la-fi-dreamliner-problem-20120206

Boeing 787 nit by tail problems

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/300630/Boeing-787-nit-by-tail-problems

and at the tail cone attach points the longerons were delaminating too...china so safe

i rest my case

on another note, what do people think about the sonex? it seems to be a very cheap little plane, but its aerobatic so im giving it some serious thought

Agro, the MA60 was made by a company, not a country and your position reminds me of all the tightasses who buy a $20, 4" grinder from Supercheap and 2 hours later get on the net and blame China for their own misgivings.Now you do know that Boeings and Airbuses are chockers full of Chinese made parts don't you? - many of the important parts made within an hour of my home actually, the complete tail of a 787, all the inconel fuel lines for Rolls Royce for example.

 

But anyway, just another endless "Made in China" debate that I have been involved in too many times so I'll leave you to your "them and us" idealisms.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/307684-plane-spurned-in-china-is-given-away-to-other-countries/

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2011/05/09/quality-chinese-made-plane-questioned-after-crash.html

chinese have been known to forge metal certificates, material specs on buildings, trains, planes killing thousands...oh and yeah some woman died the other day from a chinese usb charger...all chinese stuff these days is pure crap and i do pay extra to avoid it

china? where did you hear that? i know nanchangs are solid but i wouldnt touch any other chinese built aircraft

ive seen that, brumby dont answer the phone anyway... going to hold off a few months and start some serious work on the P-40

so if a plane with a mtow of 600kg is is taking off at 900kg then it has a smaller lift factor, so the Va is just like saying you cant do more than xx G's, where as a lighter plane would at full deflection exceed that at a lower speed.

True that pots. I think VA is little understood.For instance, VA actually increases as weight is increased, contrary to popular belief.

what is that hanging off the vertical stab?

"Wing structure features a single spar torque box connected to fuselage via three pin attachments to each half wing" i guess it could quite possibly shear the outer wing then...hmm

I don't think the velocity would be enough in level flight.

I don't want to hijack this thread with irrelevant information but there's something interesting that some folks may not have seen before, so I've created a new thread with a link below.This was prompted by Deborah's comment above and MotzartMerv mentioned it earlier - that an F15 was flown having lost one wing.

 

Not only was it flown but the Israeli Airforce pilot Zivi Nedivi had a midair collision during a dogfight, started spinning but recovered using afterburner and then flew the aircraft back to base. Although the handling was marginal for control he landed and didn't realise he only had one wing until he opened the canopy. This took place nearly 30yrs ago. Sounds like BS? Here's the link to the other thread where the History Channel video is posted.

Good to see such a strong response for NAIPS, and I agree it's not always user friendlyIf the NAIPS report was for moderate to severe turbulence then the question might be whether it was referenced, because the outcome of that report would pretty much produce the result.

AJ it does look like a structural break rather than a wire strike I agree. Wings can develop a wave action under severe two way stress and can even break into several pieces.

 

In turbulence it may have been possible to get some control over the aircraft for a short time before the inevitable final loss of control occurred.

 

The other concerning factor with this flight is that it has been suggested it was commercial.

are you saying flutter was the cause? i believe if it was flutter the wing would be snapped at the root and bent backwards

If you aproach this logicaly you will realise that a plane will not fly for a kilometer without a wing.I heard from a local aviator there that the wing seperated along a rivet line. There are only one conclusion i can make as a result of these two peices of information What you beleive at this time is up to you.

in fact several usaaf and raaf pilots rammed japs in P-40's off horn island and returned with half a wing, 200 miles out

Having flown both aircraft, I can give the following comparison.Best Cruise speed.... Very similar around 100kts

 

Best climb performance... Similar, but with a synsnich prop the Brumby is slightly better

 

Range... Similar

 

Engine options.... Brumby have 2.. teccie has 1

 

Handling... The tecnam is a bit skatey on the ground, in the air very nice. Both are similar, although the ailerons in the teccie are heavier then the brumby

 

Xwinds... The brumby wins hands down.

 

Strength... Brumby

 

Comfort... If your not tall, the teccie. If your tall, the brumby.

 

Over all. I would have to go with the Brumby out of those two choices.

this cessna struck wires and you can see the wing severed cleanly

in the P-96 there is no outboard section that would sever like that even if it exceeded vne in imc.

it sounds like he got lost in the fog and took the wing off, its sad but these things happen all the time, pilot error contributes to most accidents, air frame failure is relatively rare.