bexrbetter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 i think the vw's are made in south america All of Bugpac, EMPI and Scats crankshafts and rods are made in my city. EMPI don't hide this fact either, you can find it in their advertising. Some crankcases are still cast in Brazil as they have good magnesium casting skills. Like Jabiru, Scat finish their Chinese forgings themselves inhouse (California). ..... and china just makes a copied version, When Scat and EMPI used to make their own cranks 100% in the US, they were also "copied versions". I suggest you seek something Lycoming or Conti powered if you wish to avoid Chinese content. There were Chinese ultralight ag-sprayers on display at Oshkosh. I have nothing against Chinese products, but these were a real surprise. They looked like they had been welded up out of mild steel rod by a gate manufacturer. They were rusty and deeply unattractive and quite out of place at Oshkosh. I felt embarrassed for the team who brought them over. Not surprised, a lot of the companies I have had dealings with have not a single clue about presentation and the perception of quality from a Western person's POV. It's this side of China that continues to drive down the better side. I have Chinese welders who are up there with the best of them technically, but getting it through their heads that presentation is just as critical has been a constant frustration. Anymore info or pictures of them? I still avoid food stuffs from China because I don't believe their QC is good enough and there have been examples of criminal actions like the terrible formica in baby formula a few years ago. But, we can do ourselves a favour by judging quality as a matter of fact not prejudice. Why single out China? I don't trust food product from anywhere especially any country that has uneducated farmers using chemicals, look up the Southern Spain tomato poisoning incident for example .... The powdered milk thing was a dissapointing episode, no excuse and happily they executed the people involved. Look up how many people die of food poisoning in Oz each year though, prepare for a shock .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 All of Bugpac, EMPI and Scats crankshafts and rods are made in my city. EMPI don't hide this fact either, you can find it in their advertising. Some crankcases are still cast in Brazil as they have good magnesium casting skills. Like Jabiru, Scat finish their Chinese forgings themselves inhouse (California). When Scat and EMPI used to make their own cranks 100% in the US, they were also "copied versions". I suggest you seek something Lycoming or Conti powered if you wish to avoid Chinese content. Not surprised, a lot of the companies I have had dealings with have not a single clue about presentation and the perception of quality from a Western person's POV. It's this side of China that continues to drive down the better side. I have Chinese welders who are up there with the best of them technically, but getting it through their heads that presentation is just as critical has been a constant frustration. Anymore info or pictures of them? Why single out China? I don't trust food product from anywhere especially any country that has uneducated farmers using chemicals, look up the Southern Spain tomato poisoning incident for example .... The powdered milk thing was a dissapointing episode, no excuse and happily they executed the people involved. Look up how many people die of food poisoning in Oz each year though, prepare for a shock .... can you leave this topic? your wrecking it, the fact remains most Chinese produce is of a low quality, unless and until they improve i wont be touching it nor will many others, this thread is about specific LSA aircraft not china, and everyone's thoughts on Chinese products stem from their own experiences, if china wants a better name it must produce safe goods, until then its all crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 can you leave this topic? your wrecking it, the fact remains most Chinese produce is of a low quality, unless and until they improve i wont be touching it nor will many others, this thread is about specific LSA aircraft not china, and everyone's thoughts on Chinese products stem from their own experiences, if china wants a better name it must produce safe goods, until then its all crap. China only produces "crap" because that is what we want, we don't want to pay a dollar more than we have to so the quality comes down. I too would be hesitant flying in something that said 'made in china' but that is what a lot of people have said about Czech planes and their seems to be a few of them around these days. There is no doubt they are capable of good quality and I think with the right QA (not in house QA but an independent someone) they can have a win. But just remember its our fault they are producing cheap crap as we are all getting too stingey (comes up in red but I know what I mean) to buy anything more expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 "not worth it to resell, but 25k inc engine in the air...the engines are a 2.1lt vw i think they are around 7k new, ive seen some youtubes of them doing aerobatics and they look pretty solid, are there any owners here?" Hey Acro, there is a pretty active Sonex group here : http://sonexaus.wikispaces.com There are around 106 plans/kits sold to Australia, and 28 flying examples of Sonex,Waiex, Xenos and Onex. according to Sonex Aircraft LLC official figures. 2 Sonex including my own, and 1 Waiex are just about ready for first flights... probably a few more waiting in the wings. The figures you quote above would be in the US, you would have to factor in import costs to get engine and kit here. They are quite cheap in the resale market, not sure why as they are great bang for buck. A tri-gear aerovee has just been listed on the RAAus members market for $30k. If I had just started building mine, I probably would have dropped everything and bought it. We have a handful of VH registered examples as well, no problems doing basic aerobatics. I imported my kit 8 years ago, so wont quote you costs as the exchange rate was bloomin' poor! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 China only produces "crap" because that is what we want, we don't want to pay a dollar more than we have to so the quality comes down. I too would be hesitant flying in something that said 'made in china' but that is what a lot of people have said about Czech planes and their seems to be a few of them around these days. There is no doubt they are capable of good quality and I think with the right QA (not in house QA but an independent someone) they can have a win.But just remember its our fault they are producing cheap crap as we are all getting too stingey (comes up in red but I know what I mean) to buy anything more expensive. its not so much our fault for being tight, its more to do with labour governments in this country interfering and driving up costs, for example withholding land, massive fuel excises, huge minimum wage requirements (aus $17/h - usa $4/h - uk 6.31 GBP) , on top of this those who dont want to work (huge dole bill to support), others who dont want to work (investors who want maximum return for minimum outlay, china is the key for them). nothing wrong with czech products, its basically german Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 "not worth it to resell, but 25k inc engine in the air...the engines are a 2.1lt vw i think they are around 7k new, ive seen some youtubes of them doing aerobatics and they look pretty solid, are there any owners here?"Hey Acro, there is a pretty active Sonex group here : http://sonexaus.wikispaces.com There are around 106 plans/kits sold to Australia, and 28 flying examples of Sonex,Waiex, Xenos and Onex. according to Sonex Aircraft LLC official figures. 2 Sonex including my own, and 1 Waiex are just about ready for first flights... probably a few more waiting in the wings. The figures you quote above would be in the US, you would have to factor in import costs to get engine and kit here. They are quite cheap in the resale market, not sure why as they are great bang for buck. A tri-gear aerovee has just been listed on the RAAus members market for $30k. If I had just started building mine, I probably would have dropped everything and bought it. We have a handful of VH registered examples as well, no problems doing basic aerobatics. I imported my kit 8 years ago, so wont quote you costs as the exchange rate was bloomin' poor! i just saw that one advertised, it says 90-95 cruise, i thought cruise with the aerovee was about 115? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 http://www.flyingmag.com/photo-gallery/photos/50-years-chinese-aviation-knockoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 i just saw that one advertised, it says 90-95 cruise, i thought cruise with the aerovee was about 115? It has no leg fairings or wheelpants fitted, theres 7-10 knots right there... and trigears are that little bit slower with 3 lumps in the airstream! Also depends on the serviceability of the Aerovee engine and wether it will pull decent revs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 do you think the aerovee would have problems like that @ 95 hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 do you think the aerovee would have problems like that @ 95 hours? All depends on the maintainer/owner like any engine, if its tuned and properly maintained then it should pull 3100+ with the standard propeller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 are you using the aeroveeare you using the aerovee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 There is a early Jab 2200 tail dragger at my strip that will cruise regularly at 115kts. It is lightly built, has a cruise prop and has the wheelpants and leg fairings fitted. A lot of builders are disappointed when their Sonex doesn't achieve factory figures but don't often appreciate why.. has led to some speculation that the air is different in Wisconsin. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 are you using the aeroveeare you using the aerovee? Jab 2200 - cue - Jab bashers and Optimistic icons ha ha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 manufacturers always give the best figures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 . . . Why single out China? China was the country being discussed but I take your point. I should say that travelling through China for three weeks covering 8,500 kms and eating pretty well everything served up I never got as much as indigestion. The only people in our group who got sick in China were a couple who chose to eat in a western style hamburger restaurant. The atmosphere in Northern China is far more dangerous than the food. Smog in Beijing was foul on three days out of four. We had a wonderful time and I would recommend to anyone spending time in China and get an understanding of the people (like people you meet all over the world) and the politics (nowhere near as invasive as some people think it might be.) You'll see more guns in the USA than you'll ever see on the streets in China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 can you leave this topic? . Pot, Ketttle, Black. STFU. your wrecking it, you're. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Pot, Ketttle, Black. STFU. you're. luff china long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj_richo Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Oh yeah, there used to be a couple of Yahoo forums/groups for Sonex and Aerovee builders, they are now closed (Read Only) most of that function has moved to http://www.sonexbuilders.org/ ..if you wanted to read up on them a bit more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 luff china long time Be careful, I live in China so you know that means, yup, we all know Kung Fu! You should change yaw name to Mr Cliche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Now children . . . . play nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Now children . . . . play nice! I am, I'm falling out of my chair laffing at all this! Good day today, just got handed my 7th, hang on I'll take a picture .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 XIa Xia - Certificate of design patent? My mandarin is not that good (as you can see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 I am, I'm falling out of my chair laffing at all this!Good day today, just got handed my 7th, hang on I'll take a picture .... [ATTACH=full]31633[/ATTACH] are you patenting the B-2 today or the the lavi? or is it a completely new reproduction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acro Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 China SU-J-15-33 great quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 are you patenting the B-2 today or the the lavi? or is it a completely new reproduction? It's for a new 4" angle grinder, should retail for $15.99, should be in Supercheap stores soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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