walrus

Flew to a destination for lunch with two other aircraft last week. Two had sky echo and I have ADSB in/out transponder. ADSB only showed close traffic BUT we all had ipads running Ozrunways. Ozrunways showed all of us and we kept in line astern at about equal four mile intervals 🙂

…A little chat occasionally on 123.45 and we kept ourselves neat and tidy there and back.

Pen, regarding Los Angeles, there are VFR corridors right through the middle of controlled airspace, none of this skulking around the edges at 500 feet.

Regarding “mixing it with hundreds of passengers” - you do that when you use any CTAF with an RPT service already.  You arrange separation with the RPT pilots, they won’t bite your head off. When there is potential conflict,  I usually give them the courtesy of landing first on economic grounds by just extending downwind a bit.

‘’All PPL holders learn and are endorsed on controlled airspace procedures, it’s not rocket science.

‘’RAA students at Moorabbin have been using class D airspace for years.

Sure we all get rusty, but it’s not that hard.

‘’As for medicals, in the USA and UK they self certify without it raining flame and aluminium from the sky. Besides, what do you think ADSB, transponders and radios are for? ATC is there to help, not hinder.

Now I know `why Michael Smiths Searey was N registered.

I found out the hard way that you can’t hire an aircraft from some organizations without a current ASIC.

Turbo, I have a ppl and did the training. but $800 for a bfr and then a medical on top of that, just so I can “go coastal” once a year is crazy. Have you ever flown into LAX as a passenger in daylight? You would have seen all sorts of aircraft from a C172 upwards, mixing happily in that airspace, but not here.

Turbo, I’m sure you are right. What you are saying, it seems, is that RAA pilots have no rights. That said, my point stands. With no rights, then the 60%+ of Australians living under CTA on the East Coast should not be flying RAA. You can fly suitably equipped RAA aircraft in CTA with a ppl, bfr and medical certificate).

‘’That begs the question of medical self certification for GA, if that happens then the floodgates are open for the RAA pilots with a PPL as well.

Why even fly the East Coast? It’s just a series of road blocks.  Jervis Bay, sydney, Newcastle, Coffs, Gold Coast, Brisbane, Sunshine Coast. Seven of them - and not one of them makes a provision for RAA pilots or a sensible fuel efficient corridor. How many Light Aircraft pilots and pax  have been killed because they couldn’t plan or get clearance through these toxic zones? 

No point commenting. They don’t listen and don’t care. All you are doing is providing window dressing.

Too close to CASA Head office?

While it doesn’t affect my flying, on my travels in outback Australia I have occasionally been given advice about camping places to go, or to avoid,  from local  Aboriginals which is based on the spirits inhabiting various locales. I have great respect for that advice. Some locations are beautiful but downright spooky for no apparent reason. Others are somehow welcoming, I know not why.  I once ignored that advice and ended up leaving as fast as possible next morning, such was the feeling of dread that hung over this otherwise perfect spot.

Spenaroo,regarding boats, I see plenty of $150k wake boats bring pulled by 100K+ of trailer and Dodge Ram 4WD. Most of these appear to be owned by young tradies. The hourly running costs are stratospheric. The question remains - why aren't aeroplanes maintaining market share of the Australian toy market? Judging from american youtube flying videos there are plenty of young folk in the American GA scene, why not here?

..But we know they are unsafe! Why, they even permit children to touch the controls!   ...And the takeoffs and low flying! Suicidal!

Thruster, Turbo, you both make relevant points. Like Thruster, I too am lucky to be able to fly and am left alone. I also note Turbo’s statistical evidence that not much has changed. I agree. However this doesn’t change the conclusions I have reached. There are two of them:

- While statistically not much has changed, that begs the huge question of whether it should have changed by increasing in line with the rest of Australia’s economy as measured by GDP. Australia’s GDP has almost tripled from  2000 to 2019 (from roughly 0.5 to 1.4 trillion). Has the activity of the GA sector tripled even allowing for RAA? I don’t think so. Is there three times the investment, jobs and activity? No. For anecdotal evidence of what a thriving GA sector would look like, visit New Zealand. Clearly we have a problem.

- While I am lucky to be left alone to be able to fly, I think it is selfish and dangerous not to be interested and a contributor even in a very small way to policy development. If you don’t do this, you risk being overtaken by events. Furthermore without active scrutiny and robust discussion of industry policy settings, there is a tendency for regulatory sub optimisation - regulators may avoid hard decisions in favor of the line of least resistance or worse, decide to regulate in favor of their own self interest. There is ample evidence in the form of the Forsyth review, the current RRAT work and numerous previous reports as well as the alleged treatment meted out to Glen Buckley and APTA to suggest that there is, euphemistically “room for improvement”.

‘’It is axiomatic that unless regulatory activities are scrutinised and challenged the standards of regulation will deteriorate. That ultimately leads to inefficiency, regulatory failure and ultimately corruption. In other words, third world standards.

So yes, “I’m all right jack” and not much has changed in my neck of the woods but I can’t help wondering if we are in a fools paradise.

 If we don’t critically evaluate and instead do nothing we risk our survival.

My sense of the current state is that GA is on an irretrievable downward spiral. GA has no supporters and plenty of detractors. You can start with local government who see airports as prime development land. Then there is the RAAF and RPT crowd who look at anything smaller than a B737 as air pollution. Then there are the nimby/green/ left wing types who hate the idea that anyone should even be able to afford to fly an aircraft.

GA has no friends. It is therefore ripe for sacrifice as well as a convenient whipping boy for the public service.’’You can’t win. it’s over.

‘’But what about recreational aircraft’?  Give them time. They will #@%@ them too.

Agree with Jackc. Very few kids have the faintest idea about salesmanship. Having said that, those that do understand won’t be working for office works.

The other day I had to explain to a twenty something what a crank handle was, then how to use it to manually start a diesel engine, including use of decompression lever and the finer points of removing crank handle before it goes into orbit, breaking arms, etc. I felt very old having to do this.

‘’Fast forward - I need a new iphone, I asked twenty something about the new iphone 13…… “no need - you won’t use very much of what is in there” was the reply.

Ignition, you raise very valid points.  I’m past 70 but I wanted to fly from age six. I don’t frequent aero clubs for exactly the same reason you don’t. Mentally I’m still a 20 something in love with aviation. I offer my kids free rides anytime - mostly too busy, always on their phones. Grandkids? Their mothers won’t let them.

‘’What I personally think is missing from aviation these days is the sense of wonder and pure joy in becoming airborne! That spirit has been rung out of the activity and flushed down the sewer by over regulation - hence a suggestion that aviation is now a guilty pleasure. There are plenty of us who love flying but we can’t share that joy with you on youtube for fear of the regulator.

My observation of the young these days still stands: you have been conditioned by marketing and technology to require instant gratification. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in popular culture that extols patience and delayed gratification. Even cooking and eating ferchrissake! Uber Eats, Deliveroo and Menulog exist because people won’t even invest time in travelling to a fast food restaurant to pick up a ready to eat meal! What hope has aviation got to attract kids with those priorities? Aviation requires careful thought, practice and deliberate actions to fly let alone build, that requires faith and diligence which is hard to come by especially since CASA has crushed the joy out of flying.

‘’That said, look at youtube and the likes of Trent Palmer, Gravity Knights, etc. to understand that there are young players who are having a great time, not only in the USA but places like NZ. It’s just Australia that is so gloomy. There appears to me to be a growing RAA STOL aircraft movement - aircraft that fly low and slow and don’t need expensive and limiting airports., pretty much any paddock free of stock, wombat holes and power lines will do.

What, I think originally got my attention was the pprune posters opinion that: "Is it just me or is there a real decline in the people using these forums and therefore the amount of information we are sharing ? To me, it looks like everybody is just losing interest".

Ii thought that this was relevant because perhaps coincidentally, The Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee of the Senate has apparently commented on the scarcity of submissions to its latest aviation review compared to the previous forsyth review.

In my opinion, there are two reasons for a lack of engagement: either things are going so well that everybody has nothing to complain about, or,  the industry has given up believing that meaningful change will result from engaging with Government. Given the volume of reviews and reports over the years which appear to have been ignored, there might be some truth in the latter.

If that situation is correct - that industry has given up hope, then that is dire because it presages collapse in investment, innovation, growth and jobs.

As for a rosy future for RAAus, I would hope so and technically at least there is ongoing investment innovation and growth. However, we exist at the whim of the regulator and we live hand to mouth, so to speak on time limited exemptions. We are unimportant fringe dwellers -rather like illegal immigrants on protection visas. We exist at the whim of the regulator, all CASA has to do to crush us is a small act of omission - decline to renew exemptions for whatever reason and we are toast.

One track:

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The big problem as regards kit planes is that the older generation (those over their early 60's) were often taught a trade, and working with your hands wasn't looked down on quite so much as the last 3 or 4 decades.

As a result of the destruction of our trade colleges, and other useful training institutions - plus, the advent of mass production of cheap goods from Asia (along with constant advertising and marketing), the younger ones no longer have the manual skills or trade training to do things, such as build a kit plane.

Add in the constant impact of the Internet and electronic devices, coupled with instant gratification seeking (aided by that smooth and persistent marketing and sales), and the younger people want everything NOW, they want it NEW, and they want it delivered, ready to operate, out of a glitzy box.

 

Example:  A good mate is a fitter & turner/machinist, a year older than me at 72. He restores and reconditions machine tools. He's rebuilding an older lathe gearbox, and one of his three sons (all born in the 1970's) comes up to him and says, "What are you doing, Dad?"

Dad: "I'm cutting a new gear to replace this damaged one in the gearbox, so I can get the lathe operational again".

Son: "Why don't you just bin this lathe, and buy a new one?"

Dad: "Because these lathes were built to last and to be repaired, and it's wasteful to bin them, just because one gear in the gearbox has stripped teeth".

Son: "Oh. I couldn't be bothered spending the time and effort you put in to fix these old things. I just chuck stuff in the bin and go buy the latest and greatest".

 

Son goes back to his new iPhone, new laptop and new electronic gaming devices. Makes plans to meet up with mates to have a gaming session. Is looking at trading his car, because it's 6 yrs old and he doesn't want to spend money fixing it, and besides, the new cars look HOT!

He wouldn't think of trying to repair anything on it, anyway, because everything to do with any repairs on cars today, is simply hook up the laptop and OBD reader, get the fault codes, and "scrap that component, go buy a complete replacement component".  

I think this is close to the mark. I have two stepsons. Both doing important jobs for six figure ++ salaries. One likes getting his hands dirty, the other mirrors Onetracks mates son. He works twelve hour plus days talking to everyone from houston to london, has the latest sports-car and his view of manual labor is “why? I make enough money per hour to buy new rather than take the time to learn to fix things”. His idea of aviation is seat 1A business class.

Given the pace and remuneration of his job that is understandable. What little free time he has is spent on me me me me behaviour.

‘’The other likes working with his hands, currently with timber and with as little skill as I had at his age.

Me? Parental expectations consigned me to University and intellectual pursuits when I would have liked to be a tradesman. I’ve compensated for that now. I know a few other professionals who have done the same.

I get a real kick out of flying something I built but today such delayed gratification is not popular.

‘’Furthermore the amount of red tape and administrative BS is a major barrier for new entrants.

This post on Pprune caught my eye:

“

Marty is right. Furthermore, there doesn’t appear to be any time stamping so if joe covid was there at 9.35am and left at 951 am, but you were there from 9.20 to 9.29, then you still cop 14 days for you and your whole family - with no compensation .

Good points ARO,  in particular in my opinion iit is bad form to do precautionaries without permission. 

I used to shake my head when reading about middle ages history and the belief in witchcraft……..until Covid came along and with it thousands of publications containing utter BS about vaccines in general and Covid19 in particular.

‘’Please get vaccinated ASAP.

Aro, if pilots were dropping out of the sky scaring the horses, wrecking your cornfield or rose garden every day you would have a point.. For most of rural Australia a landing is a red letter day.

I have four undocumented strips in my “paddock” and would not hesitate to use any of them if I. thought it advisable.

By definition, PPR can only apply to marked strips contained in ERSA or suchlike. If it’s an unmarked, undocumented strip or just a paddock then there can be no argument that you didn’t land without permission, unless the law says “you can’t be anywhere without permission” which it doesn’t. It’s a bizarre situation.

Furthermore the i closed lands act looks to me as a device to keep drovers out of other peoples properties(an issue during drought) and also out of events and public facilities like hospitals.

‘’The fact that something is inclosed begs the question of whether it is legally inclosed as well. There are fences everywhere in the bush for all sorts of reasons, some legal, some not.

To put it another way, you would have to be unlucky in the bush to find someone who objected to a request or even a landing after an attempt was made to contact the owner. Most people understand the concept. of “a fair go”.

“nobody else around, so no need to broadcast” Gold!