Adrian Lewer Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 i have a bit of venting to do and need someone to give me an outside view... this is sort of an extension to the thread BRENT has started punnishment fitting the crime ECT... i have been doing my training at ballarat. i have seen some real crappy displays of airmanship and unfortunately all from GA pilots. i have seen a twin try to land with the wheels up on RWY 18 seen a 152 backtrack RWY 23 behind a citation and then sit behind it whilst it departed then departed just as the citation was rotating... been on short final and had an aircraft enter my runway RWY 36 so had to abbort and go around they did not even give radio calls landed on RWY 36 full stop and had a 152 try to do an intersection departure towards me whilst backtracking RWY 36 had another aircraft enter RWY 36 whilst i was Taxing RWY 36 been on crosswind and just after a touch and go on RWY 36 gave call for down wind and lifted wing to have a look (as ya do) and saw the other aircraft which called down wind RWY 36 but the problem was he was about 100 ft off my nose coming towards me and we had to take avasive action.. the only plus with this one was the other pilot admitted he was not shure of the airport,was very appologetic and re joined the circuit in the right direction. seen an aircraft taxi at about 35KTS ok i have vented... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marius Grobler Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Hey man...I think you'd be safer in Chinchilla! House next door's for rent Seriously, it sounds like (amongst other things) a pure lack of communication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 i have seen some real crappy displays of airmanship and unfortunately all from GA pilots. Are you familiar with reportable incidents? Report these types of things to CASA and help weed out the cowboys. We are all better of with less of them, GA, RAA or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 yes true i should start keeping a log of it, i will from now on. i am not a dobber though but having said that when i fly for fun i need to keep alive as do the rest of us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marius Grobler Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 yes true i should start keeping a log of it, i will from now on. i am not a dobber though but having said that when i fly for fun i need to keep alive as do the rest of us... Ditto! I have no first hand experience of this but the common wisdom is that fun is much more fun when you are on the right side of the lawn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ramcam Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I say he who casts the first stone, let them be none but pure. MOTHER!!!! Okay lets be honest. Who has not made one mistake out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I think everyone has made a mistake but if it is as bad as Adrian says then something needs to be done before some one gets seriously hurt. And in my books this is not dobbing, it is self preservation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 seen an aircraft taxi at about 35KTS Whats the taxi speed limit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pecram air Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Taxi Speed I was taught to taxi at a fast walk speed. Phil C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 In the GA world, taxi speed is defined as a speed that if the brakes on the aircraft fail whilst the engine is running the aircraft will gracefully come to a stop on it's own in a timely fashion, so realistically a fast walking pace, however that's in a world of Cessna's where brakes aren't required to stop the aircraft whilst the engine is running, so not appropriate for RA entirely as most will still zoom along with engine at idle and no brakes. A good speed is the most appropriate one for the conditions. When away from buildings and aircraft I taxi much faster and if I'm backtracking depending on traffic and runway length I could hit 40 knots. A Kingair or large twin due to economics may taxi at speeds at over 40 knots to get away for a faster takeoff. There would have to be very few risks at a medium speed taxi on a runway, however a taxiway is a place to keep it slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Talking about idiots. have you seen the latest Pacific Flyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 LOL, I always thought that slow taxi speeds were a flying school revenue raising scheme - Student pays for engine VDO time; Flying school pays for maintenance off the airswitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Careful Adrian! Everyone makes mistakes. It doesn't sound like these were intentionally made to ruin your day. Plenty of experienced people have landed with the gear up. People in 152s are most likely to be pretty low time students who are still using a fair bit of effort to fly the aeroplane and may lack awareness. People sometimes get radio frequencies wrong, or have the wrong radio selected. By all means lodge incident reports, but it might also pay to have a friendly chat to the people concerned. Maybe they will learn something from you. Maybe have a talk to the flying school's CFI about some of the incidents to see if training can be improved. It sounds as though you are very aware and looking out, which will keep you out of trouble! Maybe try to anticipate what the perceived idiots might do and keep that in mind. Could that aircraft at the holding point taxi out in front of you? Possibly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Standards. AS mazda says, you are in a training environment, But there has to be a limit with the overall situation where you may feel that the standard has dropped too far. To approach the schools concerned would be appropriate. Whether you consider yourself a "dobber" will be your own judgement, but you do have a certain obligation. You must maintain your own personal vigilance too, as you will never have a situation where the unexpected (by definition) may not happen to you. As examples; 707 pulls onto runway at SY (Garuda) when I am at about 200' on final, also ML at about the same height, tower accidently turns off all approach and runway lights, ( and this is in the BEST aviation environment that you can hope for), so it can always happen. Nev... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brentc Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I usually go the route of speaking with the CFI or instructor if it was a pre licence student. Fairly often instructors ring our airfield and tell us that there's a student coming across for a prec search or landing etc. Quite often they do something stupid when they come in, so I take great delight in calling the instructor back and telling him what the student did wrong. It makes for a very bright faced student when he finds out that someone has been spying on him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest airsick Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Sounds like a guy that was learning in Archerfield when I started flying. He had to do a solo nav somewhere but he was nervous and concerned he wouldn't make it. He planned the trip and worked out the times and so forth but then did a short hop to a nearby field somewhere and just ran the engine. A local guy recognised the plane and called the school to find out why one of their planes was sitting on the taxi way with its engine running so long. The guy got back, told every one the flight went fine, filled in his log book, etc. before someone questioned him. He was red faced when he realised he had been busted. Not sure how he planned to explain the difference between tach time and airswitch time though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazda Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Oh Airsick, that's a classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 i do realize people make mistakes this is why i have not taken the time to lodge reports. 2 of the people i have seen doing these things are relative high time pilots who i know and would only look at me like a dickhead (being a new student) if i approach them even in the most positive manner, that method is best left alone, next method is "dobbing" them in which just creates paper work and you end up looking like a winger to the RAA (but this is my prefered method as it is the correct procedure) as it might send a propper message. my main concern is not the wheels up, or reverse circuits they are genuine mistakes but taxing to a point of where you are almost airborne and skating on the taxiway is un acceptable and my instructor witnessed it and we both watched as we thought he had mistaken the taxiway as a RWY; entering an active RWY with aircraft on it taxing towards the taxiway to exit, then turning to face that aircraft (being me) blocking the taxiway, taxing behind a citation (jet) in a 152, these are just stupid stupid mistakes, the aircraft coming towards me was a wakeup (a big one) but it was a genuine mistake maybe the pilot was just disorientated, he was very appologetic and corrected his actions. now for my navs who has a great hiding spot for me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 IMHO, the most dangerous pilot you will find at any airfield, is the one, that after they finnish their training, does less then ten hours a year of flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOSGcentral Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 HPD - Not quite mate! Statistically there are two prime danger areas. The immediate 'I am free of these bloody instuctors' phase where they believe they know it all. Then the 100-200 hour phase where they are CONVINCED that they know it all! The passage through these phases is founded on the quality of initial instructing that has forged an airman who understands there is a constant need to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 I say he who casts the first stone, let them be none but pure. MOTHER!!!!Okay lets be honest. Who has not made one mistake out there Ramcam, " He who has made no mistakes, has never made anything. " I know I`m going to get BLASTED for this,but, " A miss is as good as a mile". Cheers, Frank. Better to be down here wishing you were up there than to be up there wishing you were down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 the quality of initial instructing that has forged an airman who understands there is a constant need to learn So true Tony Knowing your long and involved participation of training pilots, I will have to put my assessment of what is 'the most dangerous pilot' in second place to yours. I will say though, that I'm not too far behind - exibit A; my insurers seem to have a fixation on my total flying hours and my annual hours, even to the degree of asking how many hours flying I have done in the last three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 exibit A; my insurers seem to have a fixation on my total flying hours and my annual hours, even to the degree of asking how many hours flying I have done in the last three months. High Plains Drifter, Tell your Insurers that if your flying you`re not crashing and if you`re not flying they still have nothing to worry about. Just Kidding. Cheers, Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Tell your Insurers that if your flying you`re not crashing and if you`re not flying they still have nothing to worry about I'd love to Frank, they may get a bit stroppy with me though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Its true..evryone does balls up from time to time..The other day i saw a guy join upwind in a rapid inverted dive from overfly height.. I reckon if you see something thats blatantly dangerous then talk to the dude, and if not happy with the response, report em.. I would like any pilot to chip me if they saw me doing anything dumb.. Its pride in front of peers i think that will keep things safe. On a similar note, i was in the cct at cn the other day.. A 172 was doing cct's so wide that they were halfway to mayfield (thats a long way away) on downwind.. The instr got the cranks up when we turned base in front of him, he was on base but miles away.. I asked him why he was doing such wide cct's.. he said that its the standard size for a 172.. Funnily there was a 172 behind us and another one in front of us (not the guy in question)..we all seemed to have the same size cct's going on... i pittied the poor guy paying 280 buks an hour to do 4 cct's cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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