Thruster88

There is nothing impossible about turning an aircraft with a dead engine at 30° bank angle while maintaining best glide speed. Maintaining best glide speed is the important bit regardless of going straight or turning.

Even battery tech that gives cars 2000km range will be of limited value for commercial aircraft. You just need a calculator. Weight is not much of a problem for cars, for aircraft remember the four forces that act on aircraft.  

20 hours ago, onetrack said:

Article here ...

 

https://particle.scitech.org.au/tech/aussie-first-electric-plane-takes-to-wa-skies/

The reporter may have lapped it up, 1000nm commercial flights are now possible with electric. We know the propeller input power required for Cessna Caravan, Beech Kingair, De Havilland dash 8-400 etc. We know how much battery wieght is required to produce the power required for 1000nm flight in these aircraft. Currently they would be lucky to fly 200nm with any useful load. BS doesn't fly. 

Whilst every fatal accident is tragic it is important to talk about and learn from them. Mark D mentioned the wagga wagga incident involving smoke in the cockpit, the report below shows how important landing immediately is. (The report was a little hard to find because Wagga Wagga is also know as forest hill aerodrome).

It is a very well written account of what actually happened that RAAus did not re write so as to make it totally useless as is often the case with RAAus reports.  

The pilot may have been in the "if you don't stall the aircraft you won't die" camp. Well done.

Being able to remove all electricity from aircraft circuits is not just for impending forced landings or crashes, smoke in the cockpit rates right up there.

- NTSB issues the preliminary report into the fatal accident involving Richard McSpadden and Russ Francis in a Cessna 177RG Cardinal RG, N545PZ, that occurred on October 1, 2023, at Lake Placid Airport (LKP/KLKP), Lake Placid, New York:

On October 1, 2023, at 1608 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 177RG, N545PZ, owned and operated by Lake Placid Air Service was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Lake Placid, New York. The pilot and pilot-rated passenger sustained fatal injuries. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 aerial photography flight.

The purpose of the flight was to photograph the accident airplane while airborne for later publication in a magazine article. According to witnesses, there were two airplanes that made up the flight. The lead airplane was a Beech A36 with a photographer onboard, which took off first from runway 32 at Lake Placid Airport (LKP), Lake Placid, New York. The accident airplane took off about 700 feet behind the Beech A36. The pilot/owner was to fly the airplane during the takeoff and climb out, and after joining up in formation, the pilot rated passenger would have taken over the controls and flown the airplane during the photo shoot.

During taxi out, witnesses heard the engine of the accident airplane running when the Beech A36 pulled up next to it. The accident airplane’s engine then shut off, and about 10 seconds later, the engine restarted. During the takeoff roll, a witness described that the engine sounded as if the propeller was set for “climb” and not takeoff, then he heard the engine surge. During the initial climb, the witness further described that the engine did not sound as if it was running at full power. The accident airplane then made a gentle left turn while it was 300 to 400 feet above ground level to join with the Beech A36. As the accident airplane closed to within about 1,000 feet of the Beech A36, it suddenly made a hard right turn back toward the departure airport. During the turn, the pilot of the Beech A36 heard the passenger in the accident airplane transmit on the common traffic advisory frequency, “We have a problem and we’re returning to the airport.”

The accident airplane subsequently impacted an embankment in a right-wing, nose-low attitude about 15 feet below the top of a plateau on airport property. The airplane then slid about 30-feet down the embankment and came to rest on the side of the slope upright, perpendicular to the embankment with its left wing oriented toward the upslope, and its right wing oriented downslope. The initial impact point on the embankment was located about 440 feet from the approach end of runway 14, approximately 250 feet left of the runway centerline. The downslope angle was about 70-degrees with a ravine at its bottom.

Lake Placid Airport was located at an elevation of 1,747 feet above mean sea level, and it was equipped with a single runway in a 14/32, runway configuration. Runway 14/32 was comprised of asphalt that was in good condition, was 4,196 feet-long by 60 feet-wide, and was marked with non-precision markings in good condition that featured a touchdown point. Runway 14 was equipped with medium intensity runway edge lights and a 2-light precision approach path indicator on the left side of the runway which provided a 3.50° glidepath to touchdown. Obstructions existed in the form of 77-foot-high trees located 884 feet from the runway, 334 feet left of centerline, which required an 8:1 slope to clear. Additionally, there were 13-foot-high roads 45 feet and 145 feet from the threshold, and 12-foot-high trees 93 feet from the runway end, located 132 feet to the right of centerline.

The recorded weather at Adirondack Regional Airport, Saranac Lake, New York, located about 13 nautical miles northwest of LKP, at 1551, included wind from 010 degrees true at 7 knots, 10 statute miles visibility, clear skies, a temperature of 23° C, a dew point of 12° C, and an altimeter setting of 30.20 inches of mercury.

According to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) records, the pilot held a commercial pilot certificate, with ratings for airplane single-engine land, multiengine land, and instrument airplane. He also possessed a type rating for the DC-3, and private pilot privileges for rotorcraft-helicopter. His most recent FAA-issued second-class medical certificate was issued on January 6, 2023. He reported on that date, that he had accrued approximately 9,000 total flight hours.

According to FAA airworthiness and airplane maintenance records, the airplane was manufactured in 1976. The airplane's most recent annual inspection was completed on April 7, 2023. At the time of the inspection the airplane had accumulated 5,352.2 total hours of flight time, and the engine had accumulated 36.7 hours of operation since major overhaul.

The wreckage was examined at the accident site. The right wing had sustained upward buckling from the wingtip inboard to the aileron/flap junction. The fuselage and empennage were slightly buckled along the right side from the aft side of the cabin door to approximately Fuselage Station (FS) 225. Control cable continuity was established from the flight control surfaces to the cockpit controls. The flaps were extended approximately 10 degrees; the stabilator trim was neutral. 

The fuel strainer bowl was fractured during the impact sequence and only a portion of it was observed. The fuel strainer screen was clean. The fuel selector handle operated normally in all positions and positively engaged in the detents. The position of the fuel selector valve was confirmed to be on “BOTH” by rotating the handle through all positions while defueling the airplane through the inlet line of the fuel strainer. The fuel caps were closed and secured. The position of the fuel pump switch could not be determined due to impact damage. There were no obstructions noted in the fuel or fuel vent system from the wing tanks to the inlet of the fuel strainer. First responders reported fuel was draining from the airplane upon arrival. No blockages were discovered in the fuel system and 17 gallons of fuel were recovered from the right wing fuel tank. The fuel was absent of water contamination.

The nose landing gear was crushed aft during the impact sequence and the actuator was separated (its position could not be determined). The main landing gear were in an intermediate position. The single main landing gear actuator was observed attached to its frame. The sector gear teeth were intact. There was no observable damage to the main landing gear down locks or gear legs. The main landing gear wheels were observed in contact with the buckled lower fuselage and not in the wheel wells.

The electrical and lighting switch positions were damaged during the impact sequence and their positions could not be determined. The cowl flap handle was in the “OPEN” position. The mixture control was in the full rich position, the propeller control was in the high rpm / fine pitch position, and the throttle was out about 2-inches and bent slightly up and to the left about 30-degrees. 

The engine remained attached to the firewall through its respective engine mounts. The engine mount sustained damage from the impact sequence in the form of fractures and bends to various tube sections and was canted to the right of the airplane centerline. The engine mount was cut using a reciprocating saw to free the engine from the firewall along with disconnecting or separating various fuel hoses and control cables.

The propeller remained attached to the engine crankshaft. The propeller spinner was impact fractured and only half of it remained attached to the propeller hub. The propeller hub was found cracked and damaged consistent with impact, and one blade was partially dislodged from the hub. The blade exhibited leading edge scratches and gouges. The other blade was bent slightly aft at midspan with an approximate 2-inch curled section of the tip separated. The blade exhibited chordwise scratching and leading edge gouging on the outer 1/3 of the blade.

The top sparkplugs were all found intact, undamaged, and tightly installed in each cylinder. The top sparkplugs were removed, and a lighted borescope examination was conducted on each cylinder. No abnormalities were noted within the cylinders. The engine crankshaft was rotated by the propeller in its normal direction of rotation, and suction and compression were noted on all cylinders through the top spark plug holes, with movement of all rocker arms noted during rotation.

All 8 sparkplugs were removed and compared to a Champion Aerospace AV-27 “Check-A-Plug” Chart. Coloration across the plugs was from normal to black carbon fouled, with normal wear to the electrodes. No mechanical electrode damage was noted or observed on any of the sparkplugs. The bottom sparkplugs for cylinders No. 1 and No. 3 were oil soaked, consistent with orientation of the engine at the accident site and oil within the cylinders. The single drive dual magneto unit was found securely installed to the rear of the engine, after removal of the unit, the single drive was rotated using an electric drill. The magneto produced spark at all ignition leads. No damage was observed to the magneto housing, but both ignition harnesses sustained varying levels of impact damage in the form of cuts and abrasions to multiple leads. 

The oil dipstick was found securely installed in the filler neck and indicated that 6 quarts of oil was contained in the engine oil sump. Oil was found draining from an area on the No. 3 cylinder exhaust tube that was impact damaged and due to the orientation of the airplane at the accident site. Oil was also found on the accessory section of the engine around the oil filter as the oil filter had sustained a high level of impact damage and was separated from oil filter’s threaded base. A portion of filter element was removed, examined, and found to be clean with no metallic particles or debris present. The oil suction screen plug was found to be tight, and safety wired to the oil sump. The screen was unobstructed and clear of any debris. 

The fuel system including the engine driven fuel pump, fuel manifold, and fuel servo were all found attached to the engine at the time of the examination. The fuel pump’s 45-degree outlet fitting was found slightly loose with the mating hose tight to the fitting. No fuel staining was observed from the fitting or on the fuel pump housing itself. The fuel divider was tightly installed to the top of the engine with all injection lines tight and secure to each injection nozzle. The fuel injection manifold was disassembled with no debris or tears noted to its diaphragm. The fuel servo was attached to the lower side of the engine with all lines tight and secure, but all four hold down nuts were found loose when slight pressure with a wrench was applied. Torque stripes were present on the studs and nuts. The torque stripes did not appear to be disturbed or misaligned. The throttle plate was found in the closed position. When the throttle arm was actuated manually, the throttle plate moved freely within the servo, but the threaded rod for the idle thumb screw adjustment was found fractured and not connected. The fuel injection nozzles were found to be free and clear of any debris.

The vacuum pump was found securely installed to the accessory section of the engine. The rotor and vanes within were all found intact with no fractures or damage observed. The drive coupling was present with no damage observed and the entire unit spun freely when rotated by hand.

The propeller governor was found securely installed to the rear of the engine. Its screen was found free and clear of any debris and oil flowed from the unit when rotated by hand.

The wreckage was retained for further examination.

Conditions at Accident Site: VMC 
Condition of Light: Day
Observation Facility, Elevation: KSLK,1659 ft msl 
Observation Time: 15:51 Local
Distance from Accident Site: 13 Nautical Miles 
Temperature/Dew Point: 23°C /12°C
Lowest Cloud Condition: Clear 
Wind Speed/Gusts, Direction: 7 knots / , 10°
Lowest Ceiling: None 
Visibility: 10 miles
Altimeter Setting: 30.23 inches Hg 
Type of Flight Plan Filed: None
Departure Point: Lake Placid, NY (LKP) 
Destination: Lake Placid, NY (LKP)

Latitude, Longitude: 44.269042,-73.968803 

- Report:
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/193166/pdf

Having the gear out and prop in fine pitch would not have been helpful in attempting to clear the cliff at end of runway.

It is most unlikely that the aircraft crashed while inverted. Aircraft invert regularly after a hard landing.

A very short skid mark thru the crop, quite a hard hit. Don't think that one will fly again.  

Marvel Schebler updraft carbs as fitted to Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines vent the carb bowl directly into the carb throat. No fuel is spilled if inverted unless the fuel lines are disrupted.  

Carb ice is most unlikely with that engine model. If that was the cause there would be many per week landing of airport.

There is a reason why Tesla and all the many other manufacturers of electric vehicles have not gone with in wheel motor "technology".  First it is not technology. Unfortunately there is this thing called unsprung weight, best avoided.  

2 minutes ago, facthunter said:

sell for less than Cost of production.  Nev

That my friend gets vet old very quickly, it happens occasionally, a few years and your out of the game. Remember this is not a government job.

8 hours ago, facthunter said:

IF you love gambling, take up farming.  Nev

It is the only gamble that pays off long term. The gambler has a lot more control of their destiny that other forms of gambling.  

7 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

I don't include the locals in that bit incidentally. Farmers seem to be smarter than city folk  and I wonder why sometimes. We actually have a decreasing population around here, with abandoned farm-houses that once had big families. Our property, for example, is made up of 3 older farms.

My only explanation is that prices for farm produce have fallen a lot, and city life attracts young people.

This is my 40th year of farming and 39th flying, started young and still young. As tractors became larger a single farmer could farm more area. Farming is a game like monopoly, some like the game others not so much. Those that like the game buy and expand their holding or make off farm investments, for this to happen there must be willing sellers. Price, supply and demand fluctuate. Ultimately the farm gate price has to be high enough for the farmer to plant the next crop. Without the next crop none of use will be here next year.

This would just be a case of fr24 having a pic of the ledgend which once had the reg LTZ. Picture was taken in Canada where the aircraft may now reside. The cessna 208 was registered LTZ early this year.

Plane spotters are everywhere, just Googled the reg on my RV6a and there is a nice pic of it departing old station in 22.

The AOPA safety vid shows a women doing it easily in a 172. I mean no disrespect to women.

In the AOPA vid they used 45° angle of bank, a stall speed increase of 1.2. Best glide in most light aircraft is 1.4 times clean stall speed so the stall warning should not be sounding. Regardless of why or even if the sound is a stall warning it was not a good look for a safety vid about turning back when stalling is only thing that matters.  

2 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Great response BUT;

 

While a magnetometer may have ways of accommodating the non liner characteristics of an aircraft moving through a flat 360 degrees plain , I don't see how a compass can be adjusted to make the same accommodations. The best you could hope for is noting the variations (assuming consistency) at each cardinal point, so that when turning you know to allow for the variation.

The type of compass found in certified aircraft, cessna piper beech etc do have several adjusting screws for north south east west. I have only been involved in this process once and don't remember much, normally error  will be within 1-2 degrees of the master compass.  

In the 2021 AOPA turn back vid there is a sound like a stall warning during the super cub turn back, the same sound can be heard during the landing, I thought it was not a good look for a safety video. The impossible turn may be impossible in some aircraft but it will only kill you if the aircraft stall/spins. The stall warning should not sound at best glide speed. Going below best glide speed is stupid.

Latest email from casa implies RPL, PPL class 5 medicals just around the corner. Final approval of RAAus group G will probably occur at same time. 

DIrector of Aviation Safety, Pip Spence

We'll open consultation later this month on an eagerly awaited proposal that will give most of Australia's private pilots unprecedented flexibility when it comes to renewing their medical certificates.

We reviewed your responses to last year's medical policy review and other feedback from the aviation community to design a streamlined medical certification process for general and recreational pilots.

As a result, we will shortly ask for your views on a proposed Class 5 medical self-declaration.

The new Class 5 medical self-declaration, which was flagged in our General Aviation Workplan, will allow private pilots who meet fitness requirements to self-assess and self-declare without the need to see a doctor.

Those who meet the eligibility criteria and satisfy the requirements will have a Class 5 self-declared medical automatically issued.

The self-assessment would see applicants answer a simple set of questions using CASA's current online systems.

Access to training modules and comprehensive guidance material will help you  make a well-informed and appropriate decision.

Adoption of the proposal will mean that most people who fly the majority of hours in private operations will be able to apply for a Class 5 medical self-declaration, noting the medical exclusions and operational limitations.

We estimate the new system will cover about 70% of the Australian aircraft fleet.

There will, of course, be exceptions and some people will still need to see a doctor.

The proposal also does not cover riskier activities such as aerobatics, formation flying and night Visual Flight Rules operations.

We believe the Class 5 medical is a world first in terms of trusting pilots to decide on their own fitness and we worked diligently with the aviation medicine technical working group to arrive at a proposal that ensures regulation is proportionate to risk and is managed appropriately.

We're already working on the systems that will support the new self-declaration process and we aim to go live as soon as practicable, following the outcomes of the public consultation.

I'd like to acknowledge the contribution of our technical working group on this important initiative and other ongoing considerations for aviation medicine reform.

Consultation on a second key initiative from our General Aviation Workplan, this time aimed at addressing the shortage of Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (LAMEs), opened last month and runs until Thursday 12 October.
 

2 hours ago, facthunter said:

 CASA's not going to innovate or go out on a limb for anyone. Nev

I wonder what that means for RAAus group G.

13,000 feet of runway.......

45 minutes ago, BrendAn said:

Why would you be flying with blocked vents. Even 6 or 7 psi could problems then.  

If you check your vents before every flight that is great, probably not everyone does. We have insects in this area that can block holes 2-10mm very quickly with mud.