jacko Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hi, just wanted to know how the streak 2 wing stands up to the cruze & streak 2b wing on a 582 and the difference between them? thanks jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytrikes Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I actually would like to ask a similar question too - what speed (ground speed) are people getting out of a Streak 2B wing with a Rotax 582 and at what consumption? Asking because I would be interested to know what speed (and fuel) gain I would get over a Wizard 3 wing with a Rotax 582. Could you also advise whether the figures are in a 1-up or 2-up person configuration and what position the hang bolt is in (front/middle/rear). Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I have a streak 2 with a 582 and was getting a trim speed of ~55kts. The hang bolt in the middle, in the front hole I could get a few kts extra, but the engine cruise speed was a bit higher and fuel usage was then much > per nm than it was, I put it back on the middle hole. If you want much improvement over 55kts then go for the 912 rather than the 582 and have it bolted to a 3axis rather than a draggy trike. To get a trike much faster than the numbers above requires significant fuel and or $ to be spent. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I actually would like to ask a similar question too - what speed (ground speed) are people getting out of a Streak 2B wing with a Rotax 582 and at what consumption? Asking because I would be interested to know what speed (and fuel) gain I would get over a Wizard 3 wing with a Rotax 582. Could you also advise whether the figures are in a 1-up or 2-up person configuration and what position the hang bolt is in (front/middle/rear). Thanks! Flytrkes, I haven't had the 2 banger for a number of years but what I can remember was the 2B will cruise hands off at between 48-54kts depending on what hole you have it in. front hole on the hang block gives you the fastest, mine used to use 1 up about 11-13 lph and about 15-17 lph 2 up in cruise depending on the weight of my pax. Huge difference between streak wings and wizards, IMHO other than the speed difference the handling is much better on the streaks, far better in turbulence and thermals as there is less wing area to be affected and a better penetration speed. Fuel difference when you look at it will roughly be the same and possibly less with a streak as you cover a lot more distance over an hr than you will in a wiz, I hated the wiz when i started training and only did 2hrs before doing the rest of my training in a 2B. Jacko, The difference with the ST 2 and 2B is the streak 2 has a trimmer cable so you can manually trim the amount of reflex (trim speed) you want and the 2b has fixed reflex on the training edge, Cruise has from memory just a little more sail area than the Streaks so it is slightly slower and i think it has fixed reflex also. Hope this helps Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks alf so the streak 2 is just as good as the 2b? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The other difference is the 2 has bungee holders for the profile batens where as the 2B has camlocks....or whatever, they dont use bungee cord. Not that there is a problem with bungee providing you change it every few yeasr and the replacement is the same tension. As for the trim capability, never could see a use for it, it slows your cruise but doesnt change stall speed, only time I found it useful is when theres a gaggle of you and you need to slow down for someone else with a slower wing...except then its as heavey as can be in roll and you'll be stuffed when you get there if you try manhandling it around the sky. I also found that the trim wasnt that reliable with the cable coming off the cable guide and getting caught up.... another complexity that just isnt needed, but then you can always just leave it alone. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytrikes Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for the information Alf - Fuel consumption seems like it is a fair bit more (I reckon I'm using roughly around 9-11 litres per hour 1-up in the Wizard 3) but as you say you will be reaching your destination faster. Another thing you touched on which is probably just as important is how the wing handles turbulence - the Wizard 3 does get knocked about a fair bit especially 1-up and well below MTOW - not bagging out the wing though I like the way it handles but would also like to extend my XC capability. How would you rate how heavy the wing feels to fly? I have flown both Wizard 3 and SST for a few hours also. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for the information Alf - Fuel consumption seems like it is a fair bit more (I reckon I'm using roughly around 9-11 litres per hour 1-up in the Wizard 3) but as you say you will be reaching your destination faster. Another thing you touched on which is probably just as important is how the wing handles turbulence - the Wizard 3 does get knocked about a fair bit especially 1-up and well below MTOW - not bagging out the wing though I like the way it handles but would also like to extend my XC capability. How would you rate how heavy the wing feels to fly? I have flown both Wizard 3 and SST for a few hours also. Cheers. Flytrikes, Rest assured the 2 or 2B will no way be anywhere near as heavy (or stiff in roll) as the SST. I found after flying the ST3 and then the SST then going back and having a lash on the 2 or 2B it was like flying a wizard wing again. They are either both nice wings and far lighter in roll than the 912 streak wings. Cheers Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks alf so the streak 2 is just as good as the 2b? Jacko, Yep you couldnt go wrong with either one of them. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thank you big help alf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for the information Alf - Fuel consumption seems like it is a fair bit more (I reckon I'm using roughly around 9-11 litres per hour 1-up in the Wizard 3) but as you say you will be reaching your destination faster. Another thing you touched on which is probably just as important is how the wing handles turbulence - the Wizard 3 does get knocked about a fair bit especially 1-up and well below MTOW - not bagging out the wing though I like the way it handles but would also like to extend my XC capability. How would you rate how heavy the wing feels to fly? I have flown both Wizard 3 and SST for a few hours also. Cheers. Flytrikes/ Jacko Another bonus you will find from any of the streak wings flying is you can pretty well much pinpoint your landings compared to the wiz. I remember way back in 2004 when i went back to my instructor to do my pax endorsment, I had been flying my streak for over 20 hrs and I roll up to Porepunkah and do the pax endo on the schools wiz wing on a warm day. After flying (bouncing) around for a while I turned final where i normally did on a streak and was totally amazed that the wiz didn't decend like a streak (even with the bar right in) and my aiming point passed below me while i was still 100 odd foot above the runway, I finally touched down outside the hanger about 400 meters past where i intended to. One thing with a streak if you want to come down they will come down when and where you want it too. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 ..One thing with a streak if you want to come down they will come down when and where you want it too. Although I have no experience with two strokes, apart from watching them, I'm told that the S2 /S2b on a two stroke handles very similarly to the Streak-3 on the 912. I certainly have no trouble reducing power, pulling the bar in, and achieving a 1,500'/min descent rate in wings level flight. Off the VSI scale in a steep turn. Obviously, watch and limit your maximum airspeed according to the conditions and g-forces at the time. The Wizard and Cruise wings "float" a lot more. Trim (either using reflex in the Streak or bungee in the SST) is just producing a force to push the bar forward, so lessening the force needed to be manually applied. Reflex does virtually nothing to the wing lift. Bungee on the SST does absolutely nothing to wing geometry. That is the reason it does not change stall speed. *Edit: I should add that you don't want descent rates anywhere near those indicated above, anywhere near the ground. It takes longer and more altitude than you may think to arrest the descent and level out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 David, Yep totally agree on your comments. Have flown all airborne 2 and 4 stroke options and yes wiz and cruise definetly float compared to the streak wings. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieselten Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Streak, in any of its incarnations, comes down like a load of sand out of a tip-truck when you pull the bar in. I flew a few hundred hours on a Streak 1 (almost all solo flying) and it did 48KIAS on a 582, burning about 16L/hr. This was with the trimmer wound right off. Have flown the Streak 2, 2b, 3 and the Cruze. All the Streaks on a 2-stroke trike feel about the same to me. On the 912 trikes I find the Cruze is a delightful wing with an honest 50KIAS trim-speed and I really don't feel tempted to move to a Streak 3 or the SST wing. Keep in mind trikes are not for going fast. Trikes are for loitering, sightseeing and having fun. If you must fly at 100KIAS, buy a Jabiru J120 - they're a lot cheaper than a new 912-powered trike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Dieselten, IMHO your not missing much on the strutted wing, I have one and Airbornes claim for 70kts hands off is BS, unless of course i got a lemon, it's a great wing in turbulence compared to the ST3 as there is no wire slap when the wing unloads. I had it in the front hole of the keel and to me it flew right wing low and only attained about 66 kts and felt not at all comfortable so i went back to the second hole and it felt normal Quite stiff in roll and light in pitch and just the tips flex in turb, but definetly not worth 13K. ST3 wing is in my opinion just as good. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Dieselten,IMHO your not missing much on the strutted wing, I have one and Airbornes claim for 70kts hands off is BS, unless of course i got a lemon, it's a great wing in turbulence compared to the ST3 as there is no wire slap when the wing unloads. I had it in the front hole of the keel and to me it flew right wing low and only attained about 66 kts and felt not at all comfortable so i went back to the second hole and it felt normal Quite stiff in roll and light in pitch and just the tips flex in turb, but definetly not worth 13K. ST3 wing is in my opinion just as good. Alf The difference being that with the ST3, 70KIAS in, level flight, requires a fair amount of force to pull the bar back and your arms get tired. With the SST, 70 KIAS is only a light backward force on the bar and your arms don't get tired. I was flying formation with two SSTs the other day and after an hour and a half my arms were just about dropping off as the lead was averaging 65KIAS which meant I had to do 70+ on the outside of some turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The difference being that with the ST3, 70KIAS in, level flight, requires a fair amount of force to pull the bar back and your arms get tired. With the SST, 70 KIAS is only a light backward force on the bar and your arms don't get tired.I was flying formation with two SSTs the other day and after an hour and a half my arms were just about dropping off as the lead was averaging 65KIAS which meant I had to do 70+ on the outside of some turns. Hi David, I'm not dismissing that the SST will nip along at 70kts with ease, I totally agree compared to the ST3. What I am disputing is it doesn't cruise hands off at 70kt as advertised by Airborne, (The way I interpret cruise is hands off) If it does or is meant to I'd like Airborne to tune my wing to do it at no cost to me as 13+K is alot of money to spend on something that doesn't do what it's claimed to do. Cheers Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Perhaps things have changed but back when ST1 was the only one available, there was a degree of individual performance depending on how the wing was tuned. Mine, for whatever reason was 55 hands off and stable wings level, yet Dieselten identified his was 48kts. Some of the others around when I flew were a bit slower than mine..... The only time I got a slower than 55kts IAS was in winter when I put the windscreen extension in place which created a bit more of a low pressure area behind the windscreen which is where pitot static is sampled at the back or the airspeed instrument and that in turn made indicated airspeed wrong.... Perhaps Im wrong but I would have thought 70kts or faster in an open cockpit would be pretty tiring and noisy after a bit of time, and in winter in the southern states a possible requirement for electrically heated suits/gloves.... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 ..What I am disputing is it doesn't cruise hands off at 70kt .. Correct. ..Perhaps Im wrong but I would have thought 70kts or faster in an open cockpit would be pretty tiring and noisy after a bit of time, and in winter in the southern states a possible requirement for electrically heated suits/gloves.... Andy With an S3 it is tiring, but not with an SST. My S3 hands off is about 56kn, so I generally cruise at 58-60, with just a little back pressure. Gets noisier above 75kn with the whistle of wind through the rigging. I've flown down to -6 air temperature and do find that I have to warm my hands from time to time by alternately sitting on one while I fly with the other. It helps if you keep your hands in the lee of the windscreen, but in low temperatures I double glove and wear plenty of warm clothes including long underwear. Haven't had the need of a freezer suit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Andy, my old streak 1 was the opposite to yours, and flew 5kt slower than everybody else. Back then, the sails were individually hand cut from patterns and did vary. Since then, Streak 2B onwards I think, they switched to laser cutting and the wings became much more consistent. IIRC, I used to get 55kt hands free @ 5,200rpm and 12 litres/hr two up (both slim). Safe Flying Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi how can I tell the difference between the old streak and streak 2b? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Hi how can I tell the difference between the old streak and streak 2b? Thanks. Jacko, 2B has no manual trimmer on the control frame. Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanks im looking at a wing at the moment and I'm told the frame is a streak 2 which it does have the manual trimmer and its been converted to a 2b with the new sail. Can this be done and is there a way to tell the difference in the sail of the old 2 and 2b? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Thanks im looking at a wing at the moment and I'm told the frame is a streak 2 which it does have the manual trimmer and its been converted to a 2b with the new sail. Can this be done and is there a way to tell the difference in the sail of the old 2 and 2b? Jacko, That i cannot help you with, best bet is ring airbornes factory and see it what your saying can be legally done with that wing. I sure as rocking horse do do wouldn't be strapping myself into it until I found out if it is still certified. Cheers Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Thanks alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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