gofastclint Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Setting up a production run to assemble light aircraft is out of the price range of the average flyer; what IS in the price range is a jig for something like the wings or the fuselage. How hard would it be to get a group of people together with the intentions of getting planes built just to go flying? Tom could build the wings, Dick could build the landing gear and Harry the fuselage. it all comes down to being naughty at school; who wrote "I must do what teacher says"?? nobody, we all wrote a line of "I's" down the page I I I I as you get the 50 lines done much faster. Have a look at the lazer Z-200, my favorite aircraft, I bet it would be much eaiser and cheaper to make 20 sets of hoizontal stabilizers than to build the whole plane. for larger items like the wings have a team of 5 building them. Not only are we Aussies we are flying brothers and sisters, I guarentee if something like this took off alot of good friendships would be made. I would rather see 20+ aircraft in the air than see one dodgy half finished scratch built in the shed. I want a show of hands of how many people would be interested in such an idea? From there i will organise a meeting so we can all sit, eat and have a chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Ker Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I would love the challenge and joy of building and flying my own aircraft - and there's the rub regarding your proposal. If I wanted to fly (and could afford to do so, I'd buy an aircraft). If I want the challenge of building, I'd want to build the whole thing. That way I know what's been done and I'm responsible for the end product. Building just a part might be more efficient, but it doesn't sound very exciting or interesting. Also, how do I know the standard that others have worked to, or how would they know to what standard I have built to? The other issue is whether such a process would be in conflict with the 51% build rule? Maybe the idea has more merit applied at a club level and I think there are many examples of people pitching in together to build one aircraft. Just my thoughts, be interested to see if anything further comes of your idea. Mathew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think it's a pretty good idea to me...that's how the Jabiru is made, all sub contractors making different parts of the acft. I think the only draw back would be the engine, that's the expensive part of an acft, but thats only my thoughts....making the actual airframe wouldn't be all that hard i don't think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 That's it, team work. and if the whole thing is inspected by an engineer and welded by competent people it would work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 You looking to set up something like the Dawn Patrol gofastclint ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 You looking to set up something like the Dawn Patrol gofastclint ? I actually haven't seen that movie, but what sort of scheme did they have going? I looked it up on wiki only to have the summery "The story revolves around the pilots and crew of an RFC airbase, who deal with the stress of combat primarily through nightly bouts of heavy drinking" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest High Plains Drifter Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 nightly bouts of heavy drinking Theres probably a bit of that but no, i'm showing my age - a few years back there were a few magazine articals about a group of yanks building replica VW powered Neuports which they flew as a group called the Dawn Patrol. I'll see if i can find a link to the story :) The link - http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/about.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Now hears an idea for an engine...http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/05/motorcycle-engine-powered-airplanes/ They can handle the rev's, air cooled. You don't have use a Harley engine like in that link.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Now hears an idea for an engine...http://http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/03/05/motorcycle-engine-powered-airplanes/ They can handle the rev's, air cooled. You don't have use a Harley engine like in that link.... hey Tomo, i cant get through to the site. can you give me some key words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was talking about building kits with someone the other day, like an RV-8. He suggested you should always build two: when you have done one step on the first aircraft, immediately also do it on the second, which will be much faster and probably slightly better too. That way, one aircraft might take 1000 hours but the two together only 1300-1400. You finish and fly the first for a while, then sell it, probably for 40-50K more than you paid. That gives you enough to buy the parts to finish a/c number two, which you keep for yourself. Sounds like a reasonable plan, if you can afford two kits and have the space. Of course your plan scales this up even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 hey Tomo, i cant get through to the site. can you give me some key words. It's here. He had an extra http:// in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 here[/url]. He had an extra http:// in it. Whoops:blush:...Thanks for sorting that out Slarti,:thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I was talking about building kits with someone the other day, like an RV-8. Vans sells the kits in sections, so it would be quite possible to do it that way. What i don't like is that Vans ship their kits from Asia where they are made to the states and then out to other countries. Adding massivly to the final cost. I would like to know how much an rv-8 would cost in Australia complete with avionics, paint and engine. As for the laser z-200, its still my dream plane, and can be found in sections from subcontractors. Of course with the Aussie dollar the way it is, the states just doesn't seem to be a good option right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antzx6r Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 That way, one aircraft might take 1000 hours but the two together only 1300-1400. There was an article in Flying magazine about a couple of mates building RV9As for themselves. One went all out spending US$100k and the other only US$30k. But the point I'm thinking of is given the above, if you have a good mate that wants the same (or similar) aircraft you can split the cost. Two work more than double the speed of one. (Provided you keep your minds on the job at hand) And you build it in less than 700 hrs each. The only outstanding factor is you still need to find the space for two kits side by side. I'm not sure if you would need to go into any bigger production than that to get the time down. My point being that two would bring a large percentage of the time down three would bring it down a lesser percentage than two. And four a lesser percentage again. Plus the confusion factor will be raised the more cooks (Ha ha... I almost spelled that slightly wrong. But that fits too. ) you have in the kitchen. And then with the 51% rule, you actually need to document with pictures the process you went through. That would get harder the bigger the production. Up there for aussie ingenuity though. :thumb_up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basscheffers Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I would like to know how much an rv-8 would cost in Australia complete with avionics, paint and engine. They have a "cost estimator" on their website, which seems reasonable. Add some more shipping, exchange rate and GST and I would guess an finished RV-8 with a used engine would set you back about A$120K for the quick build kit. That seems pretty good value for a plane with that kind of performance! What other kits like it are out there? The Glassairs looks nice, but a bit on the squeezy side for a big bloke... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antzx6r Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 The mustang II looks significantly cheaper and it has great performance and style. I don't know if their builder support and ease of construction is the same as Vans. They claim around 1000hrs but you know what claims are like... I think the reason there are not as many around is simply that Vans have marketed themselves really well. Does anyone know any mustang builders or know what the kit is like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 WOW I love the idea and would love to talk further on this. Just an idea what about the Rand KR Series Aircraft. there is the KR 1 which is a single seat and the KR 2 which obviously is a 2 seat. a friend is building the KR 1 but has slightly modified the fuzz to be a bit wider. Looks easy enough to build but it is a daunting task for me. But if we had the manpower and tooling we could make these like a production line. KR Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here she is... %5Bimg%5Dhttp%3A//img65.imageshack.us/img65/3157/marcelpz0.jpg By adrianlewer at 2009-01-15[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Oh yeah and you can build this thing for around the $15,000 mark not including Engine, So around the $30,000 including a Jabiru 2.2. My mate has Used Certified wood, made everything himself and he estimates it will cost him all up (not including engine as he has a J 1.6 on hand) around the $8-10K mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Two people I know who have built Mustang IIs and still very happy with them many years later. An earlier generation of instrumentation and systems. All those I know with the RVs are also very happy. I've flown both and I won't make any recommendations as to which is better as my choice is also the Laser. As for the laser z-200, its still my dream plane The Laser is just so nice to fly and easy to land. Goes where you point it. I had several party tricks in it:- multiple rolls, alternating aileron & snaps - vertical line, at the speed where you'd normally hit the rudder for a stall turn, ease the stick forward and point it horizontal then hold the stick all the way back to hold it there, way below the stall speed , sit and wait until it accelerates, unstalls and continues to fly away S&L I've observed various combinations of groups and partnerships and two people sharing the effort in building two aeroplanes. Rarely seen success - as is often the case when more than one person is involved - differing opinions on how to do stuff, different availability, different levels of motivation, different levels of effort & money put in - over a period of time just results in arguments and friends no more. Worth a try as there are benefits all round, just make allowances for when/if things go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 One of the great things that has developed over the last 50 years with the EAA Chapters is that the members now have access to a large inventory of tooling and jigging for just about any kit or plansbuilt aircraft. you could knock hundreds of hours off a metal fuse and wings with the right jigs. having a heap of friends over to help almost drew a near rewrite by the FAA on the 51% rule. Working with one aircraft being built one step behind means you can save a bit on things you need like clecos,hand and power tools. Lots of little savings building more than one at a time that are not immeadiatley apparent. Finding a team that can work together might be a bit harder to source. Ozzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Here she is...%5Bimg%5Dhttp%3A//img65.imageshack.us/img65/3157/marcelpz0.jpg By adrianlewer at 2009-01-15[/img] I really like the look of this plane, but I feel that my flying will eventually progress into aerobatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Yep this is true, i am not sure if this plane is aerobatic BUT is would be cheap...... What sort of plane are you thinking of ?I am very interested in this project but would be limited by funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Lewer Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Hi Mathew, Maybe hire a factory for a period of time say 2 months and everybody get together for that time and just build......... (hey i will pay for the factory ). Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gofastclint Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Laser Z-200 Aerobatic Aircraft Have a look through some of these pics. Laser Z-200 in the shed with a touring wing for far away fly-ins, yeah... that would do me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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