British Airways jet at Heathrow may have hit a drone

[Robbo]

A British Airways flight appears to have collided with a drone on a flight bound for London’s busy Heathrow Airport in what may be the first such incident involving a major airline.

 

The flight from Geneva, Switzerland to Heathrow, Europe’s busiest hub, is believed to have struck a drone, the London Metropolitan Police said in a statement. The plane landed safely following the incident, which occurred around 12:50pm local time.

 

The incident comes at a time of rising concern about drone misuse near commercial airlines.

 

British Airways said its engineers inspected the Airbus Group SE A320 airliner, found no damage, and cleared the plane to continue operating.

 

None of the 132 passengers and 5 crew on board the British Airways plane were hurt, an airline spokesman said.

 

Flight safety authorities have become increasingly anxious that the use of drones is becoming a hazard for aviation. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration last month said “reports of unmanned aircraft have increased dramatically since 2014.” The agency recorded more than 1,400 reports last year of drones coming close to planes.

 

Pilots flying into busy hubs such as New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport and La Guardia have reported drone sightings near the airfields. In 2014, the FAA said a remotely controlled aircraft came so close to a 50-seat regional jet the pilot reported to air-traffic control “he was sure he had collided with it.”

 

Drones, which used to be principally used by the military, have become ubiquitous, with increasing numbers of commercial operators and casual users. The price for some of the smallest vehicles has fallen sharply, making them easily affordable. Some smaller drones that are capable of flying high enough to interfere with air traffic retail for as little as a few hundred dollars.

 

FAA Administrator Michael Huerta said the agency was working to make drone operators use their aircraft safely, but added “we will take action against anyone who operates irresponsibly to the full extent of the law.”

 

The Metropolitan police said no arrests have been made and that it was continuing to investigate.

 

The suspected collision may not the first between an aircraft and a drone. Norwegian authorities last year said a small private aeroplane collided with what was suspected to have been a drone.

 

The UK Civil Aviation Authority said “it is totally unacceptable to fly drones close to airports and anyone flouting the rules can face severe penalties including imprisonment.”

 

The British Air Line Pilots Association has been warning for months the risk of a collision is mounting, calling for stricter rules for drone use and the registration of such aircraft. They also want manufacturers to build into drones systems that block them from being flown in areas where they could encounter commercial air traffic.

 

“It was only a matter of time before we had a drone strike given the huge numbers being flown around by amateurs who don’t understand the risks and the rules,” said BALPA flight safety specialist Steve Landells, adding “much more education of drone users and enforcement of the rules is needed to ensure our skies remain safe from this threat.”

 

Pilot groups also want regulators to finance tests to determine the extent of damage a drone could do to a plane. One safety officials said the lithium batteries that often power drones are highly flammable and could do serious damage to an airliner if sucked into its jet engine.

 

British legislators last year called for the tracking of all drone flights.

 

US regulators have allowed limited flights of small commercial drones by several thousand operators nationwide, under special exemptions from current prohibitions against such uses. But those exemptions are in effect only during the day and the operator must be able to see the drone.

 

Under pressure from industry and politicians, however, the Federal Aviation Administration in coming months plans to complete rules for widespread commercial uses of small unmanned aircraft.

 

At the same time, legislation making its way through Congress would set the stage for longer drone flights, eventually including some package deliveries.

 

US regulators in the past have reported numerous close calls between airliners and drones, including a few incidents where the distance was estimated to be barely dozens of yards.

 

Amid the growing controversy over drone flights, many safety experts, pilot unions and industry trade associations are promoting automated safeguards that would ensure drones can’t stray into airspace reserved for airports.

 

Compared with the FAA’s centralised approach, the European Aviation Safety Agency, Europe’s primary safety regulator, has been more willing to cede control over the smallest drones to individual national authorities. But as European politicians give the agency more sway over drone regulations, EASA chief Patrick Ky hopes to co-ordinate efforts with his American and Asian counterparts. “What I would like to do is have a global standard” on built-in drone safeguards to avoid airports and other sensitive airspace, he said in an interview last year, adding the goal is to avoid “a patchwork of national legislation that is starting to create problems.”

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wall-street-journal/british-airways-jet-at-heathrow-may-have-hit-a-drone/news-story/6ecdb93da27d767ba3d2157175411235

 

 

[Teckair]

A British Airways flight appears to have collided with a drone on a flight bound for London’s busy Heathrow Airport in what may be the first such incident involving a major airline.The flight from Geneva, Switzerland to Heathrow, Europe’s busiest hub, is believed to have struck a drone, the London Metropolitan Police said in a statement. The plane landed safely following the incident, which occurred around 12:50pm local time.

Yeah more BS. I don't blame them for being worried about irresponsible operators but making up crap just undermines their credibility. From my experience model operators are a bigger risk and the drone stuff is mostly paranoia.

 

 

[dutchroll]

And this is why we can't have nice things.

 

Just when authorities are mulling over how much they should regulate, some idiot flies something in a major airport flight path which hits a passenger jet.

 

 

[Robbo]

Yeah more BS

You were there were you?

 

Sorry I was not aware you were there

 

Your basically doing exactly what they are doing but the opposite.

 

(Remember they are saying "may have" obviously they have some evidence)

 

 

[Teckair]

You were there were you?Sorry I was not aware you were there

It would not make any difference if I was there or not I would not have seen it. You don't have to be there to know that most of the reported drone sightings are pretty much impossible.

 

Your basically doing exactly what they are doing but the opposite.

I disagree I am not making anything up.

 

(Remember they are saying "may have" obviously they have some evidence)

Don't you think if they had any evidence we would have heard about it?

 

obviously they don't have some evidence would be far more likely. I have never seen any evidence to back up these sort of claims. There was a video clip which was revealed as a fake. I am not in favor of drones putting manned aircraft at risk but this world of BS we now live in is really annoying. On the news recently the CEO of Australia Post said drones will be delivering mail as soon as the end of the year, more BS. If that were true you really would have something to worry about.

 

 

[Robbo]

It would not make any difference if I was there or not I would not have seen it. You don't have to be there to know that most of the reported drone sightings are pretty much impossible.

 

I disagree I am not making anything up.

 

Don't you think if they had any evidence we would have heard about it?

 

obviously they don't have some evidence would be far more likely. I have never seen any evidence to back up these sort of claims. There was a video clip which was revealed as a fake. I am not in favor of drones putting manned aircraft at risk but this world of BS we now live in is really annoying. On the news recently the CEO of Australia Post said drones will be delivering mail as soon as the end of the year, more BS. If that were true you really would have something to worry about.

You just said it yourself "You don't have to be there to know that most of the reported drone sightings are pretty much impossible."

 

This could be the first, just because previous ones have turned out false you cant just rule it out based on previous reports, That's like saying nothing will go wrong with this plane as this model has never had any problems!

 

 

[Teckair]

You just said it yourself "You don't have to be there to know that most of the reported drone sightings are pretty much impossible."This could be the first, just because previous ones have turned out false you cant just rule it out based on previous reports, thats like saying I won't have a crash because I haven't yet.

What ever floats your boat.

 

 

[Teckair]

You just said it yourself "You don't have to be there to know that most of the reported drone sightings are pretty much impossible."This could be the first, just because previous ones have turned out false you cant just rule it out based on previous reports, That's like saying nothing will go wrong with this plane as this model has never had any problems!

Now you are contradicting yourself.

 

 

[facthunter]

Never underestimate the idiocy of idiots. Millions of years ago they would be eaten in the forest and not reproduce. Nev

 

 

[Robbo]

What ever floats your boat.

You seem to think it will never happen...

Drones are cheap as hell now, I even saw a 8 year old kid flying one on Sunbury road near Tullamarine not long ago. Remember this aircraft was coming in for a landing so it was probably under 1,000 feet and could be easily seen if it hits you on the nose!!

 

I guess you don't fly jet's so would not really have the understanding.

 

 

[Teckair]

Never underestimate the idiocy of idiots. Millions of years ago they would be eaten in the forest and not reproduce. Nev

And now we protect them from themselves resulting in the world we now have.

 

 

[facthunter]

That point could be made. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

I guess you don't fly jet's so would not really have the understanding.

True I do not. How fast is a jet on final? About 150 knts would be my guess. Even if you knew where to look to spot and identify a small usually white object as it flashes past would be a mean feat.

 

You seem to think it will never happen....

Nope never thought or said that.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I sometimes get the feeling that the media are of the view that flying a drone accidentally or on purpose into a commercial aircraft would be simple......I suspect that in reality is far from the truth!

 

I also get that commercial pilots would be worried about this...but given the choice of hitting a drone or a larger Raptor of some sorts I'll take the drone every time....but eveytime would happily choose neither

 

 

[Robbo]

True I do not. How fast is a jet on final? About 150 knts would be my guess.

Landing speed depends on the config but roughly 130-135 for an A320.

 

 

[Teckair]

Landing speed depends on the config but roughly 130-135 for an A320.

OK I still believe you would have to have special abilities to spot and identify a small object going past at that speed. I don't reckon you would see one even if it hit your windscreen. I can understand why some pilots are concerned about this but what do you want? ban the sale of drones? The only practical way I can think of to deal with the problem is to have serious laws and penalties about the use of them and police them. If you saw someone doing the wrong thing then clearly the problem could be addressed.

 

 

[Yenn]

Havn't you ever seen a bird flash by? I often see birds the size of magpies as I cruise at 150knots. It is just the flash of something moving at an odd angle that attracts the eye.

 

 

[Teckair]

Havn't you ever seen a bird flash by? I often see birds the size of magpies as I cruise at 150knots. It is just the flash of something moving at an odd angle that attracts the eye.

Good for you. Yeah probably drones you are seeing.

 

 

[dutchroll]

And now we protect them from themselves resulting in the world we now have.

Not really.

We try to protect the rest of the population from their idiocy. This even strikes to the heart of such topics as safety helmets and so on. If they smash their own head in through stupidity, so what? But there's a bigger picture out there involving the rest of us paying for emergency services, paramedics, hospitals, insurance premiums, and all manner of other stuff which costs us dearly because of their stupidity.

 

As I said......this is why we can't have nice things.

 

Drones in 4 near misses at major UK airports:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/drones-near-misses-major-uk-airports-heathrow-stansted

 

 

[Bats]

So far the evidence in this one appears to be the pilot's report that he thinks he hit a drone. From personal experience of looking for one that I knew was out there at well below 100kts, I'd be very impressed if a pilot could positively identify the average little white/black drone at typical airliner approach speeds. The media, ably assisted by a certain element of the pilot body will no doubt persist in their claims, whatever the facts may prove to be.

 

 

[dutchroll]

I have on numerous occasions clearly identified a bird in near misses on takeoff and final approach, in a large passenger jet, from the cockpit. In most cases both of us positively identify it, right down to approximate size, the flapping wings, the head, the colour, which direction it was heading, etc. You might be surprised what a clear view or snapshot you can get, even at takeoff and final approach speeds.

 

Airline pilots, with a few exceptions, are generally not blithering idiots who go around making stuff up.

 

 

[JEM]

Watch this video by CASA to understand CASAs rules for Au drone ops. (Video previously posted on another thread by FT)

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=481323502060676

 

Note that the public are told to keep drones down to 400 feet in controlled airspace. I wonder if a member of the public would even know where controlled airspace is or even estimate heights of 400 feet.

 

 

[Teckair]

But there's a bigger picture out there involving the rest of us paying for emergency services, paramedics, hospitals, insurance premiums, and all manner of other stuff which costs us dearly because of their stupidity.

I fully agree.

 

As I said......this is why we can't have nice things.

You have a Pitts, I think they are nice.

 

Drones in 4 near misses at major UK airports:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/29/drones-near-misses-major-uk-airports-heathrow-stansted

Maybe, but there are RC model aircraft there which is a known problem which should be dealt with but is not, your average battery powered drone someone got for Christmas will not be cruising at 8000 ft.

 

 

[Teckair]

Airline pilots, with a few exceptions, are generally not blithering idiots who go around making stuff up.

I am not calling anybody a blithering idiot I think there are genuine concerns and people are trying to get something done the best way they know how, you don't have to be a blithering idiot to make something up if you think you have a just cause and the end justifies the means. That sort of stuff goes on all the time.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Well.....I'd argue that an airline pilot would be an idiot to make up a story about nearly being hit by a drone when no such incident happened. I really would.

 

That sort of stuff goes on all the time.

I'd suggest that it doesn't go on "all the time" unless it's part of your job to tell tall stories, and it certainly doesn't go on all the time with professional aviators. If they said it was a drone which hit them, then it was most probably a drone which hit them. If it was actually a sparrow or something, then so be it. I think it's likely they could tell the difference. In the case of near misses, if they couldn't clearly recall what it was, they would probably think it was a bird and not report it, as often happens.