SSCBD

Frank you old bastard - when are you getting the "push mower" out. I notice  on the video with your departure the grass was a bit high. Stop polishing your propeller all day making these plane pornos! and do some work around the place.

SSCBD 

I have not flown specifically a Jabiru 230d but looking to fly one in the next couple months with view to buying.

However I flown have many other types in RAA aircraft and GA.

I am interested in the quoted take-off performance of the 230d fully loaded at MTOW 600kg.

Jabiru advertise these distances.

Jab 230d take-off roll - 236 m

To 50ft  - 356 m

Landing roll - 140.5 m (love the .5m)

From 50 ft is -  534.5m (again .5m really)

I assume this was done with nil wind, on tar and at close to sea level and at MTOW? (I hope)

Question - And yes I know wind temp will make a big difference, but SAY in zero wind -  on grass but say 30c how much extra will it affect the 230d fully loaded?

Anyone with experience with the 230d performance please comment below.

Also are they about right or not about the quoted distances to start with.

Ok seriously - I have had a few frights over the years with kangaroos when landing in the afternoon at some strips or anytime during the day. 

Yes I have buzzed the strip at ten feet and a few moved but still many stayed. 

The bloody things don't move even when I get the plane down to walking speed on landing they have still been standing 10 feet from the wing. So of course I expect one to run in front of the prop or wing as you wont be able to shut down and stop as fast as they can hop in front of you. 

SO has anyone used a horn on their aircraft for this reason. Is it effective to clear them away say during a flyby and on landing. As the engine noise is not doing it. 

Is she the CFI  or just an instructor? Is the flying school owned by someone else. If she is not the CFI or the owner go above her head and complain and get the truth plus they have lost money and reputation.  If she is the god of the flying school  - walk away.

Sorry for your bad experience.

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

Those vids made me feel like a wimp. Here am I at the farm where I gave up on a 550m strip to use the 1000m bitumen strip at the town.

Hi Bruce - can you tell me are you flying the Jab on the 500m strip. Can you tell me whats the problem with it - eg,  the length or trees in front or the jab etc

OME - Let's keep it simple. The circuit is at Old Mate's place at Wattagai.

So why is everyone looking to fly low slow on base final turn? Because we were trained that way on L plates.

Simple way out of it - is to extend you normal downwind by 20 to 30 seconds - at cruise speed for RAA or not over 100kts do your landing checks without slowing down.

Next when you are ready at extended base, do radio call base with long final, with that out of the way -   then turn, kill rpm and turn basically a continuous 180 degree turn onto final. Stop worrying about an extended center line if you miss it just drift back on it with a bit of rudder,  Just don’t pull the nose up doing it.

When on long final then lower flaps and trim out for control of airspeed. Add power if needed but you will be basically be on a long final to clean everything up if needed and maintain airspeed with power or not.

Note

However, I do miss the old big ASI when flying glass cockpits as it always takes me longer to get and accurate read on the ribbon type airspeed with my head inside not outside the cockpit – with the old steam gauge it just a eye flick at the needle and am happy.

Hope this all makes sense – no need to push tight circuits – enjoy the flying and take the pressure off yourself and makes it safer.

I have been flying for over 30 years. Still alive. 

I have never had a CFI ever say anything that I was doing wrong. (except they like to fly at this airspeed on downwind or finals or they like to have cruise power set at this number etc)  All totally personal preferences of the Gods. ( Not having a go any any single CFI ). Never learned or was told anything new.  

This question is really for those who have been flying a while, not new pilots. 

Do we need BFR's and do they do anything for pilots that say fly 50 hours plus a year except cost money and time.

I am Not saying that for the guys that do say 10 hours or 15 hours a year for example that may need some practice - but they should know that themselves.

How many of you feel they are required or should be optional with 50 ish hours flown a year. 

Not looking to get into a GA vs RAA question - This is a strictly RAA BFR question. 

On topic answers welcome.  And your personal experience and reasons - Please.

Quote  - Westpac is forecasting the Australian dollar to rise to 80 US cents over the course of 2021.

by - Prashant Mehra - AAP - Thursday, 31 December 2020

This is all guess work. IT always depends on conditions and aircraft type,  eg wind / no wind / gusts / turbulence from trees hangars etc -  where you are eg terrain conditions at the end of the runway -- what you are in - aircraft type  - also what weight and height you are at. AND how skilled or game you are to die. 

No one can give you an answer because it will usually happen when you are in dead mans curve anyway (forgive me the chopper pilots term).

Remember when the noise stops along the runway -  how long will the shock of - Jesus Christ last before you really act and think it through. How much airspeed (ENERGY) has been lost 5 - 10 kts in that time really.  

The only answer is to get the wheels one foot off the ground in a paddock and you should be able to walk away. 

This is just a few things to think about when it happens.   

Stop this guess work it will kill you. 

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

There are TWO J230Ds (both with Gen4 I think)  for sale right now on the jabiru website (3rd party for sale). scroll down below the J120

 

J230 is fine at 700kg.  just do your W&B sums. you'll find it has no problem accommodating rear baggage weight and staying with CofG.  (it's nose heavy with nothing in the back) 

 

After 2007 a J230 and J430 got the same wing bolts (important)

 

 

Yep the factory confirmed it with the wing bolts. Don't see any problem with COG. Looking for next late next year so have time. Another mate of mine want to do the same flight with me from the USA so it might be two jabs. He has been flying for many years and can get some time on jab 230 in USA in the mean time.  More fun and back up aircraft if any problem on one. 

1 hour ago, SplitS said:

J230 is the perfect plane for this. Once the temp gets over 38deg you probably wont want to be flying anyway. Fly early and tie her down when it gets hot.

J230 has a lot of space and the cockpit is a comfortable place, the high wing provides shade. 

The Aircraft is super strong when flying around 600kg there is a huge safety margin giving you can fly the same airframe over 700kg if it has letters painted on the side.

If you have a problem the factory is easy to talk to this is a huge plus IMHO. They know their aircraft and have all the spares.

I am a huge fan of these aircraft plus you are supporting a fantastic Ozzie company.

Thanks splitsS  - common sense - but will have oil in case with ground crew even if its VH rego I would still change it. The intention is sunrise departure  to miss the heat if inland - coastal will be cooler usually and smooth air. 

13 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

SSCBD - I am honestly concerned with your references to "the plane as a type of all purpose UTE" and "VH  form it can lift UP TO 750 kilos MTOW – and yes in RAA is limited to 600 kg on paper." and "Plus could carry  extra fuel in the rear. (I did not say that)" all of which suggests , at least to me, an intention to explore the aircrafts maximum load carrying ability, which is likely to be well above legal & quite possibly safe limits. 

 

It perplexes me that you appear to be comfortable expressing these ideas in a public forum.

 

I am further concerned, should there be an incident, the possible consequences for this Forum, by having fore knowledge of what may be your intentions in this regard.

Skip to answer your concerns. Do not take this a any shots at you.

I am not a PC person, as I call a spade a shovel. However, I write things to make people think. The use of the word UTE is correct in the sense it has a huge rear empty space compared to other raa aircraft.  Right?

I have thought of using the VH J430 as I am still GA rated and started as ppl when I was  21yo, and pre auf and raa  rated and have been for more than 30 years. I was also flying ultralights when you could not fly above 300ft or cross a sealed road. So I have a few years of flying in Australia and am still alive.

My concern is If I lose my medical for any reason like a mate of mine with skin cancer that was caught and fixed. But CASA medicos cancelled his license because he was on a pill that had not effect on his health or flying safety even with two separate skin specialists (non  aviation) letters to casa  saying it had no effect on his health. But no effect – it took 18 months for him to get cleared by CASA. However i still maty consider using the VH version. 

However I did not say I was flying OVERWEIGHT I said the J230 could be flown like the J430 as it can go to 750 kg. I like its airframe strength same as the Sling 2 that can fly at 700kg but not in Australia.

Yes I can fly with fuel (but is a concern to me ONLY in case of a crash and fire with pax) in the back without any problem as long a I am one up or have a very light pax. So that answers that.

 Your statement – “intention to explore the aircrafts maximum load carrying ability” You are incorrect – Have been they done that by test flying for CASA many years ago.

 However, if an emergency occurs outback with the group, I will have in four wheel drives (see below)– I would not think twice of flying them to hospital or nearest help if that meant going over some weight limit within reason. 

However, I suggest you look at some flying schools these days with some heavy instructors and students that I did some numbers in my head and were at least 20 to 30kg plus overweight,

Your quote  - it perplexes me that you appear to be comfortable expressing these ideas in a public forum. Where did I say I was breaking the rules exactly? Did you read my style of writing to make you think? As earlier stated in the above post you must of missed  - quote - . But have a few friends (3 cars with caravans,  campers) driving around Australia as well which I plan to meet at certain spots is the thinking as well, and will carry some stuff me as well.

Definition of stuff equals = weight – spare fuel if needed – spares – tyre -  and stuff.

So what I am saying is that I need to put some emergency overnight camping gear in and water and sat phone in the back and maybe some fuel in from time to time for weather or problems.

As the guys with the four-wheel drives will all have a turn flying with ne to get a different perspective of the land.

Any other questions?

I have moved to a new posting due to some sandpit fights with members that have nothing to do with the question!

Remember I am using the plane as a type of all purpose UTE. Not the fastest nor the slowest but has say mission capability for the needs. Looking to stay in pubs or local accommodations most of the time. Camping overnight as a sort of last resort.

But have a few friends (3 cars with caravans,  campers) driving around Australia as well which I plan to meet at certain spots is the thinking as well, and will carry some stuff me me as well.

So Gentlemen, YOUR THOUGHTS – on this topic please.

Looking at the Jabiru 230d which has a lot of benefits in my mind for a long flight around Australia.

Disclaimer I don’t own a jab or represent jab in any way but – have flown a few  of them years ago.

Reasoning for the pick so far.

HUGE did I say huge rear cabin.  

In its VH  form it can lift UP TO 750 kilos MTOW – and yes in RAA is limited to 600 kg on paper.

I have heard you can sleep in the back if really stuck in bad weather / rain for the night.  

Its takeoff performance “Ground Roll”,  ISA at max weight RAA  is  226  METERS ish  is fine and acceptable to me as long as you don’t have a tight strip with big trees at the end. Most places up north and around NT - WA coast do not have walls of trees again a plus.  

Landing roll quoted is 140 ish meters at max RAA weight.  

Spare parts if any (hopefully not) should be quick to get compared to an overseas supplier.

It has a very strong airframe in case of slight accident ( hopefully not) – as I have read about on this forum.

High wing for shade and any roll over escape from aircraft is a plus to me.

Range of 679 nautical miles which suits the flying stints and fuel load requirements. Plus could carry  extra fuel in the rear. (I did not say that).

What Have I missed? Especially Jab 230d owners with gen 4.

45 minutes ago, walrus said:

Is it even possible to fly coastal around Australia? I would have thought controlled airspace would preclude it. For example, Townsville, Cairns, Darwin and Perth look like absolute road blocks.

Of course common sense applies and go around all cta. Its not that hard. 

Enough sand pit fights - please gentlemen.

I rest the case,  looks very slow to me, and yes one up. But I agree that its bloody slow. 

Short answer - yes.

But flying for 30 years ish i can still do and have some paper maps, vtcs etc,  but why with all the gadgets these day. 

What aircraft in the RAA LSA category would you choose to do it in.  AND WHY?

If you were buying new or  newish second hand plane. 

Two people.

What are your pros or must haves?

And cons?

What requirements and specs would you want with or in the aircraft to do this flight.

I have already allocated in the back (or tied to the wing, smile - casa)  12kg for light pop up tent, sleeping bags, and overnight stuff including sat phone, 5lt water and instant food if I get stuck in the back blocks or weather related.

Flying will be mostly coastal ISH.

Set timer usually 30 mins - not hard. 

Just plain bad luck - the only rock in the paddock. 

He got it down without stalling in so well done. 

Or 

If any one cast another stone here - let him be the next engine failure and we will score your landing from the safety on the couch  too!

Landing up north (or taking off) in a float plane near the great barrier reef in a northly swell. You will never need a chiropractor ever again. 

Sure Just 20 mins up the road. Give me a PM and i will call you if you like and can go over what you want. 

Hi Shajen - where is it in QLD? AND what type is it, if i may ask? Could have an independent look at it if not to far.  

What do we expect to change after this election. As in anything good for the members?