kaz3g Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 This movie is about the group of women in the UK who got to fly as ferry pilots during WW II - two of them were Australian. According to Nancy Bird Walton AO OBE (Women with Wings, 2002), only two women ever got to do the same thing here in Australia despite the critical shortage of pilots for the war effort. Our misogynist defence hierarchy refused to allow women to fly even as non-combatants. Nancy records that the Minister for Defence of the time declared - Aviation takes women out of their natural environment; the home and the training of the family: Harold Thorby, 20 June 1938. The WAAF was formed in 1941 and 27,000 women enlisted in it during the course of the war, mainly in trade positions where they took the place of men. Many were also qualified as pilots but the edict stood. The two exceptions were Nancy Lyle and Gwen Stark. Nancy used her own plane to tow targets for army anti-aircraft practice and to fly camouflage experts over Melbourne. Gwen was a staff officer stationed with the US Army Air Force at Townsville and the Yanks allowed her to fly their light training aircraft. Back in UK, however, a significant number of women were enlisted in the Air Transport Auxiliary to ferry military aircraft to RAF bases. Two Australian women pilots, Mardi Gething and Victoria Cholmodeley were in UK at the outreak of war and also joined the Auxiliary. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Thanks for the heads up - read a book about women in the ATA, very interesting. I enjoyed the section about their developing a kind of condensed checklist and handling notes booklet for each aircraft, some of which had fairly idiosyncratic handling or systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 True about the condensed book on handling. Ive seen some of the actual ones. "A warts and all' summary of the vices and handling quirks of the aircraft. ( My words). VERY practical and illuminating. These pilots would be in a hurricane with non-standard status.ie armaments stripped out , temporory repairs to allow for ferry flight, ( perhaps gear locked down) and a Lancaster next in similar condition. VERY versatile. The handling book would be the endorsement. I read the one on the liberator, with particular interest. A less than perfect handling aeroplane, by all accounts. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Facinating program which I viewed transfixed last night. Amazing that these then, young women, flew all the state of the art high powered aircraft, many of which had inbuild bad habits, that could easily kill any pilot if they weren't up to speed. Many big fighters had so much torque on takeoff, that it was not unusual to require full rudder trim, plus full rudder, just to keep them tracking straight down the runway. And they flew several types each day, including the largest bombers and Tigermoths.!!....Very well done girls................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 An amazing story. Perhaps the best aircraft doco I have seen. The multinational volunteer nature of this tale cries out to be told in a movie- but I hope Hollywood doesn't get hold of it and stuff up a good story! Perhaps the Russians have already made movies about their own women pilots- they had several female squadrons who flew Stumoviks and perhaps even fighters in combat in that massive meat grinder we call the Russian Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A great accomplishment against the prevailing biases of the day. It is sad that at the end of the war, the bias against women prevailed and only one was able to enter civil aviation as a commercial pilot. I've seen some other documentary that covered a part of this story, but cannot recall the name. Last night's show was excellent. Just amazing that they flew aircraft on which they had not had any instructions, but read the notes during the flight. All the more impressive when the frequent adverse weather and instrumentation of the day was taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 old Koreelah, dial up "night witches" an all-girl Russian squadron. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A great accomplishment against the prevailing biases of the day. It is sad that at the end of the war, the bias against women prevailed and only one was able to enter civil aviation as a commercial pilot.I've seen some other documentary that covered a part of this story, but cannot recall the name. Last night's show was excellent. Just amazing that they flew aircraft on which they had not had any instructions, but read the notes during the flight. All the more impressive when the frequent adverse weather and instrumentation of the day was taken into account. I think another doco was called' The Ninty Niners" U.S. Wasps there was a small mention of them last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMMYTWO Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Bugger,I missed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 A good read on the subject is 'Amelia Earhart's Daughters'. American version. This is my 'girly poster' from the manden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Jimmytwo, if you have a decent internet connection, SBS normally have these programs available via their website for a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 SBS has another aviation documentary on next Sunday night on the Battle of Britain,,, should be good kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think another doco was called' The Ninty Niners" U.S. Wasps there was a small mention of them last night. Thanks Ozzie. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIMMYTWO Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Wiil keep my eye out for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I have been giving a lot of thought to just what these brave young women had to do. Jump several times a day from one sophisticated cockpit to another. Spitfire, Lancaster, B-25 Mitchell and everything in between. All state of the art stuff for the day, and most high-performance war machines, all from different companies, and with different systems. Each cockpit totally different, each engine start proceedure different and critical, and each aircraft with it's own little idiosyncracies and unique habits, that had to be picked up on the spot...or else...Then you have to find the particular field you'r going to, and land the damn thing with some degree of professionism !!. And the image of a female hand on the four throttles of a lancaster, alone in the aircraft normally operated by several............Mind blowing really....................................................................Maj... :clap2::thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Very few pilots would be as versatile. I have spoken to a few ex bomber fella's. They generally don't talk, and they are becoming fewer all the time, but on the sublect of the flying charactistics of various aircraft sometimes loosen up. Most flew about 4 different types. Maj., What you say is the essence of this . They flew ALL types, Whatever was there and had to be ferried. Some of it knocked around and just patched up temporarily to get it in the air, The little book with the condensed speeds ,weights, quantities and flying characteristics was the endorsement . There were many variants of most planes too, to make it more complex. Great effort girls. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Well said facthunter, wouldn't it be nice to get one of those little books and thumb through it ?!. I have an uncle in Brisbane (Alan Millard) who did 55 mostly night missions over Europe in Lancasters. He's still alive, but has lost most of his sight now. Your right about them not wanting to talk, I didn't even know he was a flyer until he got an award from the french goverment at the anniversery of D day, a few years back. They gave a plaque to all who were airborne that day. My father did his time on the kakoda track and then Bouganville fighting back the 'yellow peril'. He didn't talk much about it either. I guess they don't want to remember the bad parts. One one occasion when I did chat with my uncle about the lancaster, he said they almost always got you home, even badly damaged. He also said the Merlins were just great engines....................................................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I got to read ( but not keep) , one for the Liberator, a less then perfect handler, and It confirmed what I had heard about the plane.. I believe we should do what I would call an "evaluation of characteristics/ features" for as many U/L's as possible, in a similar vein. Not cool/uncool,etc, but go into it's idiosynchrasies, weaknesses etc. Would be a bit contentious, but helpfull overall. I knew a bloke called Brian Walker. He flew an Auster around Rutherford aerodrome sometimes when I was doing my instructor rating, and I got to know him because he was interested in Race cars. When I came to Melbourne he bought all the special bits I had made for the Peugeot 403 engines I had used . I only found out years later that he was THE "Blackjack" Walker ot Beaufighter fame in the Coral Sea. NONE of them talk about it. The Merlins are well made and strong but they have a bit of a weakness in that both Mags drive off ONE skew gear. This is why they are not certified for civilian transport use in some countries..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Lycomings have a common drive for both mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 ozzie, ..All engines do. The initial drive from the crankshaft, but it's not a skew gear. Skew gears are half way to being a worm drive and have a large amount of sliding contact. With both gears made from hardened steel they are a bit critical to lubricate. They were notable for it all going quiet, when the gear sheared and all the gauges still showing boost, oil pressure, fuel flow, RPM, etc. They had a name for the phenomenon, which I can't recall. They also had a bit of a problem with cam followers scuffing on start up. Allisons and all the german engines had rollers in the followers . The RR was metal on metal direct and the oil didn't get there quick enough occasionally. Nev.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Bugger,I missed it Me too. :( OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 ozzie, ..All engines do. The initial drive from the crankshaft, but it's not a skew gear. Skew gears are half way to being a worm drive and have a large amount of sliding contact. With both gears made from hardened steel they are a bit critical to lubricate. They were notable for it all going quiet, when the gear sheared and all the gauges still showing boost, oil pressure, fuel flow, RPM, etc. They had a name for the phenomenon, which I can't recall. They also had a bit of a problem with cam followers scuffing on start up. Allisons and all the german engines had rollers in the followers . The RR was metal on metal direct and the oil didn't get there quick enough occasionally. Nev.. Skew gear: just had a quick look around and found an interesting thread on spitfire forums. Seems it may have recieved a bad rap due to inncorrect assembly at Crewe RR. problem seemed to go away on correction. So i take it the merlin in some countries may not have made the grade because of this reputation and not the fact it had a common drive. i have never stripped a Contie O type but have done a few Lyc's. When Islander ISI went in i had my first chance to pull one down. Sudden complete stoppage was due to the key breaking on the common gear driving the mags. I just could not belive that an aircraft engine had to have two mags for redundency and threw that all away by driving both from a common point. More chance of one mag going out compared to that key breaking.. To steer us back in the direction of the thread. I remember seeing some news reel film at the saturday flicks when i was young where a women was interviewed and great footage of her flying several types, can't remember what it was about as it was 20 years since the war. But since then i have always been interested in their abilities to fly basically anything with wings. Shame they had to endure all that attitude. Has anyone read up on the Russian women who flew front line fighters? I could not think of a more nastier enemy to dog fight with. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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