old man emu Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Lots of times I have people contact me to source aircraft hardware and half my problem in supplying what they want is first trying to identify exactly what it is they want. For example, there are about 20 different types of screws used in aircraft. In each type there are up to six different diameters and thread sizes. After that there are up to 35 different lengths. Then you have to consider bolts, nuts, washers, rivets et cetera, et cetera and so forth. Then there is the problem of changes to the naming systems. For example, many parts formerly known under the AN system are now known under the MS or NAS systems. They are the exact same item, but with a new number. I often get asked for AN960 washers which ids the way that they are labelled on plans, but these are now known as NAS1149 washers. The next problem is the measurement system used. In general, aviation uses the foot/pound/second system. That means that measurements for aircraft hardware are given in inches, and 1/8th parts of an inch. That makes it hard to determine the diameter of bolts and screws, and the thread pitch if someone asks for an item that's "so many millimetres" in diameter, and so many millimetres in length. (If you have a European-built airplane, you are on your own. Just don't buy your nuts and bolts from you local hardware or motor parts shop. The quality might not be there.) So how do we overcome this problem? The answer is education. If you are going to tinker with your airplane you must get a working knowledge of the hardware classification system. But where do you get the information to teach yourself? When I first started my job as a storeman/salesman in aviation maintenance, I was given a book that contained all this information. Since then, I find I use the book several times each day to check the identification of hardware I am asked for. I couldn't operate without it. I call it my Bible. I don't have any hardcopies of the book, but I do have it in digital format. If you would like a copy, just email a request and your postal address to [email protected] and I'll mail you a copy. All I ask for it is $5, which covers the postage, the CD mailer box from Austpost, and the cost of the blank CD I will burn a copy to. Old Man Emu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 For example, many parts formerly known under the AN system are now known under the MS or NAS systems. They are the exact same item, but with a new number. I often get asked for AN960 washers which ids the way that they are labelled on plans, but these are now known as NAS1149 washers.Old Man Emu OME, I believe the manufacturing tolerances on the NAS1149 washers are tighter than the AN960 series, and they are not necessarily interchangeable. You can use a 1149 where a 960 is specified, but not always the other way around. This comes from the instructions that Vans have provided for the RV-12 that I'm building. rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted May 27, 2012 Author Share Posted May 27, 2012 The NAS1149 series has replaced the AN960 series in name only. I would agree that there has probably been an improvement in the quality of production of these washers since the 1940's, but you cannot buy recently manufactured AN960 washers. They might be labelled AN960, and if you asked me for AN960s I would know what you wanted, but you would be supplied with NAS1149s. What you have to consider is that the basic plans for your Van's airplane might have been drawn up before the change in nomenclature came in, and it was too expensive to go through all the drawings and documentation to change things on the plans. I can't explain why Vans would give such an instruction with their plans. You might be thinking of NAS bolts -v- AN bolts. What they say about interchanging can hold true. NAS bolts are stronger than AN bolts, so in some applications it is essential to0 use the type of bolt called up by the designer. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 If i needed for instance a few AN3-4a bolts and a few AN365 low temp lock nuts do i need your CD to cross match the part numbers to NAS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted May 28, 2012 Author Share Posted May 28, 2012 The AN3-4A bolts have not been renamed, but the locknuts are now called something else. AN365-(XXX)A is now MS21044N(XX), which is a locknut with a nylon lock insert, and therefore is low temperature AN365-(XXX)C is now MS21045-(XX), which is an all metal locknut for high temperature areas. I had to check my hardcopy of the CD for the information on the nuts. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks for sending me a copy of the CD it is an excellent reference manual that is very complete. Easy to use with the bookmarks, straight forward, removes any confusion and would save anyone much valuable time. Instead of searching through several different publications every piece of hardware is now on one CD. I recommend this to anyone be they working in the industry, building from kit, plans or for someone who would just like to know what is used in aircraft and it's purpose. Why are you giving it away for the price of postage only? it is priceless. Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 Well, I am charging $1.90 for the blank CD and for burning it! The hardcopy book I have of this CD is my most important tool in my job as a storeman/purchaser/on-seller of aircraft hardware. If it helps me, I reckon it will help everyone. If you really want me to make a profit and stay in business, you will purchase the Mechanics Toolbox and Aircraft Repair -- The Missing Manual. Of course, you can also buy hardware from me. I make a bob or two on that as well. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 OME, you know if you had a proper website you wouldn't have these issues, just need to include both part numbers in the stock description. Remember: the customer is always right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 The reason I crated this thread was to inform people that when ordering hardware they should use the current identification codes for the things they want. This is because a lot of the old identification codes have been superceded and are no longer recognised by suppliers. The CD I supply will show which old codes have been replaced and what the new codes are. Since the old codes are not recognised, it would be wrong to list both on a website. As for having a website, I haven't got the time to give to constant updating. Prices change with just about every delivery I receive, so I'd be forever updating the price list. This would be in addition to the update of my inventory sheets that I have to do with each delivery. Apart from providing a link to contact me, there's nothing more that a website would do to increase my sales. If people want to contact me, it's a simple matter to PM me from this forum, or my email address is posted in several places here. If there is anything I want to say that relates to maintenance or construction, I can always create a new thread and say what needs to be said there. As for the customer always being right - that's why I have a return policy that takes into account that people will sometimes order the wrong stuff, and will want to return it for the correct items. I find that most of my customers, and that includes people who make a living as aircraft maintenance people, don't know the identification codes of the items they want. More often than not, it's a case of "Can I have some of these?", and I've got to identify the item before I go pick it. Old Man Emu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 but my plans are 20yrs old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilot Pete Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Ìf you photocopy them now they will be new again................ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 but my plans are 20yrs old... That's why I have the hardware CD, so I can interpret the old part numbers. You should get one! OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I installed google, problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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