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Thruster Forums - Some Thoughts

Guest TOSGcentral

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Guest TOSGcentral

Hi, I am attempting to resolve a few issues here and have already been in discussion with Ian on the subject – which is Thruster orientated web sites, or parts of web sites such as where I am writing now.



There are several such in existence. There is this section of Rec Flying; in UK there is the Yahoo Groups Thruster Club forum (which is reasonably active and has produced a lot of good info on the T600 and Jabiru 2200 engines); the UK BMAA has a Thruster forum section on their main web site that is not very active; and there is another Yahoo Group forum which is the Thruster Club Oz that is virtually defunct and only ever had a dozen or so members – most of which have migrated to this Rec Flyin site. That is the one that I wish to air here for opinion and comment.



Ian and I are of accord in this area – it will be far more productive to, as much as is practical, keep information and users centralised in one main interchange point. For Australia (even though we have an increasing number of overseas members) Rec Flying is the logical place to do this.



There are other issues though. One concerns TOSG and the other is about authority and intrusion via web site members input – a reason why web sites are Moderated.



The main weakness of TOSG has always been that it is really on one-to-one communication or via the (one way) quarterly Bulletins between members and TOSG HQ which is myself, Kay and now also Lois, operating out of Watts Bridge SE Qld.



Rec Flying has been a boon because I have been able to get out information more frequently or on an ‘as needs’ basis. But there is a limit to how much it is practical to infest a general user forum with the inner workings of a Support Group – it could blunt a lot of the ‘sparkle’ out of the technical and operational flow that is the major value of the Thruster Forum here.



So I intend to use the Yahoo forum as a ‘TOSG Mail Box’ for more rapid communication within TOSG. That will not prevent or inhibit people posting what they want, but as I am now a Moderator of that site I am able to place a notice directing people here for the fuller information, but I also undertake to copy over to Rec Flying any tech, ops or general interest Thruster items that are posted, to promote the central Thruster theme on Rec Flying.



The other area is a bit more delicate and I shall be blunt. TOSG, Rec Flying forums, Ian or myself are NOT airworthiness authorities! This can make life awkward when people advertise aircraft that are obviously non-compliant with their registration category.



There is, for example, an aircraft advertised in the current RAAus magazine with a non-compliant engine on it. The fact that it is advertised there gives the thing credibility and non-compliance is encouraged to continue. It is not my province to torpedo other peoples advertising on such a widely read forum as Rec Flying. The Yahoo site presents a way where the Thruster community can be warned of ‘wild cards’ appearing in the system.



If anyone wishes to add to the above comments or put in their own views then I would be interested in seeing them.



We have a great site here courtesy of Ian (who has been of huge support to TOSG in particular) so I must stress that my intention is not to lure people away from here but rather bring more people in.



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Tony (and others)


These are my thoughts!


Several years ago the only available resource of interactive information on recreational flying was via the RA-Aus email list group - a type of forum that was text only only and you submitted a reply by email which was then emailed back out to everyone on the list - very cumbersome, limited and open to legal issues. It ended up being closed.


I thought we could do more for each other with forums like we have here where we could have pictures with posts to show detail plus so much more as we have here now. The Rec Flying forums were established and as I keep saying, purely with the focus of promoting safety in what we do by helping each other to fly safer, learn more about how to stay safe, help each other with hints to reduce costs in maintenance but in a way that maintenance quality also improves and that we as a community can show everyone else how professional we really can be in our flying activities.


Things have grown from those early beginnings to what the Rec Flying site is today and I truly believe that those initial objectives still stand true in what is being achieved here now. We do it without help or support from any organisation or body, we do it without politics or slandering each other - and even though I personally have created some enemies in trying to uphold those objectives (moderation, people using these forums for their own financial reward etc), we still do it with safety and professionalism in mind.


There are some people out there that have said that I am on some ego trip for world domination by trying to achieve the objective of this site being the only real place to go to for everything on flying recreational aircraft 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif - how far from the truth that is. I can tell you as most of you would know that the hours and hours of work and the financial costs I have endured in giving you this site (for absolutely nothing in return) makes any thought of world domination a pure joke, an enormous loss and a completely failed business plan - yet I keep doing it because I already know that there are several of you still alive today simply because of the information that is contained within this site.


Others have started up forums and tried to poach people from here and tried all sorts of things to undermine these forums (and even me personally) but when you look at the intent and objectives of this site then it is easy to see that the others do not have the best interests of you and our industry at heart. I had one other forum owner wanting to copy posts from here and insert in his own forums - I said NO - this only fragments information around the internet which in itself may cause you serious problems in your flying with "half" information. We only have so much time available for us to spend on the internet and imagine if the person that bought an illegally modified Thruster didn't know that it was as they only had time to read another forum somewhere and it wasn't posted that it is illegally modified. They buy it and through some problem injure themselves. If world domination means that the person doesn't injure themselves then these forums have achieved what they set out to do right from day one!


As you may know I am continually fighting with the RA-Aus Board about these forums and it would be really great if they would recognise the huge benefits that they provide to the RA-Aus, every RA-Aus member and recreational flying in general but to date I haven't been able to achieve that. I will however, continue in my drive to have these forums supported by the RA-Aus Board BUT not at a price of safety and professionalism by succumbing to political demands. If placing a post in here saying that an advertisement in the RA-Aus magazine is for an illegally modified aircraft rocks the boat with any future relationship between these forums and the RA-Aus Board then so be it - not only you as a forum member but every RA-Aus member and recreational pilot will always come first in these types of situations. The thing is though - we are all in this together and thus should be united!


If creating/supporting another place for information distribution away from here is to protect these forums from political pressure then that should be completely ignored - I will fight anyone tooth and nail to protect the interests and safety of every single recreational pilot. If creating/supporting another place for information distribution away from here is due to features that are needed but not available here then let me know what they are and I will introduce them or if I can't then I will close this site now, advise everyone to go there, save a lot of money and time and sleep for 6 months.


In summary I firmly believe that to provide the greatest safety information, the greatest community, the greatest range of information on maintenance hints and help and the greatest possible avenue of peer pressure in promoting professionalism in our flying activities, should only be done from one site - wherever that site may be, and hang the expense and political ramifications.


Tony, you ARE "Mr Thruster" of this type of aircraft - the backbone of our industry - and I firmly believe that you have always and will continually do what is in the best interest of Thruster owners and pilots and I will support you in any way that I can.


My thoughts (on how to achieve world domination 006_laugh.gif.0f7b82c13a0ec29502c5fb56c616f069.gif)



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Guest TOSGcentral

Very well Ian,


I will centralise TOSG on this forum as a 'mail box'. I apologise in advance to general readers for some of the administrative stuff of the Support Group that may appear, but there will not be a lot of it.


Regarding 'Sensitive' issues - a way to deal with this is via a 'notice' situation rather than appear to be attacking individual advertisers.


Later today (Lois and I have to complete the full pull-down of a T500 first) I will put up a post detailing the approved modifications to Thrusters inclusive of compliant engines and propellers - plus some general notes. All of this has been prior passed by the RAAus Tech Office (or will be on the string of parts and modifications currently under development as I have been in discussion with Chris)


If Ian then makes this post a 'sticky' it will remain sitting at the top of this forum as an easy to find reference. TOSG can and will back this up with further information on request whether you are a TOSG member or not.


That should cover the Thrusters satisfactorily. What other type former sections or support groups do is their business to protect the interests of owners.


I should also add that TOSG can be very outspoken! As an example - a few years ago I threatened to publicly nail the (then) AUF Ops Manager to a cross if another Thruster crashed as a result of the Gemini Pitch Instability issue and he was attributing the situation to piloting rather than airworthiness - that it most clearly was.


In the event TOSG was left alone to resolve the issue and today it is no more complicated to resolve than any of the usual queries about control difficulty from mis-rigged ailerons or putting on off-set engine bearers back to front.


I do not really want another session like that but assure everyone that I will not back away if the need arises.







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A big thumbs up from me !!


Hi Tony and Ian.


A big thumbs up from me here!:thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:


And some applause to 011_clap.gif.c796ec930025ef6b94efb6b089d30b16.gif .


Certainly since I've discovered It , this is my number 1 Thruster site.


(well, a toss-up between this and the TOSG website!)


It's important to be able to discuss issues on a professional level with fellow aviators.


I'm quite happy to use this forum as a Thruster/TOSG mailbox , (although I do mail Tony directly on occasion). And my 2c worth: having some RA-AUST people using this forum could only be beneficial to everyone.


I'm in complete agreement with your aims, motivations and methods.


Anyone who thinks Ian is on an ego trip should try maintaining a website for a while!032_juggle.gif.8567b0317161503e804f8a74227fc1dc.gif


Keep up the good work guys!





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Yep I like the idea of a "sticky" post with approved modifications, (possibly as a table?) potential buyers can skim through this to see what kind of lemon they are buying.


You need to indicate for which model number each modification applies to, there are probably many T600 "approved" parts that obviously won't work on a T300.


Make some mention about the wing bracket AD as well.


What about some of the variations that have come straight out of the factory, are these classed as approved because they came from the factory or what?


Post should also have links to relevant TOSG website pages and RA-AUST pages.


On a similar topic, what about fuel tanks, I have the rectangular type, rather than the beer barrel. The visual fuel gauge works brilliantly, but it is more difficult to refuel; are there any other fuel tank variants out there?.


Cheers, BobT



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Tony, if you want to make this place as the single point then just let me know what you would like to have.


I have a test site where I do all my development and testing - it is a complete duplicate of this "live" site so I can try different types of development. here is an example that I have just done to create separate sub forums just for TOSG and specific to Thruster - there can be as many as you need.




Also, if anyone else wants to start a true dedicated support group for any kind of aircraft then also please let me know as this can also be done to help you.





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Also Tony if you want I can lock one or more of the Thruster sub forums to only those members that you wish to give viewing permissions to. I can also setup a facility of payment to view including TOSG membership subscriptions made through either PayPal or Credit Card - when subscription is paid they get access to one or more of the sub forums for the duration of their subscription.


These same facilities are available to all recreational flying aircraft groups, schools and clubs. For a school I can create a booking calendar here so students can make bookings and instructors can see their schedules any time day or night and where ever they may be at the time. Student payments and club fees can also be made by credit card through these forums.


There is so much available here to everyone - just ask!



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Guest TOSGcentral

OK Ian – that is bloody great!


You have introduced a swag of new dimensions and possibilities and I will have to let those sink in a bit – but what you have suggested will have the Thruster by the nuts!


I also believe this concept could be of great use to other type users if there is anyone there dedicated enough to get behind them and push – then keep the pressure up. From that end I believe a general announcement post is in order as probably not many readers come to the Thrusters unless they have cause to.


Be back to you soon, but I have the ‘compliance sticky’ to write and Lois is up to her ears in taking her first undercarriage out (which is a swine of a job, especially when the fuselage is suspended from the rafters and swings about!) so I am keeping a beady eye on things.







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Guest TOSGcentral

After a fair bit of thought I would like to accept your offer Ian - pretty much as you have laid out in your example but with a few refinememts.


1. Replace 'Newsletters" with "TOSG Topical Discussion"


2. The other headings are OK but I would prefer to see the word 'Tips' replaced with 'Discussion' as this will automatically include tips - with the benefit of it being in a particular context arising from discussion. We can always 'sticky' solid general use points.


That will leave the current main Thruster section for broad based discussion.


I think all of these will be very well used and will have considerable value - especially with the cross link to the TOSG web site which will have a huge amount of easy to access information when the uploading is finished.


I would like to get going on this and see how it travels before adding the complexity of a subscription only private forum. You have more than enough on your plate at the moment anyway. Making this move at Rec Flying plus finishing the up-loading so the information access on the web site is organised is really the main priorities for TOSG.


My grateful thanks







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